Why would I even consider buying an ipad, ipod or iphone?

[accguy9009]

So on and so forth.

Let's be real here - the only reason you created this thread was to call out apple, as specifically noted NUMEROUS TIMES in your OP + title. After several members call you out on this, you try to weasel out of it by saying "this is the thread"

You didn't call out other OEM's until post 35. You were called out on post 2.

I originally created this thread, as I have previously stated, after reading the stories on Daily Tech about the issues at Foxxconns plant. I knew how large Foxxcon was then and I knew they made all kinds of stuff for just about everyone. I also knew that most of the hottest stuff out there being made today are the idevices. Lets be honest there isn't much buzz out there for Dell or HP stuff. Apple has more clout right now then just about any OEM. If you want to change what happens at the mfg facility the guy who orders the most stuff has more influence. People here are fixated on the fact that I don't love and worship Apple like they do. I don't really care much for Dell either but that is beside the point. The point is people are dying. Conditions for workers are horrible. Apple supposedly wants to change this. Did they do enuf? A new report was on Daily tech today about another death and another beating, allegedly, by the Foxxconn thugs. If people are still dying then not enough was done. Apple is supposedly the smartest guy in the room. They could have asked for better working conditions at the plants the same way a chef only orders free range chickens or buys sustainable seafood. Apple apparently did not care enuf to dictate the conditions for the workers. This is hard to reasonably debate. Others are guilty as well.
Do the others act as corporate thugs the way Apple operates their business? They spout how "green" a company they are while workers are dying in their contractors mfg facilities. Doesn't this hypocracy bother anyone else? Because it pisses me off. Don't serve me organic vegetables after sprinkling MSG all over them.

 

[ismay]

I get what you're saying OP, but I think that you're blaming the wrong people and being a little myopic in your perspective.

You say that Apple has a fiduciary duty vis-a-vis its subcontractor's workers. Do you know what a fiduciary duty is? It is a legal duty to put the interests of another ahead of one's own. I can think of no place that would impose such a duty on a party bidding a manufacturing contract for reasons discussed below.

Apple may have a *moral* obligation to see that the workers of those with whom it contracts treat those workers fairly, but certainly they have no legal obligation to do so.
But if they have that moral obligation, is it more moral if manufacturer X pulls out of its contract because of working conditions at the factory, forcing these workers off the job and back to whatever existence that they had before getting the gig at Foxconnn? And if there were other employment opportunities that were better that were available to these workers, my guess is that the Foxconn workers would be there instead of at Foxconn.

My point is that a company may be able to insist on marginal changes, but that is about the limit of its influence. It is just not realistic to assume that Apple, HP, Microsoft or any other company can unilaterally will these workers into what you and I would call acceptable working conditions. But does that mean that these companies should boycott, and make things worse for the very people you seek to help?

And don't ignore that from your perspective, the people that are also blameworthy are the consumers who insist on buying products at the lowest possible prices without regard to the working conditions in which those products are produced. If we all collectively cared as much about the working conditions in the plants that make the products, we'd probably be willing to pay more for them to be made in plants where people are treated better. But collectively, we don't. If you want the companies to care about the issue, the market has to care about the issue. Until then, it's just not realistic to expect the companies that contract for goods made under less than what we consider good circumstances are going to hurt themselves in the marketplace and hurt the local workers by insisting that the goods be produced at a higher cost in plants with better conditions while competitors undersell them because they are continuing to use plants that do not meet our idea of perfect working conditions. '

Again, I'm not in disagreement with your objectives. I wish everyone could live and work in great conditions and without hardships. But until the world reaches a consensus standard of living and wage parity, decisions will have to be made on the basis of choosing between the lesser of many evils, not on whether some region's standards meet those of a different region where a different economic reality exists. My guess is that the people who work in these plants are there because, as bad as we think it may be, they believe that the opportunity there is better than anything else available to them.

 

[mugs]

I originally created this thread, as I have previously stated, after reading the stories on Daily Tech about the issues at Foxxconns plant. I knew how large Foxxcon was then and I knew they made all kinds of stuff for just about everyone. I also knew that most of the hottest stuff out there being made today are the idevices. Lets be honest there isn't much buzz out there for Dell or HP stuff. Apple has more clout right now then just about any OEM. If you want to change what happens at the mfg facility the guy who orders the most stuff has more influence. People here are fixated on the fact that I don't love and worship Apple like they do. I don't really care much for Dell either but that is beside the point. The point is people are dying. Conditions for workers are horrible. Apple supposedly wants to change this. Did they do enuf? A new report was on Daily tech today about another death and another beating, allegedly, by the Foxxconn thugs. If people are still dying then not enough was done. Apple is supposedly the smartest guy in the room. They could have asked for better working conditions at the plants the same way a chef only orders free range chickens or buys sustainable seafood. Apple apparently did not care enuf to dictate the conditions for the workers. This is hard to reasonably debate. Others are guilty as well.
Do the others act as corporate thugs the way Apple operates their business? They spout how "green" a company they are while workers are dying in their contractors mfg facilities. Doesn't this hypocracy bother anyone else? Because it pisses me off. Don't serve me organic vegetables after sprinkling MSG all over them.

Where did you get the idea that anyone cares if you love Apple? People are calling you out for being a hypocrite because you are a hypocrite.

Also, if you did a little research you'd find that the suicide rate in China is five times higher than the suicide rate at that Foxconn plant (based on the reported 7 suicides in 4 1/2 months). You're criticizing Apple when you should be criticizing China.

 

[PricklyPete]

If I have ever seen a troll thread...this is it.

 

[accguy9009]

If It Walks Like A Duck, Talks Like A Duck, Looks Like A Duck, Is It Really A Duck?

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=18494

"Apple's own internal audit said that child labor was being used to manufacture Apple products or components for Apple products (without Apple's knowledge) at some partners. The report did not name the company/companies involved, so it is impossible to know whether Foxconn (Apple's largest supplier) was involved.

Apple claims that it is taking steps to address the situation and has terminated contracts with some suppliers. Obviously it has not, and cannot practically, give Foxconn the boot, without massive financial impact.

Is Apple a positive example for reporting these problems, when many of its peers (Microsoft, Dell, Nintendo, etc -- who all have motherboards built by Foxconn) reportedly cast a blind eye to them? Or is it setting a poor example by allowing this kind of activity in the first place (due to negligent supervision) while at the same time preaching a moralistic higher ground (such as Apple CEO Steve Jobs recent moralistic rant on porn)?

That issue is open to debate, and I'm sure many of you have opinions in both directions".

Jason Mick, Daily Tech

"And don't ignore that from your perspective, the people that are also blameworthy are the consumers who insist on buying products at the lowest possible prices without regard to the working conditions in which those products are produced". ismay

When have consumers been able to buy products from Apple at low prices? Apple has huge margins on its hardware.

 

[MotionMan]

If It Walks Like A Troll, Talks Like A Troll, Looks Like A Troll, Is It Really accguy9009?

Fixed.

MotionMan

 

[accguy9009]

Fixed.

MotionMan

MotionMan, I noticed you recently reviewed my public profile here, lol. Hopefully you found what you were looking for.

 

[MotionMan]

MotionMan, I noticed you recently reviewed my public profile here, lol. Hopefully you found what you were looking for.

I was hoping you had listed your therapist's phone number, but no such luck.

MotionMan

 

[KeypoX]

I think the companies should be held responsible. But china doesnt care as long as they are getting them dollars.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Reported - Troll Thread