why we should increase overdraft fees

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Lepard

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: her209
Fuck that. Make it illegal for them to reorder transactions.

This.

I think this is what people are referring to, in case some of you haven't figured it out:


Account balance: $50.

5pm get $10 in gas for the lawnmower, use debit card
6pm $5 for a 6-pack at the convenience store to have a beer or two after mowing lawn
7pm 15 dollars in gas on the way home
8pm spend $70 at the grocery store


Next day: bank does this:
sees all 5 of those transactions.
debits account $70 first, putting the account into over draft. $30 fee
$10 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$5 charge goes into overdraft $30 fee
$25 goes into overdraft $30 fee


You look at your account balance, freaking out because you realize you forgot to deposit the $100. You expect to see the $70 put your account $50 into overdraft, and expect to see a $30 overdraft fee, making you owe the bank $80. Instead, you find that you owe the bank a hell of a lot more than that.

Who do you bank with that CASH is not available immediately?

It's never mattered to me, but I recall seeing signs that say "deposits received after 2pm credited the next day.

Nonetheless, let's suppose a customer DOES make a mistake. I removed the deposit from the above example. That's exactly what banks are doing. The only thing that should have gone into overdraft is the $70 spent at the store. Instead, the bank rearranges the order of the debits so that it can charge the fee 4 times instead of just once.

Read through the revised example above. I have absolutely no problem with banks that charge a fee to someone who pays something 3 days before a deposit, or 2 days, or even 1 day before the deposit. But rearranging the order of debits intentionally so that they can maximize the amount that they penalize customers ought to be criminal.

OK, but what bank delays posting of cash deposits? Checks and ATM deposits I can understand. But AFAIK all banks credit cash immediately.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

Which bank and credit union?

Wachovia, USBank and a local CU here. Also Chase and Commerce Bank post credits first, then debits. Those are the three big banks I know for sure.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Here is an idea....Banks start bouncing your checks....like rent and food....that way you end up playing a shit load more and have your credit score dinged.....or you can pay an overdraft fee...lol idiots.

I don't use checks. If I were to use a debit card with $0 balance (rather than charged such that I'd be hit with an overdraft fee), it would be rejected on the spot, and I'd pull out a credit card.

Regardless, I think we can agree that I should at least be able to make the choice as to which system I'd use.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: James Bond

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I cannot believe there could be a person on the face of the earth so pathetic as to overdraft an account because he confused it with another. My God, don't you realize your opinion isn't worth dirt?

Talk about a warning label! How is: 'I am a blithering idiot, please listen to me."

Oh, yeah, sure I will.

Uhh, serious? What is so "pathetic" about that? People make mistakes all the time.

I have several checking accounts, some with the same banks. I, personally, have written a check from the wrong checkbook and realized later.

Why don't you step outside for a change and relax.

he's either got something personal against me, or a huge splintery stick up his ass.

Shooom!

You can't take MB at face value! There's always an underlying message.

Probably not much of a message if nobody gets it, I guess. The OP is critiquing a critic of congress regarding their criticism of banks so I thought the world should see the value of my two cents. I felt that with such great examples I should be as critical as I could. I mean, after all, isn't the whole point just to bitch in your moment in the sun. And who on earth would listen to some crap like, maybe the banks should charge the customer what it costs them in reality to handle the overdraft instead of acting like spiders feeding on flies. That way you wouldn't get off free for not paying the kind of attention you should, but you wouldn't also be getting used. People who have to pay stiff fines for over-drafting should close their accounts and see just how fast the charges get waved.

How do you propose to get enough of them to do that so as to make a difference to the bank? A couple here or there is not going to affect the bank.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

Which bank and credit union?

Wachovia, USBank and a local CU here. Also Chase and Commerce Bank post credits first, then debits. Those are the three big banks I know for sure.

Wachovia is dead and buried they were so corrupt.

Full of shit with Commerce. I had that piece of shit bank in Oklahoma so I know.

Chase most certainly uses the nefarious computer model.

I don't know anything about USBank but will look them up.

You haven't proved anything other than throw out a bunch of bank names.

You said you had two that changed their nefarious computer programming just for you.

You have not proven that in the least.

Edit: I e-mailed US Bank asking them specifically if they post credits first over debits.

I will post reply

Thank you for contacting U.S. Bank

We have received your email and will contact you within 24 hours. If your questions require an immediate response or your debit card/checks have been lost or stolen, contact us right away at one of the numbers below :



* 1-800-USBANKS (872-2657) - within the United States

* 1-503-401-9991 - consumer customer outside the United States, call collect

* 1-503-401-9992 - business customer outside the United States, call collect

* 1-800-685-5065 - TDD



Sincerely

U.S Bank Customer Service

Enroll in Internet Banking and you can check account balances, view transactions, and pay all your bills in minutes with FREE Bill Pay. Not signed up for Bill Pay yet? It's easy! Just visit usbank.com, login to Internet Banking, select the Bill Pay link and start paying bills today!

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

Which bank and credit union?

Wachovia, USBank and a local CU here. Also Chase and Commerce Bank post credits first, then debits. Those are the three big banks I know for sure.

Wachovia is dead and buried they were so corrupt.

Full of shit with Commerce. I had that piece of shit bank in Oklahoma so I know.

Chase most certainly uses the nefarious computer model.

I don't know anything about USBank but will look them up.

You haven't proved anything other than throw out a bunch of bank names.

You said you had two that changed their nefarious computer programming just for you.

You have not proven that in the least.

Edit: I e-mailed US Bank asking them specifically if they post credits first over debits.

I will post reply

Thank you for contacting U.S. Bank

We have received your email and will contact you within 24 hours. If your questions require an immediate response or your debit card/checks have been lost or stolen, contact us right away at one of the numbers below :



* 1-800-USBANKS (872-2657) - within the United States

* 1-503-401-9991 - consumer customer outside the United States, call collect

* 1-503-401-9992 - business customer outside the United States, call collect

* 1-800-685-5065 - TDD



Sincerely

U.S Bank Customer Service

Enroll in Internet Banking and you can check account balances, view transactions, and pay all your bills in minutes with FREE Bill Pay. Not signed up for Bill Pay yet? It's easy! Just visit usbank.com, login to Internet Banking, select the Bill Pay link and start paying bills today!

Im not going to argue with you. Here is an article that covers a few of the banks and how they post deposits/withdrawals.

edit: just thought I would add this in, not that it makes any difference to you. There are basically 4 types of debits: atm withdrawal, debit card signature purchase, check card PIN purchase, and paper checks. They are all handled differently. Electronic purchases MUST be processed first, if you know anything about electronic guarantee purchases. When you run for example a check card sig purchase, some companies will put an electronic "hold" on your account for the purchase, others go through a 3rd party processor, so while funds that may have been there at 2pm may not be there at midnight therefore causing overdraft. Now, thats not the banks or the merchants responsibility, its YOURS. You shouldnt be purchasing shit you dont have money for, but thats another thread. Also, you have to keep in mind bank processing is not 24x7. Its business day. So Friday night-Sunday night = Monday in banking.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Im not going to argue with you. Here is an article that covers a few of the banks and how they post deposits/withdrawals.

You post a fucking blog? and an old one at that?

blog =! article

Hell even the name of the blog is consumerism commentary



The guy lost all credibility right in the beginning:


"Here is how this works, supposedly"

In his documentary film Overdrawn!, Karney Hatch mentions that banks often post your deposits and withdrawals to your bank account in such a way that they maximize the possibility of overdrafts. Even if you believe you have a large enough balance to cover your withdrawals thanks to recent deposits, the banks have a way of calculating debits and credits that can result in multiple overdrafts in one day.

"Here is how this works, supposedly"
=======================================
Fucking pathetic

You won't argue because you can't argue.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
edit: just thought I would add this in, not that it makes any difference to you. There are basically 4 types of debits: atm withdrawal, debit card signature purchase, check card PIN purchase, and paper checks. They are all handled differently. Electronic purchases MUST be processed first, if you know anything about electronic guarantee purchases. When you run for example a check card sig purchase, some companies will put an electronic "hold" on your account for the purchase, others go through a 3rd party processor, so while funds that may have been there at 2pm may not be there at midnight therefore causing overdraft. Now, thats not the banks or the merchants responsibility, its YOURS. You shouldnt be purchasing shit you dont have money for, but thats another thread. Also, you have to keep in mind bank processing is not 24x7. Its business day. So Friday night-Sunday night = Monday in banking.

Complete utter BULLSHIT

They can take your money instantly out but not credit your account including cash for days at a time.

That's criminal and you know it.

It never happened before the days of nefarious computer programming because without computers these crimes are not possible.

To support it makes you a fucking American hater as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: and I'm done talking about this shit.

They will continue this crap and it will advance towards a new Revolution and that is fine.

The banks, corporations and those that support them need their asses handed to them.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1
edit: just thought I would add this in, not that it makes any difference to you. There are basically 4 types of debits: atm withdrawal, debit card signature purchase, check card PIN purchase, and paper checks. They are all handled differently. Electronic purchases MUST be processed first, if you know anything about electronic guarantee purchases. When you run for example a check card sig purchase, some companies will put an electronic "hold" on your account for the purchase, others go through a 3rd party processor, so while funds that may have been there at 2pm may not be there at midnight therefore causing overdraft. Now, thats not the banks or the merchants responsibility, its YOURS. You shouldnt be purchasing shit you dont have money for, but thats another thread. Also, you have to keep in mind bank processing is not 24x7. Its business day. So Friday night-Sunday night = Monday in banking.

Complete utter BULLSHIT

They can take your money instantly out but not credit your account including cash for days at a time.

That's criminal and you know it.

It never happened before the days of nefarious computer programming because without computers these crimes are not possible.

To support it makes you a fucking American hater as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: and I'm done talking about this shit.

They will continue this crap and it will advance towards a new Revolution and that is fine.

The banks, corporations and those that support them need their asses handed to them.

Can you post proof of a bank who delays crediting of cash deposits, excluding ATM's? Youre full of shit as usual Dave.

And calling me an American hater? Coming from the same guy who believes anyone who doesnt support his views hates America and should leave? Sounds awfully Hitler-esque. You have no idea what America is about. YOU are the criminal here Dave not me. I dont fucking spy on people or put trojans into people's computers. People like you should be shot on site.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
why can't they just not run the overdraft charges? I mean they know that i don't have enough money, wtf?

call them up and tell them you don't want overdraft. My last bank disabled it for me.

my bank, twice, said that it wasn't an option, and even now refuses to do it, and unfortunately there is no competition in my area, with only 3 real banks with nearly identical policies.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

you shouldn't have to ask your bank not to cheat you

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

you shouldn't have to ask your bank not to cheat you

If you can't be bothered to ask your bank, then I hope you get hit as hard as you deserve with those fees. Banks should not have to do this automatically, because it's not cheating if they tell you your overdraft fee, which is easy to find out. They notified me how an overdraft fee was applied and exactly how much it was. If I didn't like those circumstances it's up to me to do it.

People can't be bothered to even ask heh. Just a bunch of pathetic whiners.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
why can't they just not run the overdraft charges? I mean they know that i don't have enough money, wtf?

call them up and tell them you don't want overdraft. My last bank disabled it for me.

my bank, twice, said that it wasn't an option, and even now refuses to do it, and unfortunately there is no competition in my area, with only 3 real banks with nearly identical policies.

Do you NEED a B&M bank? Plenty of online options for you also

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
My biggest issue is not with overdraft fees, but the way banks are dishonest with your money.

Debits before credits, with the largest debits going first.

Not all are like this. My bank and my credit union both post credits before debits. You just have to ask.

you shouldn't have to ask your bank not to cheat you

So its not up to the customer to ask before buying? You deserve what you get then. Do you ask about warranty info before purchasing a car? Do you ask return policies before making a B&M purchase? Why wouldnt you interview your bank?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Can you post proof of a bank who delays crediting of cash deposits, excluding ATM's? Youre full of shit as usual Dave.

And calling me an American hater? Coming from the same guy who believes anyone who doesnt support his views hates America and should leave? Sounds awfully Hitler-esque. You have no idea what America is about.

YOU are the criminal here Dave not me.

I dont fucking spy on people or put trojans into people's computers.


People like you should be shot on site.

Wow, you're fucking absolutely knowing nothing about technology shows right there.

Calling Distributed Computing spying and and Trojan all in one breathe.

There's fucking knowledge for you people :roll:

You're hate clearly shows for all to see.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
why can't they just not run the overdraft charges? I mean they know that i don't have enough money, wtf?

call them up and tell them you don't want overdraft. My last bank disabled it for me.

my bank, twice, said that it wasn't an option, and even now refuses to do it, and unfortunately there is no competition in my area, with only 3 real banks with nearly identical policies.

Do you NEED a B&M bank? Plenty of online options for you also

not feasable

 

[dmcowen674]

Meanwhile Bank of America and the rest of the thieves get to fleece Americans more and get rewarded for it:

10-4-09 Firms are getting billions, but homeowners still in trouble

WASHINGTON ? The federal government is engaged in a massive mortgage modification program that's on track to send billions in tax dollars to many of the very companies that judges or regulators have cited in recent years for abusive mortgage practices.

The firms, called mortgage servicers, have been cited for badgering, manipulating or lying to their customers; sticking them with bogus fees, or improperly foreclosing on them.

Mortgage servicers are the middlemen between homeowners and the investors that hold their mortgages, collecting homeowners' checks and disbursing payments for the mortgages, property tax and insurance. They're a necessary player for any modification.

The reliance on such companies points to an ironic paradox for federal regulators: Cleaning up the nation's financial crisis often rewards the firms that helped create the mess.

Several companies in the Treasury program have been cited by judges or regulators for having engaged in improper behavior with their customers.

They include Select Portfolio Servicing Inc. , a Utah -based company formerly known as Fairbanks Capital Corp. ; Countrywide Home Loans Inc. , now a unit of Bank of America Corp. ; Carrington Mortgage Services LLC , based in California ; Saxon Mortgage Services Inc. , a unit of Morgan Stanley ; EMC Mortgage Corp. , now a subsidiary of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. ; and Green Tree Servicing, a Minnesota company.

Ocwen Financial Corp. , a Florida -based company that services more than 300,000 mortgages nationwide, could receive more than $200 million in TARP payments.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Meanwhile Bank of America and the rest of the thieves get to fleece Americans more and get rewarded for it:

10-4-09 Firms are getting billions, but homeowners still in trouble

WASHINGTON ? The federal government is engaged in a massive mortgage modification program that's on track to send billions in tax dollars to many of the very companies that judges or regulators have cited in recent years for abusive mortgage practices.

The firms, called mortgage servicers, have been cited for badgering, manipulating or lying to their customers; sticking them with bogus fees, or improperly foreclosing on them.

Mortgage servicers are the middlemen between homeowners and the investors that hold their mortgages, collecting homeowners' checks and disbursing payments for the mortgages, property tax and insurance. They're a necessary player for any modification.

The reliance on such companies points to an ironic paradox for federal regulators: Cleaning up the nation's financial crisis often rewards the firms that helped create the mess.

Several companies in the Treasury program have been cited by judges or regulators for having engaged in improper behavior with their customers.

They include Select Portfolio Servicing Inc. , a Utah -based company formerly known as Fairbanks Capital Corp. ; Countrywide Home Loans Inc. , now a unit of Bank of America Corp. ; Carrington Mortgage Services LLC , based in California ; Saxon Mortgage Services Inc. , a unit of Morgan Stanley ; EMC Mortgage Corp. , now a subsidiary of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. ; and Green Tree Servicing, a Minnesota company.

Ocwen Financial Corp. , a Florida -based company that services more than 300,000 mortgages nationwide, could receive more than $200 million in TARP payments.

Why are you posting about mortages in an overdraft thread?

Oh wait. Youre Dave. Sorry.

 

[dmcowen674]

I got an answer.

Basically they are saying most of the time we won't fuck you over but we will when we can.


Dear David McOwen,

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to assist you by email.

Credits, in most cases, post before debits but may not be available at the time of posting.

Please let us know if you have any further questions. Thank you for contacting U.S. Bank regarding this matter.

Sincerely,

Amanda Allen
Email Operations
U.S.Bank 24-Hour Banking & Financial Sales

Please feel free to contact us 1-800-USBANKS (1-800-872-2657) or go to www.usbank.com and select the
'Contact Us' link.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Wow, you're fucking absolutely knowing nothing about technology shows right there.

Calling Distributed Computing spying and and Trojan all in one breathe.

There's fucking knowledge for you people :roll:

You're hate clearly shows for all to see.

Nice.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Wow, you're fucking absolutely knowing nothing about technology shows right there.

Calling Distributed Computing spying and and Trojan all in one breathe.

There's fucking knowledge for you people :roll:

You're hate clearly shows for all to see.

Nice.

Well, he DOES live in Oklahoma. Having lived briefly there myself, I can assure you the fact he can read puts him in the top 20% for intelligence there

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I got an answer.

Basically they are saying most of the time we won't fuck you over but we will when we can.


Dear David McOwen,

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to assist you by email.

Credits, in most cases, post before debits but may not be available at the time of posting.

Please let us know if you have any further questions. Thank you for contacting U.S. Bank regarding this matter.

Sincerely,

Amanda Allen
Email Operations
U.S.Bank 24-Hour Banking & Financial Sales

Please feel free to contact us 1-800-USBANKS (1-800-872-2657) or go to www.usbank.com and select the
'Contact Us' link.

Let me give you two scenarios and please explain why, in these two common scenarios, deposits should be made available right away:

Deposits at ATM
Deposit of an out of state check


Go ahead and explain.

Oh and BTW this email proves MY point, and once again shows youre absolutely ignorant in the way of business. But you'll never admit youre wrong.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Why stop there. a $0.20 overdraft should earn you $20,000.00 in fees.

 

[Atreus21]

Once again, I fail to understand why the market hasn't corrected this. There is obvious demand for banks with little to no overdraft fees, with instead a policy which simply denies funding that you don't have.

Why hasn't anyone started a bank like this? He or she would make a killing.

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
why can't they just not run the overdraft charges? I mean they know that i don't have enough money, wtf?

Why can't the institutions just reject the transaction? FWIW, I have never, ever had an check overdraft. I discovered the hard way though, that a debit card could go negative when I opened a small balance, convenience account a few years ago and was hit some months later with a $27 charge for a charge that exceeded my balance by $3.40. When I complained to the bank, I was told that I had to explicitly opt-out of overdraft protection...which I did immediately. If there had been no way to opt-out, I would have closed the account.

I think there is difference between actual checks and a debit card. Payments on checks delayed by nature and require a greater level of monitoring. Also, in the olden days, bounced checks really did involve considerable manual handling (which is no longer as relevant). With debit cards though, the payment is supposed to be instaneous and automatic. What's wrong with just telling the customer..."Too bad, you don't have the money available"?

Debit cards are marketed as "just like cash only more convenient". Well if turn up at a cash register and dig into my pocket for the twenty-dollar bill I "know" should be there only to discover there's only $16 and change because I forgot about the Slurpee I purchased the night before, I can put something back or just walk out the door without buying anything. I expect the same thing with a debit card -- if the money is not there, the system should say so and not force the customer into a non-secured loan at elevated rates.