Why voice dissent of the war?

[conjur]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Voice dissent for Bush then, but make it war-unspecific.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Ladies and Gentleman, Mr. Karl Rove!


BTW, since you seem to have missed it before:

By voicing our dissent and dissatisfaction with the warmongers in the White House, we can effect changes. Rumsfeld and others have admitted they were surprised by the voraciousness of this recent insurgency. Surprised??? WTF?? Everyone knew this would happen. EVERYONE! Except the non-thinking, yes-men ideologues running the show.

They scare the fvcking sh*t out of me and need to be raked over the coals for their failures. Then, we bring in someone with goals and plans and willing to listen to all sides of an issue and we'll get true diplomacy and a working Iraqi government.

 

[TekChik]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Voice dissent for Bush then, but make it war-unspecific.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Ladies and Gentleman, Mr. Karl Rove!


BTW, since you seem to have missed it before:

By voicing our dissent and dissatisfaction with the warmongers in the White House, we can effect changes. Rumsfeld and others have admitted they were surprised by the voraciousness of this recent insurgency. Surprised??? WTF?? Everyone knew this would happen. EVERYONE! Except the non-thinking, yes-men ideologues running the show.

They scare the fvcking sh*t out of me and need to be raked over the coals for their failures. Then, we bring in someone with goals and plans and willing to listen to all sides of an issue and we'll get true diplomacy and a working Iraqi government.

what are Kerry's goals and plans for stopping the insurgents??

i know he says get United Nations to get together on it...but HOW exactly? i dont get what he can do to change it...

 

[DealMonkey]

I love it: If we're unhappy about the war, HoP suggests we all remain silent about it until the next election and only then can we signal our discontent by voting against the incumbant. Do you seriously NOT see how F'd up your little theory is HoP?

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Spencer278
Your argmument is very close to microsoft security algorithm.
If you report a security problem in an application MS tell you not to tell anyone while they create a path.
But in reality they do really work on a patch but if you tell the world then a patch will be done very quickely.

Bad example. It's more like two parents, even though they disagree strongly, showing unity in discipline before their children. Interanlly they can argue and disagree, but if they show the same division infront of their children, their kids will take that as a sign that they can, with continued pressure, get what they want and they'll never stop asking. They can even disgagree about things not involving their kids infront of their kids and the kids won't care because it doesn't directly involve them.

That assume that what the parents decided is working. If say the mother thinks that smaking the kid in the side of the head with a 2x4 will slove the problem yet after a few whacks the father will have no choose but to say it isn't working.

Just like I don't think that bushes plan is going to work so dissent may force bush to choose a different plan. This stay the course bullhit just doesn't work when we don't even have a plan.

Why do you insist on unfair examples? We aren't smashing anybody in the side of the head...we overthrew a dictator and now are trying to enact a peaceful transition to a democracy. Our soliders aren't shooting at anybody...we aren't oppressing anybody...we're just being shot at by terrorists and insurgents who are trying to derail democracy. Furthermore, if what we were doing was akin to abuse, then the International community would be obligated to unite and stop us...but all we're doing is enforceing a UN resolution earlier than they wanted to.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Why do you insist on unfair examples? We aren't smashing anybody in the side of the head...we overthrew a dictator and now are trying to enact a peaceful transition to a democracy. Our soliders aren't shooting at anybody...we aren't oppressing anybody...we're just being shot at by terrorists and insurgents who are trying to derail democracy. Furthermore, if what we were doing was akin to abuse, then the International community would be obligated to unite and stop us...but all we're doing is enforceing a UN resolution earlier than they wanted to.

"Bring it on"?

 

[jkasmann]

Could it be a difference between goals today and goals down the road? It is true that terrorists attempt to change public opinion; to say that todays war criticism fuels the terrorists is probably true in the short term. However, it is also true that propoganda and debate changes voters opinions. Most of the war-based pro-Kerry voters will say that in the long run, Kerry is better for our country in terms of military policy, and will do a better job fighting terrorists than Bush. For those voters, voicing their opinions now may be worth the cost of strengthening the terrorists in the short run, because swaying voters opinions and electing a different president will weaken terrorists in the long run.

 

[SuperTool]

Why voice dissent?
Because the reasons for war keep changing, we have no exit strategy, and no plan how to get there. Everyone with half a brain knew that these insurgencies would happen once Saddam's control was lifted. Was it a big suprise to everyone that Sunnis, Kurds, and Shiites don't like each other? Was it a big suprise that they don't like Americans? Was it a big suprise that they don't like being occupied? Apparently at the White House it was.
I think the country is very much willing to support the president when there is clarity about why we are in a war, and realistic goals such as killing the AQ leadership, as there is in Afghanistan. There is no such clarity in Iraq, as the main reason for going in has not materialized. We are bogged down in an open ended nationbuilding adventure, and regardless of how we got here, someone has to be held responsible for getting us to this position, and that someone is George W. Bush.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Voice dissent for Bush then, but make it war-unspecific.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Ladies and Gentleman, Mr. Karl Rove!


BTW, since you seem to have missed it before:

By voicing our dissent and dissatisfaction with the warmongers in the White House, we can effect changes. Rumsfeld and others have admitted they were surprised by the voraciousness of this recent insurgency. Surprised??? WTF?? Everyone knew this would happen. EVERYONE! Except the non-thinking, yes-men ideologues running the show.

From what I'm hearing...most of the insurgents aren't even Iraqis. So, yes, we may be surprised at how many foreign fighters are present in Iraq. Amazing, isn't it, that these freedom fighters are deliberatly killing their own people. Also amazing that they didn't value freedom before Saddam fell. Further amazing that they think they have a better shot against the US military than against Saddam's army.

How will voicing dissent over the war effect change? What's the goal? To get them to leave before their job is done?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Voice dissent for Bush then, but make it war-unspecific.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Ladies and Gentleman, Mr. Karl Rove!


BTW, since you seem to have missed it before:

By voicing our dissent and dissatisfaction with the warmongers in the White House, we can effect changes. Rumsfeld and others have admitted they were surprised by the voraciousness of this recent insurgency. Surprised??? WTF?? Everyone knew this would happen. EVERYONE! Except the non-thinking, yes-men ideologues running the show.

From what I'm hearing...most of the insurgents aren't even Iraqis. So, yes, we may be surprised at how many foreign fighters are present in Iraq. Amazing, isn't it, that these freedom fighters are deliberatly killing their own people. Also amazing that they didn't value freedom before Saddam fell. Further amazing that they think they have a better shot against the US military than against Saddam's army.

How will voicing dissent over the war effect change? What's the goal? To get them to leave before their job is done?

So which one is it? Are they outsiders or are they killing their own [Iraqi?] people?

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I love it: If we're unhappy about the war, HoP suggests we all remain silent about it until the next election and only then can we signal our discontent by voting against the incumbant.

Exactly. Are you afraid that without all your shrieking and fist-waving some people won't be bullied or scared into voting against Bush? You want to talk about F'd up?

 

[TekChik]

maybe a quote from John Kerry would help everyone, remembering that he's speaking of when HE was actually overseas fighting in a war:

In March 2003, Kerry Promised Not To Attack President When War Began:

?Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts ? said he will cease his complaints once the shooting starts. ?It?s what you owe the troops,? said a statement from Kerry, a Navy veteran of the Vietnam War. ?I remember being one of those guys and reading news reports from home. If America is at war, I won?t speak a word without measuring how it?ll sound to the guys doing the fighting when they?re listening to their radios in the desert.?? (Glen Johnson, ?Democrats On The Stump Plot Their War Rhetoric,? The Boston Globe, 3/11/03)

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I love it: If we're unhappy about the war, HoP suggests we all remain silent about it until the next election and only then can we signal our discontent by voting against the incumbant.

Exactly. Are you afraid that without all your shrieking and fist-waving some people won't be bullied or scared into voting against Bush? You want to talk about F'd up?

At least I'm not trying to equate freedom-of-speech with support for terrorism like a fascist bully-boy.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I love it: If we're unhappy about the war, HoP suggests we all remain silent about it until the next election and only then can we signal our discontent by voting against the incumbant.

Exactly. Are you afraid that without all your shrieking and fist-waving some people won't be bullied or scared into voting against Bush? You want to talk about F'd up?

Bullied or scared into voting against Bush? That's a laugh.
If I want to persuade some people to vote against Bush, that's my, and everyone's in America, right. If you don't like it, move to Iraq.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

From what I'm hearing...most of the insurgents aren't even Iraqis. So, yes, we may be surprised at how many foreign fighters are present in Iraq. Amazing, isn't it, that these freedom fighters are deliberatly killing their own people. Also amazing that they didn't value freedom before Saddam fell. Further amazing that they think they have a better shot against the US military than against Saddam's army.

How will voicing dissent over the war effect change? What's the goal? To get them to leave before their job is done?

So which one is it? Are they outsiders or are they killing their own [Iraqi?] people?

Read it again. Then read it again if it still doesn't make sense. If it still doesn't make sense after that...wait till your first year of college when you fail English and get to take remedial Composition and somebody explains it for you with hand puppets.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I love it: If we're unhappy about the war, HoP suggests we all remain silent about it until the next election and only then can we signal our discontent by voting against the incumbant.

Exactly. Are you afraid that without all your shrieking and fist-waving some people won't be bullied or scared into voting against Bush? You want to talk about F'd up?

Are you afraid that without all your silencing and claiming speaking out = of aiding terrorists, some people won't be bullied or scared into voting against NotBush?

 

[jrphoenix]

Voice dissent for Bush then, but make it war-unspecific.[/quote]

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Ladies and Gentleman, Mr. Karl Rove!


BTW, since you seem to have missed it before:

By voicing our dissent and dissatisfaction with the warmongers in the White House, we can effect changes. Rumsfeld and others have admitted they were surprised by the voraciousness of this recent insurgency. Surprised??? WTF?? Everyone knew this would happen. EVERYONE! Except the non-thinking, yes-men ideologues running the show.
[/quote]

From what I'm hearing...most of the insurgents aren't even Iraqis. So, yes, we may be surprised at how many foreign fighters are present in Iraq. Amazing, isn't it, that these freedom fighters are deliberatly killing their own people. Also amazing that they didn't value freedom before Saddam fell. Further amazing that they think they have a better shot against the US military than against Saddam's army.

How will voicing dissent over the war effect change? What's the goal? To get them to leave before their job is done?[/quote]


What you're hearing is wrong then There are foreign fighters... majority of fighters are Iraqi (from a bit on NPR yesterday on the drive home). What are you hearing other than Fox News? It amazes me that the neo-cons can't get it through their heads that nobody likes to be occupied.... Heck, the Shia didn't like Sadaam (much more than GW even).... but want to the U.S. out as soon as possible (the country stabalizes).

Voicing dissent over the war will let the international community, that the neocons thumbed their noses at, know that not all of us a warmongers. Get the guy out who invaded this country and the U.N. won't see this as validating George's war by stepping back in (listen to discussions from U.N. members). The goal is to get the neo-cons and their failed ideology out of office before they invade another country that we and the world community will have to fix.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

From what I'm hearing...most of the insurgents aren't even Iraqis. So, yes, we may be surprised at how many foreign fighters are present in Iraq. Amazing, isn't it, that these freedom fighters are deliberatly killing their own people. Also amazing that they didn't value freedom before Saddam fell. Further amazing that they think they have a better shot against the US military than against Saddam's army.

How will voicing dissent over the war effect change? What's the goal? To get them to leave before their job is done?

So which one is it? Are they outsiders or are they killing their own [Iraqi?] people?

Read it again. Then read it again if it still doesn't make sense. If it still doesn't make sense after that...wait till your first year of college when you fail English and get to take remedial Composition and somebody explains it for you with hand puppets.

Maybe you should write it again. Then rewrite it again if it still doesn't make any sense. I doubt it'll help, but worth trying.
If they are foreigners, they are not killing their people, dummy.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I love it: If we're unhappy about the war, HoP suggests we all remain silent about it until the next election and only then can we signal our discontent by voting against the incumbant.

Exactly. Are you afraid that without all your shrieking and fist-waving some people won't be bullied or scared into voting against Bush? You want to talk about F'd up?

Bullied or scared into voting against Bush? That's a laugh.
If I want to persuade some people to vote against Bush, that's my, and everyone's in America, right. If you don't like it, move to Iraq.

Yes, you do, in fact, have every right to be an idiot in America.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

From what I'm hearing...most of the insurgents aren't even Iraqis. So, yes, we may be surprised at how many foreign fighters are present in Iraq. Amazing, isn't it, that these freedom fighters are deliberatly killing their own people. Also amazing that they didn't value freedom before Saddam fell. Further amazing that they think they have a better shot against the US military than against Saddam's army.

How will voicing dissent over the war effect change? What's the goal? To get them to leave before their job is done?

So which one is it? Are they outsiders or are they killing their own [Iraqi?] people?

Read it again. Then read it again if it still doesn't make sense. If it still doesn't make sense after that...wait till your first year of college when you fail English and get to take remedial Composition and somebody explains it for you with hand puppets.

If they are foreigners, they are not killing their people, dummy.

You're so close...

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I love it: If we're unhappy about the war, HoP suggests we all remain silent about it until the next election and only then can we signal our discontent by voting against the incumbant.

Exactly. Are you afraid that without all your shrieking and fist-waving some people won't be bullied or scared into voting against Bush? You want to talk about F'd up?

Bullied or scared into voting against Bush? That's a laugh.
If I want to persuade some people to vote against Bush, that's my, and everyone's in America, right. If you don't like it, move to Iraq.

Yes, you do, in fact, have every right to be an idiot in America.

You have demonstrated it spectacularly in this thread.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: jrphoenix
Voice dissent for Bush then, but make it war-unspecific.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Ladies and Gentleman, Mr. Karl Rove!


BTW, since you seem to have missed it before:

By voicing our dissent and dissatisfaction with the warmongers in the White House, we can effect changes. Rumsfeld and others have admitted they were surprised by the voraciousness of this recent insurgency. Surprised??? WTF?? Everyone knew this would happen. EVERYONE! Except the non-thinking, yes-men ideologues running the show.
[/quote]

From what I'm hearing...most of the insurgents aren't even Iraqis. So, yes, we may be surprised at how many foreign fighters are present in Iraq. Amazing, isn't it, that these freedom fighters are deliberatly killing their own people. Also amazing that they didn't value freedom before Saddam fell. Further amazing that they think they have a better shot against the US military than against Saddam's army.

How will voicing dissent over the war effect change? What's the goal? To get them to leave before their job is done?[/quote]


What you're hearing is wrong then There are foreign fighters... majority of fighters are Iraqi (from a bit on NPR yesterday on the drive home). What are you hearing other than Fox News? It amazes me that the neo-cons can't get it through their heads that nobody likes to be occupied.... Heck, the Shia didn't like Sadaam (much more than GW even).... but want to the U.S. out as soon as possible (the country stabalizes).

Voicing dissent over the war will let the international community, that the neocons thumbed their noses at, know that not all of us a warmongers. Get the guy out who invaded this country and the U.N. won't see this as validating George's war by stepping back in (listen to discussions from U.N. members). The goal is to get the neo-cons and their failed ideology out of office before they invade another country that we and the world community will have to fix. [/quote]

Plus the country is not going to stabilize when we occupy and our President makes statements like "Bring it on", implying that he intends Iraq to be a terrorism battleground.
Especially when we are all staying quiet so we don't mess up GWB's concentration.

 

[DealMonkey]

The Condensed HoP: I'm not telling anyone what they can or can't say, but if you speak out against the war you're supporting the terrorists.

Here's a bonus study question for you HoP: How did McCarthyism limit American political debate and freedom of speech in the 1950s?

Compare/contrast and let me have your 500-word response posted by tomorrow morning 8:00AM sharp.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I love it: If we're unhappy about the war, HoP suggests we all remain silent about it until the next election and only then can we signal our discontent by voting against the incumbant.

Exactly. Are you afraid that without all your shrieking and fist-waving some people won't be bullied or scared into voting against Bush? You want to talk about F'd up?

Are you afraid that without all your silencing and claiming speaking out = of aiding terrorists, some people won't be bullied or scared into voting against NotBush?

No. If you're against the war so much that you'll vote against Bush, you're going to vote against him. Sparing the lives of our troops and getting us out of Iraq successfully won't affect...hmm....maybe it will affect them if we're successful.......hmm...well...here's to hoping we fail and many more soldiers die so more people vote against Bush. :beer:

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: TekChik
maybe a quote from John Kerry would help everyone, remembering that he's speaking of when HE was actually overseas fighting in a war:

In March 2003, Kerry Promised Not To Attack President When War Began:

?Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts ? said he will cease his complaints once the shooting starts. ?It?s what you owe the troops,? said a statement from Kerry, a Navy veteran of the Vietnam War. ?I remember being one of those guys and reading news reports from home. If America is at war, I won?t speak a word without measuring how it?ll sound to the guys doing the fighting when they?re listening to their radios in the desert.?? (Glen Johnson, ?Democrats On The Stump Plot Their War Rhetoric,? The Boston Globe, 3/11/03)

Eloquently stated, John. Too bad there was no honesty behind it.

 

[SuperTool]

I don't think they brought it on because Bush said, "Bring it on," but they did brought it on because Bush put our troops in a vulnerable position where we are engaged in nationbuilding. It's a good setting if you are a guerilla, where you can blend into the population, plenty of disenchanted locals to recruit from, lots of ordinance hidden in various places.