GuitarDaddy
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2004
- 11,465
- 1
- 0
LCD's have come a long way. I too always preferred CRT's until 6 months ago, I bought a 12ms 17" LCD, to use instead of my high res 19" CRT. At the time I made the purchase I thought I would be sacrificing resolution and clarity for a sleeker, lighter alternative.
At first it looked very different and I didn't know if I would like it. Within a week I got used to the new look and realized there was little if any loss in graphics quality. Now six months latter I absolutely believe the lCD to be far superior to my old CRT in every way. Better color rendition, better clarity, less eye strain, everything is better with the LCD.
Now I hardly use the machine attached to the CRT, and when I do I'm constantly thinking "I actually used to think this POS was better than an LCD"
As long as you get a quality LCD with a low refresh rate, you will absolutely forget about ever using a CRT again. I do some heavy duty photoshop work with large digital images (the main reason I kept the CRT), but I wouldn't dream of using the CRT for that purpose now because the LCD is simple much better and more accurate graphic quality
At first it looked very different and I didn't know if I would like it. Within a week I got used to the new look and realized there was little if any loss in graphics quality. Now six months latter I absolutely believe the lCD to be far superior to my old CRT in every way. Better color rendition, better clarity, less eye strain, everything is better with the LCD.
Now I hardly use the machine attached to the CRT, and when I do I'm constantly thinking "I actually used to think this POS was better than an LCD"
As long as you get a quality LCD with a low refresh rate, you will absolutely forget about ever using a CRT again. I do some heavy duty photoshop work with large digital images (the main reason I kept the CRT), but I wouldn't dream of using the CRT for that purpose now because the LCD is simple much better and more accurate graphic quality
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
LCD's don't have a refresh rate.Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
LCD's have come a long way. I too always preferred CRT's until 6 months ago, I bought a 12ms 17" LCD, to use instead of my high res 19" CRT. At the time I made the purchase I thought I would be sacrificing resolution and clarity for a sleeker, lighter alternative.
At first it looked very different and I didn't know if I would like it. Within a week I got used to the new look and realized there was little if any loss in graphics quality. Now six months latter I absolutely believe the lCD to be far superior to my old CRT in every way. Better color rendition, better clarity, less eye strain, everything is better with the LCD.
Now I hardly use the machine attached to the CRT, and when I do I'm constantly thinking "I actually used to think this POS was better than an LCD"
As long as you get a quality LCD with a low refresh rate, you will absolutely forget about ever using a CRT again. I do some heavy duty photoshop work with large digital images (the main reason I kept the CRT), but I wouldn't dream of using the CRT for that purpose now because the LCD is simple much better and more accurate graphic quality
12ms is a lie, based on one color. Best case is 22ms avg on the fastest panels.
CRTs are 800us, 400x faster.
Maybe you never used a real CRT eg UX guned diamondtron or FD trinitron... Most CRT's can't even stand up to the cheapest LCD's...but those blow them away.
NEC makes very good CRT, you might be comparing it to crappy LCD. I am using my bro's comp (which is a FE991SB, same as you) and comparing it to my 19" NEC 8ms LCD, the LCD is on par if not better than the CRT. You just have to compare it to the better ones.
My point is for the price you can get an FE991($250) you can't get a comparable quailty LCD, a nice LCD might be better then my CRT but it would cost more (How much was your NEC LCD?), price-performance CRTs win every time.
AMDZen
Lifer
- Apr 15, 2004
- 12,589
- 0
- 76
I agree with the rant whole heartedly. CRT's are A LOT better for everything.
I can only assume that some of you people either have no clue what your talking about, or are simply not gamers. A few of you say that there is no ghosting?? I have seen high quality LCD's, these Dell's that everything raves about, I've seen them all. I have yet to see a single one that doesn't ghost and pretty much ruin the gaming experience. And then the brightness is wayy too bright for spreadsheet work or reading. Like the OP said, its like looking into the sun.
Chances are I will never buy an LCD. Unless things change.
The only advantage they do have is the size. Which is completely and utterly irrelevant for me. My Desk can hold my CRT just fine for one, and I like to have my monitor right beyond my keyboard and close to the edge of the desk (edge closest to me) which COMPLETELY negates the space concerns. I would put a big LCD in the same spot, and couldn't use any of the space behind it so its wasted space both ways.
CRT FOR LIFE !!!!!!!!
I can only assume that some of you people either have no clue what your talking about, or are simply not gamers. A few of you say that there is no ghosting?? I have seen high quality LCD's, these Dell's that everything raves about, I've seen them all. I have yet to see a single one that doesn't ghost and pretty much ruin the gaming experience. And then the brightness is wayy too bright for spreadsheet work or reading. Like the OP said, its like looking into the sun.
Chances are I will never buy an LCD. Unless things change.
The only advantage they do have is the size. Which is completely and utterly irrelevant for me. My Desk can hold my CRT just fine for one, and I like to have my monitor right beyond my keyboard and close to the edge of the desk (edge closest to me) which COMPLETELY negates the space concerns. I would put a big LCD in the same spot, and couldn't use any of the space behind it so its wasted space both ways.
CRT FOR LIFE !!!!!!!!
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
I can't help it if you spilt all your cash on system and have Legos for a desk.
Try this:
http://www.officefurniture.com/Product....O-1513&afid=bizrate_of&CMP=KNC-Bizrate
1. LCD's for text.
2. CRT for everything else.
I have dual displays, so I live in the best of both worlds here. But if I had to choose one, it would be a tough choice. I got an 19" LCD to reduce eye strain when reading text and working in business apps. But for gaming and for movies, no question a 19" CRT is the better solution.
2. CRT for everything else.
I have dual displays, so I live in the best of both worlds here. But if I had to choose one, it would be a tough choice. I got an 19" LCD to reduce eye strain when reading text and working in business apps. But for gaming and for movies, no question a 19" CRT is the better solution.
Neither type of monitor is better for everything.
I'm a gamer and I use a Dell 2005FPW. Although yes, I'm one of the few who does notice ghosting, but it's not bad enough at all to ruin it for me.
My LCD is very bright, yes...(even more so than the 2001FP I had used at times before), but I like it...it's not at all blinding to me anyway.
This is what I meant when I said that neither type of display is right for everyone.
LCD's are better because:
less power
less weight
yes, the Dell 24" viewable Widescreen 16:10 monitor for $1000 can't be beat. CRT's cannot give you widescreen aspect that some present and future games are going to be in, standard.
--BIGGEST REASON--
An LCD monitor displaying a game, or graphics in it's NATIVE RESOLUTION gives you a 1:1 pixel display, and that mixed with a DVI input, CANNOT BE BEAT. The clarity is unbelievable on text and edges.
Also, sending a signal to an LCD is easier on a video card than to a CRT, because LCD's don't deal with refresh rates. But CRT's and video cards are used to having to display high rez AND high refresh rates (75-85hz). This is tougher to get good FPS when you're pushing a higher rez and refresh. With LCD's, refresh rate doesn't really apply. So this is easier on the vid card and possibly could mean higher FPS.
The future is this......multiple LCD monitors (2-3) side by side displaying a game in an incredible panaramic view. When you look out at the world out of your own eyes, it's not in 4:3 ratio. It's in 16:10 atleast, or better yet, it's in a widescreen viewpoint that 2-3 lcd's will reproduce. CRT's can never take you to that level of graphical emmersiveness. Who has the deskspace to have 2-3 CRT's next to each other. CRT's are just an old concept, like PC's with yellow plastic cases. It's the old. LCD is the new. And with 12ms redraw, ghosting isn't a problem anymore.
less power
less weight
yes, the Dell 24" viewable Widescreen 16:10 monitor for $1000 can't be beat. CRT's cannot give you widescreen aspect that some present and future games are going to be in, standard.
--BIGGEST REASON--
An LCD monitor displaying a game, or graphics in it's NATIVE RESOLUTION gives you a 1:1 pixel display, and that mixed with a DVI input, CANNOT BE BEAT. The clarity is unbelievable on text and edges.
Also, sending a signal to an LCD is easier on a video card than to a CRT, because LCD's don't deal with refresh rates. But CRT's and video cards are used to having to display high rez AND high refresh rates (75-85hz). This is tougher to get good FPS when you're pushing a higher rez and refresh. With LCD's, refresh rate doesn't really apply. So this is easier on the vid card and possibly could mean higher FPS.
The future is this......multiple LCD monitors (2-3) side by side displaying a game in an incredible panaramic view. When you look out at the world out of your own eyes, it's not in 4:3 ratio. It's in 16:10 atleast, or better yet, it's in a widescreen viewpoint that 2-3 lcd's will reproduce. CRT's can never take you to that level of graphical emmersiveness. Who has the deskspace to have 2-3 CRT's next to each other. CRT's are just an old concept, like PC's with yellow plastic cases. It's the old. LCD is the new. And with 12ms redraw, ghosting isn't a problem anymore.
I have two 2001FP monitors, and one 1905FP. The image quality on the 2001FP is superb, and so is everything else; the 1905FP is nothing to sneeze at either. I think that this is just a case of LCD envy, personally-- otherwise, who would give a crap? Keep your g*ddamned CRT for the next ten years!
Oh, and try rotating your huge-ass CRT monitor sideways to look at documents.
Oh, and try rotating your huge-ass CRT monitor sideways to look at documents.
LOL, I can picture it now.....
typing..."hey there good lookin', you cant see me but I can see this funky LCD screen, the funny picture makes you look quite attractive"
LCD's are good because noobs sell off their 21" FD trinitrons for a bargain price
edit: also I think the OP meant that its quite hard to get a good CRT for the right price these days, so try my above tip, a 2-3 year FD should still be good if it wasnt used 24/7
Okay, if that's a CRT monitor that can do that, it's a good retort-- but the great BULK
of CRT monitors can't do that. Anyway, here's my answer to the OP, and it's a more-civilized one: I prefer CRTs due to better image AND text quality. You can keep your fuzzy images, and I will keep my sharp ones.One thing that almost nobody addresses is that the color issue is practically nonexistent. You can buy an LCD with deep blacks now if you want; you can also buy a color calibration system for either LCDs or CRTs that will adjust the balance of colors appropriately for your monitor. As someone else said, LCDs are now used for graphics and CAD work all the time.
i hate lcd's. my friend has an LCD TV monitor that I cant stand watching because no matter what, the action scene in a movie is always muddy and blurry, and when playing games on it its just as bad. it hurts my eyes
Again, I am very confused as to where you get your LCD prices from. Are you looking at the specialty models designed for graphics work or something? $700 for a 19" LCD is a terrible price. That's roughly retail on the Dell 2001FP (20.1" LCD, 1600x1200) these days.
I guess you're saying that you think an LCD is equivalent to a much lower-quality CRT -- which is an opinion if anything.
Yes -- the dot pitch on a really good CRT monitor is slightly better than on an LCD monitor. If you can see the pixels, you're sitting too close to the display. It would look the same on a lower-dot-pitch CRT.
But you said in your first post that the low dot pitch meant "too much detail is lost", which makes no sense. No detail is "lost" -- you're seeing every pixel of the digital feed from the PC.
6-bit models are lousy for graphics design work due to the worse color palette. Newer models with 8-bit color should be just fine. THG had no problems doing successful color calibrations on almost every model they've tested in the last year.
Only if you run the display at a non-native resolution or are using VGA and having signal integrity issues (the monitors set up in computer stores are NOTORIOUS for this, since they often run them through splitters and switches). ClearType antialiases fonts so that they look better at non-native resolutions, and is not necessary if your desktop is at the display's native resolution. There's just no way text or 2D images could possibly look bad on a properly-adjusted LCD being run at its native resolution; it is a digital signal being displayed on a digital display with a 1:1 pixel mapping.
Yes, at this time the 8ms monitors are 6-bit panels and the viewable angle is reduced. If you're willing to settle for a 12- or 16-ms monitor, you can avoid this, but then there is more ghosting (if you find that to be problematic). The technology is not perfect, but is improving constantly.
By that logic people would flock to purchase the lower quality car but pay more for that the highest quality cars. If that ever becomes reality we are in big trouble!
That sentence needs some work.You seemed to be implying that manufacturers were cutting CRT production to force people to buy (higher-profit) LCDs. While LCD monitors *are* more profitable (markup is better, and they're far easier to handle and ship), they are cutting CRT production because demand for CRT monitors is dropping like a rock.
Don't get me wrong -- LCD monitors are not perfect (although in a year or two they probably will be close enough for even the most demanding users). They don't handle running at multiple resolutions very well (you either lose some of the screen area, or it scales the signal to full screen). There is still some amount of visible ghosting (although it is minor with 8ms displays, but these have reduced viewing angles currently and are not available in sizes larger than 19"). And color reproduction is worse than on a very good CRT (although a good LCD is probably better in this regard than a crap CRT, and the best LCDs are damn close to a good CRT). On the other hand, in terms of picture geometry, no CRT can beat an LCD using a DVI interface.
But to the vast majority of users, resolution scaling and super-accurate color reproduction are just not that critical, and ghosting is not intolerable even on a 16ms monitor. If these things are critical to you, or you are on a tight budget, or you have tons of desk space and don't mind a big, heavy monitor on your desk, stick to a CRT.
Hmmm, do they work better if I carry them in the back window of the car or on the roof? Wait, my Wife might ask questions.
PS. ROFL!
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
LCD's have come a long way. I too always preferred CRT's until 6 months ago, I bought a 12ms 17" LCD, to use instead of my high res 19" CRT. At the time I made the purchase I thought I would be sacrificing resolution and clarity for a sleeker, lighter alternative.
At first it looked very different and I didn't know if I would like it. Within a week I got used to the new look and realized there was little if any loss in graphics quality. Now six months latter I absolutely believe the lCD to be far superior to my old CRT in every way. Better color rendition, better clarity, less eye strain, everything is better with the LCD.
Now I hardly use the machine attached to the CRT, and when I do I'm constantly thinking "I actually used to think this POS was better than an LCD"
As long as you get a quality LCD with a low refresh rate, you will absolutely forget about ever using a CRT again. I do some heavy duty photoshop work with large digital images (the main reason I kept the CRT), but I wouldn't dream of using the CRT for that purpose now because the LCD is simple much better and more accurate graphic quality
Hmmm, I never thougth about needing a break in period for me to adjust. The problem is once purchased and used for a week it is probably purchased for good. Still, you have given me a valid reason to check it out.
We do have such an ability to adjust. Example, since you are working with photoshop and possibly with photos... Take a picture with a real camera, no film, and take a picture in a home, office, and outdoors. We tend to see the same colors. The camera proves how wrong we are.
Thanks.
So much for space savings...
Seriously that would change gaming and everything else.
However, why multiples? How about one that wraps around. Now THAT is something you can't do with a crt and is something to look forward too. Thanks for the visual!
Widthwise you are only saving 6 inches with a 22" CRT (20" LCD) or 3 inches with a 19" (18" LCD).
Originally posted by: xsilver
LOL, I can picture it now.....
typing..."hey there good lookin', you cant see me but I can see this funky LCD screen, the funny picture makes you look quite attractive"
LCD's are good because noobs sell off their 21" FD trinitrons for a bargain price
edit: also I think the OP meant that its quite hard to get a good CRT for the right price these days, so try my above tip, a 2-3 year FD should still be good if it wasnt used 24/7
From the 1950's "want to come up and see my etchings?" to 2005's "want to come up and see my LCD monitor with DVD-I?" ROFL
good idea. It would give me a bit more time to get an LCD monitor that is "worthwhile."
However, I may purchase a high end (whatever that means in LCD's) LCD and work with both. My desk has the room for the 2 monitors, laptop, AND an LCD. Leggo desks need not apply!
edmundoab
Diamond Member
weight and space factor i would say..
of course a CRT tube and an LCD is always gonna look a little different
of course a CRT tube and an LCD is always gonna look a little different
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
Better get used to it. They stopped making real CRT's about 3 months ago.. Trinitron FD's stopped over two years ago!
Go look. Find a NEC 930SB, or 2070SB. Go find any Sony Trinitron like CPD-500 or CPD-520..
Basically you got crap arse cheap grabage (that's a lot of adjectives) Invar shadow masks developed for the poor third world to choose from.:| LCD beats those everytime.
I just ordered two 21" CRTs today for back-up but I'm keeping it on the down low till my fellas get a line.
That's how hard they are to find.
Elcs
Diamond Member
- Apr 27, 2002
- 6,278
- 6
- 81
Considering the size of my room, Id hate to have 2 large CRT's on my desk. Id barely have enough room for a bed.
My LCD is superior to my CRT in nearly every activity. The only thing that is problematic for my LCD is watching Football matches on it. Watching Kluivert put one past Chelsea in the Cup, the CRT is just much crisper in movement.
Even on FPSes, I dont notice Ghosting during play on my LCD.
I feel quite sorry for people who cant embrace the joys of LCD's. I dont care about the ones who are too ignorant to try, they dont know what they are missing.
My LCD is superior to my CRT in nearly every activity. The only thing that is problematic for my LCD is watching Football matches on it. Watching Kluivert put one past Chelsea in the Cup, the CRT is just much crisper in movement.
Even on FPSes, I dont notice Ghosting during play on my LCD.
I feel quite sorry for people who cant embrace the joys of LCD's. I dont care about the ones who are too ignorant to try, they dont know what they are missing.
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