Why the left hates Trump so intensely

[Jhhnn]

That's not wholly true. You're making a mistake in assuming all Trump voters are the same.

I talked to a lot of people before the election. Broadly speaking, I found two camps of Trump voters. First, there are the True Believers, the fools we mock for falling for the Trump con. They fully support Donnie boy. They don't care that he is human garbage. They are largely immune to fact and reason.

But, I also found a handful of ideological Trump voters. They agree he's garbage, but he's Republican garbage. They don't really support him, but they did vote for him. Why? They felt POTUS as a person was less important than the Supreme Court vacancies he would fill. They were very passionate about abortion or guns, and felt Clinton would select SCOTUS justices that undermined those causes. They were hopeful there are enough checks and balances in the system to keep Trump under control. While I do not agree with their priorities, I understand their reasoning and I recognize their choice was based on reality (unlike Donnie's cult-like followers).

Ideological Trump voters were delusional before he even announced his candidacy.

 

[realibrad]

Ideological Trump voters were delusional before he even announced his candidacy.

Ok, so the Right have an excuse of being delusional. What do you say about the left that did not vote for Hillary? Why did she have such low voter turnout in terms of % of people that could vote?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Ok, so the Right have an excuse of being delusional. What do you say about the left that did not vote for Hillary? Why did she have such low voter turnout in terms of % of people that could vote?

Russian Psy-Ops, fake news, Bernie Bros, and Comey.

 

[sandorski]

There is only one majority that matters under our Constitutionally defined Presidential election system. Is there something about that you do not understand?

When others talk about the Majority, they are talking about Americans/Voters. Whether your system takes that into account or not is another issue. If you want to use the term "Majority" to refer to the EC, you need to specify that and not just criticize those using the term about Americans/Voters.

 

[momeNt]

Russian Psy-Ops, fake news, Bernie Bros, and Comey.

Mainly Russian Psy-ops. There to date is no definitive proof that Comey is not Russian or has been compromised by the Russians. Fake news IS part of Russian Psy-ops.

Bernie, no idea, he was a unicorn, if Hillary was even remotely the progressive or liberal she claimed to be, she would have stepped aside for him. He had it all.

 

[xthetenth]

You have an amazing ability to determine comfort level and whether one cares about "X" or not over the Internet.

The election of the President of the United States is not determined by a plurality of the popular vote but by the plurality of the popular vote in the separate States via apportionment of the electoral college as determined by the States. The majority as recognized by our Constitution decided. There is no other majority with respect to Presidential elections.

If you want to continue to argue over who won the popular vote, then by all means do so. I cannot disagree as that is a fact. A fact that is completely irrelevant except in so far as any President so elected should probably be cognizant.

I do see you are upset a progressive/statist candidate lost and hence a return to a more conservative agenda. However, in four years you can try again.

How many different ways can you concede that the majority of the vote got no representation and still think you're making an argument? I said the majority was silenced. It was. That the political system of the nation is merely systematically undemocratic and working as intended does nothing to change that.

And yes I am upset that enough of the country are so far gone and the system so weakened by their party that such an outstandingly ill-prepared candidate got elected. I make no bones about that. I'd be similarly mad about someone breaking my windows in winter. I live here, stop breaking things.

I feel like the biggest mistake was thinking that people would not care about facts and details and wanted more sensationalism. Sensationalism gets ratings, but its entertainment, and not what people were going to vote on. The hardcore left and right already picked their side. Those in the middle saw Trump saying dumb shit, but not getting enough facts about how he would do policy. Hillary has been in politics literally longer than I have been alive. Much easier to dig up political baggage for her.

I don't think that was a mistake, I think that meaningful discussion of policy couldn't occur, since he contradicted himself frequently and had no history to tie him to. I think we need to acknowledge that at this point for a conservative politician policy knowledge and political experience are negatives.

 

[realibrad]

I don't think that was a mistake, I think that meaningful discussion of policy couldn't occur, since he contradicted himself frequently and had no history to tie him to. I think we need to acknowledge that at this point for a conservative politician policy knowledge and political experience are negatives.

If your argument is that his double speak works for conservatives, then fine, that ends there. Why did those on the Left not see Hillary as being worth voting for over Trump? See, if the argument is that those on the Right are lost, then so be it, but it does not explain the actions of those on the Left. Voter turnout was very low for Hillary in terms of groups that normally vote Left.
I see plenty of reasons why Trump was bad, but nothing to explain why those that are typically on the Left did not turn out for Hillary. I dont see how Trump being bad means people dont vote for Hillary.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Who's reveling in his win? I'm just enjoying watching those who talked badly about anyone that didn't support Clinton have to deal with her loss.

Of course no one has any clue how well he will do even all those on the left projecting doom and gloom. Even though I didn't vote for Trump, I'm with Tom Hanks on this. I hope he does so well I would want to vote to re-elect him.

Only if you are deaf, dumb and blind.

 

[Jhhnn]

Mainly Russian Psy-ops. There to date is no definitive proof that Comey is not Russian or has been compromised by the Russians. Fake news IS part of Russian Psy-ops.

Bernie, no idea, he was a unicorn, if Hillary was even remotely the progressive or liberal she claimed to be, she would have stepped aside for him. He had it all.

The concern trolling on behalf of poor Bernie was epic, wasn't it? Kinda like the internet version of the Golden Horde. Where are they now? On assignment to troll somebody else, obviously.

 

[Jhhnn]

Russian Psy-Ops, fake news, Bernie Bros, and Comey.

You forgot 20+ years of relentless right wing conspiracy theorizing to soften up America's brains. They didn't get to be Birther/Benghazi believers by accident.

 

[momeNt]

The concern trolling on behalf of poor Bernie was epic, wasn't it? Kinda like the internet version of the Golden Horde. Where are they now? On assignment to troll somebody else, obviously.

If Bernie had ran dems would have remembered where their polling places were and matched, or beat Obama's turnout. If anything, Hillary was the pied piper that the Russians wanted to run. So I think everybody got victimized by Russia, it is not just conservatives that fell to the psy-op tactics.

 

[Jhhnn]

If Bernie had ran dems would have remembered where their polling places were and matched, or beat Obama's turnout.

Nice crystal ball.

If anything, Hillary was the pied piper that the Russians wanted to run.

Wut? She was the person they wanted least in the White House.

So I think everybody got victimized by Russia, it is not just conservatives that fell to the psy-op tactics.

Of course. They worked long & hard to tear Clinton down far enough for Trump to win, even answered Trump's call for more ammo to use against her. A weak president means a weak America & they have it in Trump.

 

[realibrad]

Nice crystal ball.



Wut? She was the person they wanted least in the White House.



Of course. They worked long & hard to tear Clinton down far enough for Trump to win, even answered Trump's call for more ammo to use against her. A weak president means a weak America & they have it in Trump.

What did Russia do to tear her down. They hacked to show what the DNC was doing which is a huge problem, but what did they do other than to expose against her and not him.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

You forgot 20+ years of relentless right wing conspiracy theorizing to soften up America's brains. They didn't get to be Birther/Benghazi believers by accident.

So this is why voters on the left chose not to vote for Clinton. Wow, just wow!!!

 

[Thebobo]

What did Russia do to tear her down. They hacked to show what the DNC was doing which is a huge problem, but what did they do other than to expose against her and not him.

lol

 

[realibrad]

lol

Jaja.

 

[ivwshane]

i·ro·ny
ˈīrənē/
noun

1. the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
   
   "“Don't go overboard with the Trump calling Obama's presidency in doubt for 8 years,” we rejoined with heavy irony" synonyms: sarcasm, causticity, cynicism, mockery, satire, sardonicism
   "that note of irony in Trumps birtherism still reminds us he us full of tripe"

Oh and by the to bad congress didn't understand that for the last eight years. Irony overload!

Lets not forget about how the "elections have consequences" comment led to complete obstruction by their party. Funny how they want to assert that reality now. Using their original logic, trump should be stopped at all costs and his agenda should be ignored. You think they would agree?

Lol fucking hypocrites.

 

[xthetenth]

If your argument is that his double speak works for conservatives, then fine, that ends there. Why did those on the Left not see Hillary as being worth voting for over Trump? See, if the argument is that those on the Right are lost, then so be it, but it does not explain the actions of those on the Left. Voter turnout was very low for Hillary in terms of groups that normally vote Left.
I see plenty of reasons why Trump was bad, but nothing to explain why those that are typically on the Left did not turn out for Hillary. I dont see how Trump being bad means people dont vote for Hillary.

It works for non-conservatives too, at least enough of them. It's a lot harder to pin someone being incredibly dishonest to them and have it stick when everyone's got a lazy perception that all politicians are dishonest and no real nuance to that. The rust belt got a total vacuum of policy to project wish fulfillment onto, and minorities got someone who isn't Barack Obama and voter suppression efforts to deal with as well. It's no accident that early voting days got cut in a lot of states, such as North Carolina, which was really close. In that state in particular there were a lot of counties that cut the days that the state had cut after a court prevented the state from doing it because they made the mistake of checking which days minority voters use the most when cutting them. So the counties just didn't check the dates because the work was done, and since the Voting Rights Act was gutted, that was fine.

 

[werepossum]

It's a take down of the establishment, both Republican and Democrat.
It's a result of our joint failures as a nation, the way Robespierre was a failure of King Louis XVI.

*corrected name

Agreed. But our GTM (Great Tangerine Messiah) may well reek so badly that Americans go running back to our establishments. Remember, you can't spell "trump" without "rump". It's much like Chris Roberts' Star Citizen in that I wish him well, but cannot see any path forward that doesn't end in shit.

Also, most of us see Obama as merely a further progressive extension of the Democrat establishment and Hillary merely a corrupt extension with different naughty bits. Old, wrinkled, sour different naughty bits that no one except Huma dare contemplate for fearing of soul loss, but still.

Says the guy who can't use your you're right.

lol Moonie is suffering from an especially severe case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. Once Trump has moved on, perhaps Moonie will eventually recover and return to his usual wise and poetic self. Until then, just keep clear of the spittle in case of contagion.

It makes sense that the lower-middle class would be more socially conservative than the plutocracy. Like, the billionaires are so rich that they can pretty much do anything and not pay any consequences for it. Eric Schmidt is reported to be effectively polygamous with like 3 wives he takes care of.

The thing is that to the lower middle class, alternative sexuality are a direct threat to their family units. They live in a world of direct consequences: ie be late just once and you might end up setting off a chain reaction which ends up with you losing your apartment. So a lower middle class guy who wanted to be polygamous would likely result in disaster, and the entire family unit sinking into the bottom rungs.

It is common knowledge that the plutocracy are the Democratic donors who drive the socially liberal agenda.

You have a point there. Poor farmers are the most conservative and least amenable to changing crops or methods, because they cannot afford to lose a crop or guess wrong. But it's important to identify what is truly a direct threat and what is not. My neighbor being queer or polyamorous or transsexual may well be a direct threat to him or her, but it is not ever a direct threat to me unless I choose to act in such a way that makes it so. Same with other direct threats; while Obamacare hit some of us pretty hard in the stones, other people in similar socioeconomic situations got a lift or even had a major threat removed.

 

[sandorski]

Lets not forget about how the "elections have consequences" comment led to complete obstruction by their party. Funny how they want to assert that reality now. Using their original logic, trump should be stopped at all costs and his agenda should be ignored. You think they would agree?

Lol fucking hypocrites.

There are 2 things that stand out to me:

1) The Republicans generally always legislate as if they have Won the Election

2) The Democrats generally always seek to compromise to Pass Legislation

I don't think it has always been that way, but ever since the Clinton Administration the 2 Parties seem to have adopted those roles.

 

[realibrad]

It works for non-conservatives too, at least enough of them. It's a lot harder to pin someone being incredibly dishonest to them and have it stick when everyone's got a lazy perception that all politicians are dishonest and no real nuance to that. The rust belt got a total vacuum of policy to project wish fulfillment onto, and minorities got someone who isn't Barack Obama and voter suppression efforts to deal with as well. It's no accident that early voting days got cut in a lot of states, such as North Carolina, which was really close. In that state in particular there were a lot of counties that cut the days that the state had cut after a court prevented the state from doing it because they made the mistake of checking which days minority voters use the most when cutting them. So the counties just didn't check the dates because the work was done, and since the Voting Rights Act was gutted, that was fine.

So your argument is that those on the right always vote, but those on the left are stupid or lazy. Early voting is a drop in the bucket.

 

[fskimospy]

So your argument is that those on the right always vote, but those on the left are stupid or lazy. Early voting is a drop in the bucket.

Early voting is definitely not a drop in the bucket. Like, at all.

 

[ivwshane]

There are 2 things that stand out to me:

1) The Republicans generally always legislate as if they have Won the Election

2) The Democrats generally always seek to compromise to Pass Legislation

I don't think it has always been that way, but ever since the Clinton Administration the 2 Parties seem to have adopted those roles.

Agreed and its why the dems are labeled week.

 

[realibrad]

Early voting is definitely not a drop in the bucket. Like, at all.

In terms of voter loss confined to the states that reduced it yes, it's small. If you are talking about total early votes then you are talking about something not being discussed. I asked about why the left did not turn out. Voter suppression in that context is likely small. I'm not making a claim about anything beyond that here.

 

[werepossum]

The west has a fairly standard idea of religion, one that has coexisted with the rise of human rights.
That bond should not be ignored. Other parts of the world try a hell of a lot harder to kill those who offend them.
Maybe some credit is due for those who turn the other cheek and let our part of the world modernize.

Well said.

technically speaking, and by technically speaking I mean the popular vote, which by definition is the majority, did not elect or vote for drumpf.

That falls apart without California, for among the other 49 states Trump did win the popular vote. Perhaps if all states spent an additional two weeks "correcting" votes, Trump wouldn't have lost the popular vote even including California.

That's not wholly true. You're making a mistake in assuming all Trump voters are the same.

I talked to a lot of people before the election. Broadly speaking, I found two camps of Trump voters. First, there are the True Believers, the fools we mock for falling for the Trump con. They fully support Donnie boy. They don't care that he is human garbage. They are largely immune to fact and reason.

But, I also found a handful of ideological Trump voters. They agree he's garbage, but he's Republican garbage. They don't really support him, but they did vote for him. Why? They felt POTUS as a person was less important than the Supreme Court vacancies he would fill. They were very passionate about abortion or guns, and felt Clinton would select SCOTUS justices that undermined those causes. They were hopeful there are enough checks and balances in the system to keep Trump under control. While I do not agree with their priorities, I understand their reasoning and I recognize their choice was based on reality (unlike Donnie's cult-like followers).

That's well reasoned, but those two groups weren't enough to elect Trump. That fell to a third group, who believed that the Dems have been so bad for them that even Trump couldn't be worse. It's also worth pointing out that these people are typically former Democrat voters, often union members, and they voted for Cheeto Jesus even knowing that he too outsources everything he can in search of profit because he's literally the only voice even paying lip service to what's been happening to them. Rather than even devote that much thought to these Americans, the Dems elected to merely throw mud, blanket the media with commercials, and concentrate of motivating the truly faithful to turn out. For want of a nail . . .

My own answer to the Supreme Court argument was that if we elect someone as loathsome as Trump (or HRC) because of SCOTUS nominees, then we guarantee that's the caliber of candidates we will get from now on. Part of having a party has to be a willingness to abandon that party, or we're not thinking, moral beings.