403Forbidden--
Pearl Harbor bombed December 7, 1941.
Hiroshima bombed August 6, 1945 (i believe).
lordmo
Pearl Harbor bombed December 7, 1941.
Hiroshima bombed August 6, 1945 (i believe).
lordmo
rahvin: your answers are somewhat shallow. Although you're explaining the consequences and specifics of the war itself, you're not examining the cause of the attack on Pearl Harbour.
<< 1. The US had cut off oil supplies to Japan because of the attacks on Manchuria >>
When the US government made this decision, they thought about every side effect that it would bring. Not only did they know that it would make the Japanese hostile, it would actually cause an increase in Japan's offensive in the area. China and adjacent countries could, if conquered, be sufficient in oil reserves to enable Japan to become an important power on the world stage. With Japan invading yet more enemy territory, the US was gaining more reasons to declare war on Japan. Japan knew at some point in the future a declaration of war by the US would come about.
<< 5. They had ill founded hope that the US would take 2 years to rebuild any significant Naval ability in the pacific. This proved to later be false when the US launched 18 new ships within 6months of Pearl. Not only this, they salvaged all but 1 ship (the arizona, believed to be too badly damaged with 8 hits) from the bottom of Pearl and had most if not all repaired within 6-12months >>
This only reinforces the theory that the pearl harbour attack was expected all along by the US.
unxpurg8d, I read the document you linked. It stated that the US had no indication of where the attack might be. Am I the only one who is saying "WTF?, Perhaps they're going to attack that big naval port in the middle of the Pacific that you call 'Pearl Harbor'". Where else do you expect them to attack? LA? San Francisco? To attack one or all of the tiny US bases on the Pacific Rim would have been tatically stupid, to say the least, and im not talking in hindsight.
Japan fought WW2 not with the intention of occupying the US. That would be difficult. Instead it simply wanted to become a world power. Today, Japan is an economic power, supplying the US with all its needs, never again allowed to build a substantial military. Unsurprisingly, an analogous situation exists on the other side of the world, between the UK and Germany, again caused by WW2.
<< 3) America had treated the Japanese people like cr@p. But didn't that all start after pearl harbor?
>>
Definitely not. Back in the 19th century, an American war fleet was send to Japan, a very undeveloped country at the time, but populous, and, politically, it was neutral. The fleet gave an ultimatum: Trade with the US or face the wrath of our forces.
<< 1. The US had cut off oil supplies to Japan because of the attacks on Manchuria >>
When the US government made this decision, they thought about every side effect that it would bring. Not only did they know that it would make the Japanese hostile, it would actually cause an increase in Japan's offensive in the area. China and adjacent countries could, if conquered, be sufficient in oil reserves to enable Japan to become an important power on the world stage. With Japan invading yet more enemy territory, the US was gaining more reasons to declare war on Japan. Japan knew at some point in the future a declaration of war by the US would come about.
<< 5. They had ill founded hope that the US would take 2 years to rebuild any significant Naval ability in the pacific. This proved to later be false when the US launched 18 new ships within 6months of Pearl. Not only this, they salvaged all but 1 ship (the arizona, believed to be too badly damaged with 8 hits) from the bottom of Pearl and had most if not all repaired within 6-12months >>
This only reinforces the theory that the pearl harbour attack was expected all along by the US.
unxpurg8d, I read the document you linked. It stated that the US had no indication of where the attack might be. Am I the only one who is saying "WTF?, Perhaps they're going to attack that big naval port in the middle of the Pacific that you call 'Pearl Harbor'". Where else do you expect them to attack? LA? San Francisco? To attack one or all of the tiny US bases on the Pacific Rim would have been tatically stupid, to say the least, and im not talking in hindsight.
Japan fought WW2 not with the intention of occupying the US. That would be difficult. Instead it simply wanted to become a world power. Today, Japan is an economic power, supplying the US with all its needs, never again allowed to build a substantial military. Unsurprisingly, an analogous situation exists on the other side of the world, between the UK and Germany, again caused by WW2.
<< 3) America had treated the Japanese people like cr@p. But didn't that all start after pearl harbor?
>>
Definitely not. Back in the 19th century, an American war fleet was send to Japan, a very undeveloped country at the time, but populous, and, politically, it was neutral. The fleet gave an ultimatum: Trade with the US or face the wrath of our forces.
dennilfloss
Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
"3) America had treated the Japanese people like cr@p.
But didn't that all start after pearl harbor?"
Actually, discriminating immigration policies against Asians in both Canada and the US dated back to the end of the 19th century.
The attitude was exacerbated after WWI, particularly during meetings that led to the signing of The Washington Treaty. This treaty was designed to limit capital ship construction and was pushed mostly by England because it was impoverished at the end of the war and could not compete with Japan and the US for unlimited construction of new battleships. The US could outbuild any nation, so they did not really have an interest in the arms race being stopped but they sided with Britain based on so-called 'racialist' views. Japan lost much face during these negotiations and did not forgot or forgave these two nations.
You've Got Another Thing Coming (Judas Priest)
But didn't that all start after pearl harbor?"
Actually, discriminating immigration policies against Asians in both Canada and the US dated back to the end of the 19th century.
The attitude was exacerbated after WWI, particularly during meetings that led to the signing of The Washington Treaty. This treaty was designed to limit capital ship construction and was pushed mostly by England because it was impoverished at the end of the war and could not compete with Japan and the US for unlimited construction of new battleships. The US could outbuild any nation, so they did not really have an interest in the arms race being stopped but they sided with Britain based on so-called 'racialist' views. Japan lost much face during these negotiations and did not forgot or forgave these two nations.
You've Got Another Thing Coming (Judas Priest)
Some of this is true and some false. A subject not easily discussed in the limited space of this forum...
In part, the US had a treaty with Japan. The US supplied much of their lumber, rubber and oil, but the main thing was steel! The Japanese were supposed to be building infrastructure, but instead concentrated on planes and ships. The US then cut them off.
Also, the Japanese attacked the Aleution islands just before Pearl as a diversion.
I knew several Naval Officers that were at Pearl and a couple even flew against the 'Japs' in WWII. The Japanese had the US by the balls after Pearl!
If, and a big if, the Japanese had attempted an invasion of Pearl, many of those I've talked to think the war would have gone on for much longer. In short, it was a real threat! Some were surprised that they did not invade as they would have succeeded!
The 'Battle of Midway,' both historically and the movie is factually correct! The Japanese should have easily won that battle. It was a turning point! Several very small mistakes were made. Had those simple mistakes not have happened? Well....we can only guess.
Much is made about the way the Japanese were treated by Americans. This pales in comparision to the way that Japanese treats most Westerners! Until recently, only Japanese had any access at all to the economy in Japan.
Back to the War. Read about the atrocities committed by them against POWs, the French when they took over what we know as Vietnam, and I'm not even bothering to mention how they slaughtered the Chinese and Manchurin people. There is a NAZI officer stationed in China, that was so appauled that he tried to stop some of it!
There is so much that happened...
In part, the US had a treaty with Japan. The US supplied much of their lumber, rubber and oil, but the main thing was steel! The Japanese were supposed to be building infrastructure, but instead concentrated on planes and ships. The US then cut them off.
Also, the Japanese attacked the Aleution islands just before Pearl as a diversion.
I knew several Naval Officers that were at Pearl and a couple even flew against the 'Japs' in WWII. The Japanese had the US by the balls after Pearl!
If, and a big if, the Japanese had attempted an invasion of Pearl, many of those I've talked to think the war would have gone on for much longer. In short, it was a real threat! Some were surprised that they did not invade as they would have succeeded!
The 'Battle of Midway,' both historically and the movie is factually correct! The Japanese should have easily won that battle. It was a turning point! Several very small mistakes were made. Had those simple mistakes not have happened? Well....we can only guess.
Much is made about the way the Japanese were treated by Americans. This pales in comparision to the way that Japanese treats most Westerners! Until recently, only Japanese had any access at all to the economy in Japan.
Back to the War. Read about the atrocities committed by them against POWs, the French when they took over what we know as Vietnam, and I'm not even bothering to mention how they slaughtered the Chinese and Manchurin people. There is a NAZI officer stationed in China, that was so appauled that he tried to stop some of it!
There is so much that happened...
<< When the US government made this decision, they thought about every side effect that it would bring. Not only did they know that it would make the Japanese hostile, it would actually cause an increase in Japan's offensive in the area. China and adjacent countries could, if conquered, be sufficient in oil reserves to enable Japan to become an important power on the world stage. With Japan invading yet more enemy territory, the US was gaining more reasons to declare war on Japan. Japan knew at some point in the future a declaration of war by the US would come about. >>
America was naive, we had only recently (since WWI) entered the world stage to be considered a world power. I won't argue that the american leadership didn't know it would increase the aggresiveness of Japan. You have to understand something though, Pearl Harbor was a big deal in the 40's because sneak attacks weren't done! The normal policy of war in those days was to declare war (before attacking) and pull your diplomats from the country. Japan did neither. Had they done what was common policy at the time pearl harbor wouldn't have happened. We would have been ready. Japan and the US both knew war between them was an eventuality, but the US was hoping to end the war in europe before starting a war in the pacific. But Pearl solidified the US publics resolve to conquer Japan.
<< This only reinforces the theory that the pearl harbour attack was expected all along by the US. >>
It wasn't expected because Japan hadn't declared war. They violated the policies of war at the time (as america saw them anyway). America didn't expect the attack, in fact radar had recently been installed at Pearl (a couple months before I believe) and the tech manning the station saw the attack coming (about 10min before the plans arrived) and the american leadership just figured the thing wasn't working right (they didn't trust radar, too new of technology). The reason all the ships were raised and fixed so quickly is because most weren't damaged severly (with one hit or less), and the harbor at Pearl is fairly shallow (the smoke stacks on the arizona still stick out of the water).
Until midway the US was very much on the defensive, if we had lost midway we may have lost the war. We sunk 4 of Japans carriers at the battle of midway and only lost one of our own (only barely lost it too). Carriers later turned to play a very decisive role in the victory of the US (part of the reason Nimitz now has a carrier named after him).
NFS4:
None of that is true. Don't listen to those loonies. They were just trying to get to L.A. for the sushi bars. Sheesh! Revisionist pigs all over the place.
None of that is true. Don't listen to those loonies. They were just trying to get to L.A. for the sushi bars. Sheesh! Revisionist pigs all over the place.
To get back to the original question, another reason was that they thought they were invincible. Take a look back in history and they have never lost a significant battle until WWII. Jimmy Doolittle helped put an end to that when he led his B-25's on the first attack on Tokyo. I would also believe we knew about Pearl Harbor incident before it happened. FDR was just playing the crowd to get re-elected (in his 'we will remain nuetral speech') then have an excuse get involved later.
Did you know that Japanese and Chinese are actually related
sort of like England and America
China sent them to an island long long ago.
100 men, 100 women.
Took them awhile there to populate.
They got pissed man, and say what the hell why you sent us here to die!!!
Puny island hehe, not enought land for them to make a living so
they invaded china later when they grow strong.
Why do you think they have similar written character and
then later developed more advanced writing called katana and hirigina
They killed alot of chinese when they invaded too many chinese I guess
hehe compared to their puny population they could never kill us all!!!
Am I funny or what?
To anwser your question
They allied with hitler, that bastard.
He wanted to kill everyone and anyone that get in his way
Are they evil?
very, put million of people into concentration camp
and make them die very slowly.
The american was minding their own business they didn't care until
attacked from the butt at parl harbor it like a warning sign
a mistake they make causing the U.S. to do some serious research
making atomic bomb and bye bye goes japan cause it more threatning then hitler who is too busy conquering neighborhood
Japan and German, the 2 are so alike they're both smart and evil and cunning and went too far.
The truth we couldn't win at all without better technology
cause at war they were far skilled and could trade 1 for 100 lives
They were crazy in war, some of them so proud too during the war
proud to die too hehe
I have to say they are just lucky to be alive till these day
could be an island occupied by Chinese instead today hehehehe
I'm sure the Chinese could use that island for some relaxation
make good money for tourist attraction too.
As you can tell china is overpopulated and the land ain't big enought for them.
sort of like England and America
China sent them to an island long long ago.
100 men, 100 women.
Took them awhile there to populate.
They got pissed man, and say what the hell why you sent us here to die!!!
Puny island hehe, not enought land for them to make a living so
they invaded china later when they grow strong.
Why do you think they have similar written character and
then later developed more advanced writing called katana and hirigina
They killed alot of chinese when they invaded too many chinese I guess
hehe compared to their puny population they could never kill us all!!!
Am I funny or what?
To anwser your question
They allied with hitler, that bastard.
He wanted to kill everyone and anyone that get in his way
Are they evil?
very, put million of people into concentration camp
and make them die very slowly.
The american was minding their own business they didn't care until
attacked from the butt at parl harbor it like a warning sign
a mistake they make causing the U.S. to do some serious research
making atomic bomb and bye bye goes japan cause it more threatning then hitler who is too busy conquering neighborhood
Japan and German, the 2 are so alike they're both smart and evil and cunning and went too far.
The truth we couldn't win at all without better technology
cause at war they were far skilled and could trade 1 for 100 lives
They were crazy in war, some of them so proud too during the war
proud to die too hehe
I have to say they are just lucky to be alive till these day
could be an island occupied by Chinese instead today hehehehe
I'm sure the Chinese could use that island for some relaxation
make good money for tourist attraction too.
As you can tell china is overpopulated and the land ain't big enought for them.
HannibalX
Diamond Member
- May 12, 2000
- 9,359
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NFS4
Well, in history class we leanred that the Japs wanted to capture the oil fields of the south pacific to fuel their tanks, plains and automobiles.
The US was in the Philipines at the time, and Japan knew we would not let them have the Philipines or any of the other territory around there if they started a big invasion.
The Japs were thinking, that if they could destroy the pacific naval fleet in one blow, the Americans would be out of the fight long enough to set a strong foot hold in the south pacific. The Japs never thought they could "beat" America, just take them out of the fight for a while so they could get on equal terf, or make the Americans think the great loss they have taken already is too much and just stay out of it.
Unfortunatly our air craft carriers were not at Pearl when they attacked, but out destroyers were. Yammamoto realised then that the war was already over for Japs becuase the carriers didn't get taken out - and essentialy he was correct.
When we finaly pushed the Japs all the way back to their little hunk of rock, we had two options. We could A.) Invade main land Japan which would most likely kill 8 Million Japaneese (half Soldiers hald Citizens) and 2 Million American Marines and/or GI's. Abviously 10 million body count was not an option, so obtion B was considered. Option B) Find two small industrial citizies vital to Japanese war effort and nutruelize them with a Nucluer attack.
Some say dropping the Nuke was wrong, but I don't think so at all. It was either that or estimated 10 mill dead, and many peope complain about the 400,000 thou that we killed in the two cities. Hwever you have to realise 400,000 thou is a lot less than 10 mil, AND they picked the fight with us in the first place - what did they think we were not going to fight back? And Annihilate them?
"I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant, and filled him with a horrible resolved" Japanese Naval Admiral Yammamoto speaking about the Americans after the Attack on Pearl Harbor.
I dunno if this has all been said yet cus I didn't read the thread, but oh well - don't get on my case
Well, in history class we leanred that the Japs wanted to capture the oil fields of the south pacific to fuel their tanks, plains and automobiles.
The US was in the Philipines at the time, and Japan knew we would not let them have the Philipines or any of the other territory around there if they started a big invasion.
The Japs were thinking, that if they could destroy the pacific naval fleet in one blow, the Americans would be out of the fight long enough to set a strong foot hold in the south pacific. The Japs never thought they could "beat" America, just take them out of the fight for a while so they could get on equal terf, or make the Americans think the great loss they have taken already is too much and just stay out of it.
Unfortunatly our air craft carriers were not at Pearl when they attacked, but out destroyers were. Yammamoto realised then that the war was already over for Japs becuase the carriers didn't get taken out - and essentialy he was correct.
When we finaly pushed the Japs all the way back to their little hunk of rock, we had two options. We could A.) Invade main land Japan which would most likely kill 8 Million Japaneese (half Soldiers hald Citizens) and 2 Million American Marines and/or GI's. Abviously 10 million body count was not an option, so obtion B was considered. Option B) Find two small industrial citizies vital to Japanese war effort and nutruelize them with a Nucluer attack.
Some say dropping the Nuke was wrong, but I don't think so at all. It was either that or estimated 10 mill dead, and many peope complain about the 400,000 thou that we killed in the two cities. Hwever you have to realise 400,000 thou is a lot less than 10 mil, AND they picked the fight with us in the first place - what did they think we were not going to fight back? And Annihilate them?
"I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant, and filled him with a horrible resolved" Japanese Naval Admiral Yammamoto speaking about the Americans after the Attack on Pearl Harbor.
I dunno if this has all been said yet cus I didn't read the thread, but oh well - don't get on my case
There is also a movie made awhile back but dont know how accurate it is either
In short Japanese and Chinese are same race but different culture
Notice how they sound so similar?
Korea, phillipine,Taiwan, laos, Vietnam are all tanned skin people.
Sort of like france, porchugees, german, italy, united kingdom
The dark skin people are Cambodia, Africa, and India, Egypt, and American India.
Now you have from lightest which is England
and to darkest, Africa, next down is India, and after that Cambodia
In short Japanese and Chinese are same race but different culture
Notice how they sound so similar?
Korea, phillipine,Taiwan, laos, Vietnam are all tanned skin people.
Sort of like france, porchugees, german, italy, united kingdom
The dark skin people are Cambodia, Africa, and India, Egypt, and American India.
Now you have from lightest which is England
and to darkest, Africa, next down is India, and after that Cambodia
The truth is we couldn't win at all without better technology
cause at war they were far skilled and could trade 1 for 100 lives
Their puny island is extremely weak to aerial assault
It is overpopulated at the time like China
So a puny bomb can kill alot while in the U.S. it the other way around.
This bomb was also an experiment and they had to pick someone to use it on.
Japan got what they asked for and they are so pleased until these day
they are now more tamed then ever as well.
cause at war they were far skilled and could trade 1 for 100 lives
Their puny island is extremely weak to aerial assault
It is overpopulated at the time like China
So a puny bomb can kill alot while in the U.S. it the other way around.
This bomb was also an experiment and they had to pick someone to use it on.
Japan got what they asked for and they are so pleased until these day
they are now more tamed then ever as well.
They did the same to you like they did to China.
Attack without any warning whatsoever.
Took china by surprise too and conquered nearly half of it
by the time
We are of chinese descendant dude and we know more about them then you ever will cause all you got is that they attacked you at pearl harbor etc, and nothing about how they become Japan and how they originated.
Your history says nothing much about them other then that.
But our history goes back thousand of year further then that.
That 200 yrs is nothing.
Like I said the american didn't give a crap until they were attacked themselve.
Attack without any warning whatsoever.
Took china by surprise too and conquered nearly half of it
by the time
We are of chinese descendant dude and we know more about them then you ever will cause all you got is that they attacked you at pearl harbor etc, and nothing about how they become Japan and how they originated.
Your history says nothing much about them other then that.
But our history goes back thousand of year further then that.
That 200 yrs is nothing.
Like I said the american didn't give a crap until they were attacked themselve.
HannibalX
Diamond Member
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American technology was not only supirior - but overwelming at the same time. The US was able to produce 1000+ ships supply ships a day as well as 300 attack ships.
We landed 75 thousand Marines in some cases on a single island. The Japanese were out numbered, and out gunned. Now on the issue of which soldiers were more skilled, I again would say the Americas - better equiped, better trained, better moral support, better rations = a stonger more intiligent soldier.
We landed 75 thousand Marines in some cases on a single island. The Japanese were out numbered, and out gunned. Now on the issue of which soldiers were more skilled, I again would say the Americas - better equiped, better trained, better moral support, better rations = a stonger more intiligent soldier.
You also have to remember our population at the time was many more time then theirs and we have very big regional advantage.
Sometime having more people that is unskilled vs skilled Japanese
put them at a disadvantage
I'm afriad American were just average joe that were just given
guns and uniform immediately with little training.
The chinese at the time thought they could beat japanese using Kung-FU
but they were all shot to dead before coming within range.
They then slaughter their family and everyone including children, baby
and even pregnant women.
They never mentioned any of these in their history because they are ashame of it and didn't want anyone to know.
Sometime having more people that is unskilled vs skilled Japanese
put them at a disadvantage
I'm afriad American were just average joe that were just given
guns and uniform immediately with little training.
The chinese at the time thought they could beat japanese using Kung-FU
but they were all shot to dead before coming within range.
They then slaughter their family and everyone including children, baby
and even pregnant women.
They never mentioned any of these in their history because they are ashame of it and didn't want anyone to know.
HannibalX
Diamond Member
- May 12, 2000
- 9,359
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- 0
My grandfather was a Marine in WWII and Korea, and he got a lot more than just a uniform and a gun - he went through six months training before they eve shipped him over sees.
Kung-Fu? Thats a joke - try a .45 crammed down your throat - and while your at it, suck down a few 500 pound bombs from the doors of my B52.
They had no chance in hell, it's sad really we could have been friends, although I guess they didn't want that - and they got what was coming to them as well.
Kung-Fu? Thats a joke - try a .45 crammed down your throat - and while your at it, suck down a few 500 pound bombs from the doors of my B52.
They had no chance in hell, it's sad really we could have been friends, although I guess they didn't want that - and they got what was coming to them as well.
If the Chinese had guns do you think they would lose so easily?
You see how ridiculous how a puny island taken over China within
just 3 days.
It been over 50 years if I remember right and they have become harmless as a bug. hehe
Can't blame them for taken over economic but then again we have been buying too much from them in the past it our fault.
All we have to do is buy less from them, buy more from American and Anyone else that is.
We all know what they are doing so why not put a stop to it?
The truth is the American are more angry at Japanese then any one else cause of what they did in the past was going way toooooooooo farrrrr.
You see how ridiculous how a puny island taken over China within
just 3 days.
It been over 50 years if I remember right and they have become harmless as a bug. hehe
Can't blame them for taken over economic but then again we have been buying too much from them in the past it our fault.
All we have to do is buy less from them, buy more from American and Anyone else that is.
We all know what they are doing so why not put a stop to it?
The truth is the American are more angry at Japanese then any one else cause of what they did in the past was going way toooooooooo farrrrr.
HannibalX
Diamond Member
- May 12, 2000
- 9,359
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The Chinese invented gun poweder, they had weapons.
And as to Japans econemy - all they have done for the past 50 years is build stuff and sell stuff CHEAP for the Americans, and their econemy is BAD right now, the value of the Yen is dropping. You see the US more or less used Japan to get cheap goods.
And as to Japans econemy - all they have done for the past 50 years is build stuff and sell stuff CHEAP for the Americans, and their econemy is BAD right now, the value of the Yen is dropping. You see the US more or less used Japan to get cheap goods.
<< Did you know that Japanese and Chinese are actually related
sort of like England and America
China sent them to an island long long ago.
100 men, 100 women. >>
I remember it was the first emperor heard immortality could be found someone in the east, so he sent people out, but these people never found it, and since they knew if they went back empty handed, they would be killed, so they just populated japan.
<< http://All we have to do is buy less from them, buy more from American and Anyone else that is.
We all know what they are doing so why not put a stop to it? >>
Have you forgotten so soon? The last time we stopped buying foriegn and bought only American, it caused the freakin' Great Deppresion. The world must become more global interdependent for the United States to thrive. Trust me on this one egocentric,nationalistic Americans.
<< Trust me on this one egocentric,nationalistic Americans. >>
You're an idiot. I'm not an economics guy at all so forgive me if my information is very general. BUT, global sourcing and the "world economy" is not a new thing to any industrialized country. Why does the US send labor away from it's shores to poorer countries? To save costs, pure and simple. Why pay a union worker $40k a year when they can pay a sweat shop worker pennies a day right? Even engineering and design work is being sent to countries such as Mexico because it's cheaper. So I think the egocentric Americans have the system down pretty well dipstick, but I'll call up slick willy and give him your advice anyways. Cause We're having such a hard time thriving in the global economy.
http://www.escape.com/~paulg53/politics/great_depression.shtml
Check there for the causes of the great depression, you'll find that there was many more causes for the great depression than the "nationalistic" americans buying just U.S. goods.
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