Why the fixation with tax cuts?

[MonstaThrilla]

Another thread has made me think, why do Republicans/conservatives hate taxes so much, and then fall absolutely in love with candidates promising tax cuts? Bush used tax cuts as one of his primary platforms in 2000. During the recent California recall, McClintock basically could not reiterate his promises for tax cuts enough.

Why are tax cuts thought to be a panacea to a lagging economy? I'm no economist, but I can think of many other strategies the government can use or employ to strengthen an economy. What makes the issue of taxes so vital to our very fiber as human beings that it leads sane people to intensely hate those who don't suggest a tax cut is needed?

I guess that the American Revolution was based on the issue of "taxation-without-representation", but we're pretty well represented.

I do understand that paying taxes (income taxes especially) is no fun. I do believe the government should strive to use every penny of taxes they collect wisely and efficiently. While such a utopia will never occur, I don't think that the situation is so dire that I'm enraged about paying taxes. I think there's a certain monetary cost we should be expected to pay to live in the greatest country history has ever known. I also believe in Jesus' teachings to love thy neighbor and care of the poor and sick. The government can do a pretty good job of the latter with our tax money. If the government didn't provide those social services, then I think they wouldn't be provided at all. There's only so much charity can do. In our capital-based society, very few people find the desire to provide even a little time/money/effort to volunteer or provide charity.

And here's the million dollar question, aren't salaries adjusted to compensate with the income tax rate? I mean, if income taxes just went away, wouldn't salaries decrease accordingly?

 

[Witling]

Tax cuts are believed to be a means of shrinking the size of government. When you run out of revenue, what gets cut? Payments to bondholders (never)? Payments to poor people?

 

[Crimson]

Because I pay WAY too much in taxes.. Obviously you don't.. try this.. get married, no kids, buy a house.. Between income, property, sales, state, fees, etc.. you pay a ****load in taxes..

Why am I obsessed? Because its not the governments money.. its MINE.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Whitling
Tax cuts are believed to be a means of shrinking the size of government. When you run out of revenue, what gets cut? Payments to bondholders (never)? Payments to poor people?

Why do democrats believe that the only people who are effected by spending cuts are the poor? Thats right off page 1 in the democratic handbook on misinformation..

 

[0roo0roo]

tax cuts are fine, as long as they don't favor the rich like bush's did.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
tax cuts are fine, as long as they don't favor the rich like bush's did.

$2200 cut for a income of $70k isn't something to shrug off.

CkG

 

[XZeroII]

I am assuming you have never taken an economics class.

If you had, you would find out that there is very little that a government can do to affect the economy. There are actually only 3 ways. One of these 3 ways is through tax cuts. The way this works is like this:

Our economy 'grows' when people/business'/gov't spend money. If spending goes up, the economy goes up. If spending goes down, the economy goes down (note: this is VERY abridged). When you cut taxes, people will have more money. When people have more money, they will spend more. When people spend more, it gives more money to business' (because people buy stuff). Those business' realize an increase in profit and will in turn try to produce more. This means raises for existing employees, or they will hire more people. Either way, this means more money in the pockets of the people. When people have more money, they spend more... and thus we complete the circle.

To answer your million dollar question: I don't see why salaries would go down if income taxes went away. In fact, just the opposite would happen. If you follow my logic above, there would actually be an economic boom. Salaries and income tax are by no means directly connected. When was the last time you went into your boss' office and he said that because taxes were going up that he was giving you a raise? I bet never. In fact, odds are, he would probably tell you that becauase the higher execs and the company have to pay higher taxes, there would be less money available for you and you would not get a raise.

 

[heartsurgeon]

i can't believe the nonsense that some of you have posted...

"why do Republicans/conservatives hate taxes so much"
because Democrats use taxes for "income redistribution" purposes to suit their political objectives (re-election). their use of tax revenue is rarely
based upon doing the moral, right, thing, but rather on currying favor with those who suckle on the goverment teat.

"Why are tax cuts thought to be a panacea to a lagging economy"
every European country which has a laggard economy (which is mostly all of them nowadays) is looking at or will enact tax cuts to stimulate the economy.
democrats look at wealth as a "fixed pie", that is, the size of the wealth of the society is "fixed", so the only way for their constitutents to have a better life is to take
someone else's piece of pie and make it smaller.
republicans understand that wealth is created all the time, that the wealth pie can get bigger! more pie for everyone! the most efficient way to grow the pie
is to let society/economy/free market spend/invest its money as they see fit, not according to the whims of elected officials.

"aren't salaries adjusted to compensate with the income tax rate?"
whaaat? salaries are generated by INCOME, and reflect the value that a persons work efforts are "worth" to society. Salaries aren't "adjusted" by some salary God that
arbitrarily can increase or decrease your salary...if you work for a company, and that company pays more tax, there is less income to allocate to salaries..your salary goes down, unless yuo can somehow become more productive (worth more). If you have a sharply progressive income tax...whats the motivation to work twice as hard if your only going to make 10% more? Taxes decrease productivity.

"I don't think that the situation is so dire that I'm enraged about paying taxes"
that's because you don't pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in income tax like i do.

"tax cuts are fine, as long as they don't favor the rich like bush's did."
the "rich" are the only ones paying any taxes! if you have a tax cut...you gotta give it back to the people who pay taxes! otherwise its not a tax cut. what your proposing in
reality is increasing welfare to those who don't pay taxes to begin with!
96% of all income tax revenue comes from the upper 50% income earners!
logically ( i know thats hard for some of you to grasp), if you have a tax cut, the upper 50% are going to get back the most money because they payed in almost ALL the income tax revenue collected. the liberal mantra "favoring the rich" is totally illogical..you can't "cut" taxes on people who don't pay any!

what you're really saying is i don't have a problem if you tax somebody else so i can get more goverment assistance. please don't try and wrap your greed up in some sort of
morally superior veneer...you're free to argue that people with higher incomes should pay more taxes, and i'm free to argue the opposite. but if you try to imply that "rich" people are morally inferior, i'm going to claim the opposite.

we live in a country where even the "poor" live considerably better than most people in other parts of the world.
we live in a country where "conservatives" and "rich" people pay plenty in taxes, and contribute plenty to charity (i do)
i don't know anyone who is employed by a "poor" person.
i don't know any "poor" people running companies that create wealth.

fixation with tax cuts? ITS MY MONEY.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
i can't believe the nonsense that some of you have posted...

"why do Republicans/conservatives hate taxes so much"
because Democrats use taxes for "income redistribution" purposes to suit their political objectives (re-election). their use of tax revenue is rarely
based upon doing the moral, right, thing, but rather on currying favor with those who suckle on the goverment teat.

"Why are tax cuts thought to be a panacea to a lagging economy"
every European country which has a laggard economy (which is mostly all of them nowadays) is looking at or will enact tax cuts to stimulate the economy.
democrats look at wealth as a "fixed pie", that is, the size of the wealth of the society is "fixed", so the only way for their constitutents to have a better life is to take
someone else's piece of pie and make it smaller.
republicans understand that wealth is created all the time, that the wealth pie can get bigger! more pie for everyone! the most efficient way to grow the pie
is to let society/economy/free market spend/invest its money as they see fit, not according to the whims of elected officials.

"aren't salaries adjusted to compensate with the income tax rate?"
whaaat? salaries are generated by INCOME, and reflect the value that a persons work efforts are "worth" to society. Salaries aren't "adjusted" by some salary God that
arbitrarily can increase or decrease your salary...if you work for a company, and that company pays more tax, there is less income to allocate to salaries..your salary goes down, unless yuo can somehow become more productive (worth more). If you have a sharply progressive income tax...whats the motivation to work twice as hard if your only going to make 10% more? Taxes decrease productivity.

"I don't think that the situation is so dire that I'm enraged about paying taxes"
that's because you don't pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in income tax like i do.


now, the actual effect of taxes, is to make a person's salary go down....

Hundreds of thousands per year??? What are you, a heart surgeon or something?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I am assuming you have never taken an economics class.

If you had, you would find out that there is very little that a government can do to affect the economy. There are actually only 3 ways. One of these 3 ways is through tax cuts. The way this works is like this:

Our economy 'grows' when people/business'/gov't spend money. If spending goes up, the economy goes up. If spending goes down, the economy goes down (note: this is VERY abridged). When you cut taxes, people will have more money. When people have more money, they will spend more. When people spend more, it gives more money to business' (because people buy stuff). Those business' realize an increase in profit and will in turn try to produce more. This means raises for existing employees, or they will hire more people. Either way, this means more money in the pockets of the people. When people have more money, they spend more... and thus we complete the circle.

To answer your million dollar question: I don't see why salaries would go down if income taxes went away. In fact, just the opposite would happen. If you follow my logic above, there would actually be an economic boom. Salaries and income tax are by no means directly connected. When was the last time you went into your boss' office and he said that because taxes were going up that he was giving you a raise? I bet never. In fact, odds are, he would probably tell you that becauase the higher execs and the company have to pay higher taxes, there would be less money available for you and you would not get a raise.

This ought to shoot your "abridged" Economics lesson.

10-27-2003 Affluent Gain Confidence, Slow to Spend

The affluent increasingly see stocks as the best investment vehicle for high returns over the next three months, while fewer now favor real estate.

However, only 30 percent of respondents actually plan to increase their investments in the next three months and 27 percent intend to reduce them.

There were also signs that business investment may be leveling off.

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
tax cuts are fine, as long as they don't favor the rich like bush's did.

Pehaps you should read about how taxes work.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Whitling
Tax cuts are believed to be a means of shrinking the size of government. When you run out of revenue, what gets cut? Payments to bondholders (never)? Payments to poor people?

Why do democrats believe that the only people who are effected by spending cuts are the poor? Thats right off page 1 in the democratic handbook on misinformation..

There's a handbook? Holy crap! Amazon link?

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: XZeroII
I am assuming you have never taken an economics class.

If you had, you would find out that there is very little that a government can do to affect the economy. There are actually only 3 ways. One of these 3 ways is through tax cuts. The way this works is like this:

Our economy 'grows' when people/business'/gov't spend money. If spending goes up, the economy goes up. If spending goes down, the economy goes down (note: this is VERY abridged). When you cut taxes, people will have more money. When people have more money, they will spend more. When people spend more, it gives more money to business' (because people buy stuff). Those business' realize an increase in profit and will in turn try to produce more. This means raises for existing employees, or they will hire more people. Either way, this means more money in the pockets of the people. When people have more money, they spend more... and thus we complete the circle.

To answer your million dollar question: I don't see why salaries would go down if income taxes went away. In fact, just the opposite would happen. If you follow my logic above, there would actually be an economic boom. Salaries and income tax are by no means directly connected. When was the last time you went into your boss' office and he said that because taxes were going up that he was giving you a raise? I bet never. In fact, odds are, he would probably tell you that becauase the higher execs and the company have to pay higher taxes, there would be less money available for you and you would not get a raise.

This ought to shoot your "abridged" Economics lesson.

10-27-2003 Affluent Gain Confidence, Slow to Spend

The affluent increasingly see stocks as the best investment vehicle for high returns over the next three months, while fewer now favor real estate.

However, only 30 percent of respondents actually plan to increase their investments in the next three months and 27 percent intend to reduce them.

There were also signs that business investment may be leveling off.

If there were a 100% reliable way to reverse an recession, we would never actually have a recession. What I'm saying is economic theory. It may take years to see the results of these increases, if they even take shape. I was simply stating why there is a fixation with tax cuts.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Because I pay WAY too much in taxes.. Obviously you don't.. try this.. get married, no kids, buy a house.. Between income, property, sales, state, fees, etc.. you pay a ****load in taxes..

Why am I obsessed? Because its not the governments money.. its MINE.

So why don't you move to a country with a more favorable tax climate? I am serious. We all make choices in life. If too many people leave the US because our tax "burden" is too high, the government will respond. The same principle applies to businesses. Until then, it seems like some 260 million people including you and me have decided that it's worth the tax cost to live here.

Why? Because it's awfully difficult for most people to make a decent income in those countries that have minimal taxes. Our taxes pay for the infrastructure and the progressive economic climate that enables us to make so much money. The problem is too many people are too greedy. They demand the benefits of living in the U.S. but they expect everyone else to pay for it. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Because I pay WAY too much in taxes.. Obviously you don't.. try this.. get married, no kids, buy a house.. Between income, property, sales, state, fees, etc.. you pay a ****load in taxes..

Why am I obsessed? Because its not the governments money.. its MINE.

Then why don't you quit your good job, go to work at a Wal-Mart or McDonald's? I am serious. If you find your tax "burden" unacceptably high, you can cut it dramatically by earning less money. Not only will the government take fewer of your dollars, they will take a smaller percentage of your dollars. You win two ways.

Oh. Not what you had in mind? You want a big paycheck and low taxes? Tough break. We all make choices in life. If you chose a good career to make more money, you also made a choice about taxes. The two go hand in hand.

 

[Bowfinger]

In my opinion, people who whine about their horrible tax burden are selfish and greedy. Instead of focusing on all the money you get to earn and all the money you get to keep, all you can do is p!ss and moan about the piece you have to pay the government. Of course you aren't willing to live without the extraordinary benefits of living in the U.S. You just don't think you should have to pay for it.

Put up or shut up. If it's so bad, you can choose to change it, just as I suggested above. Leave the country and make less money ... you will cut your taxes. If, on the other hand, you are unwilling to give up your fat paychecks and your over-indulged lifestyles, then grow up and accept your responsibilities as a human being and an American.

 

[Jmman]

This is a funny list, and I am sure the source has an agenda, but it still helps make a point.......Text I am sure there are other taxes that this list missed also.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Whitling
Tax cuts are believed to be a means of shrinking the size of government. When you run out of revenue, what gets cut? Payments to bondholders (never)? Payments to poor people?

Why do democrats believe that the only people who are effected by spending cuts are the poor? Thats right off page 1 in the democratic handbook on misinformation..

There's a handbook? Holy crap! Amazon link?

:Q

CkG

 

[SuperTool]

Republicans care about themselves more than they care about the USA. They don't care if the country is getting into huge debts as long as they are getting a tax cut.
Also, they want to live in lalaland, where the government doesn't do anything but fight wars, and think the government will spend less if it does it on credit instead of paying out of pocket.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Jmman
This is a funny list, and I am sure the source has an agenda, but it still helps make a point.......Text I am sure there are other taxes that this list missed also.

It is obvious now: the US must return to 1903's standard of living right away. That will take care of all the problems!

 

[heartsurgeon]

In my opinion, people who whine about their horrible tax burden are selfish and greedy

Republicans care about themselves more than they care about the USA

remember the liberal mantra..
call your opposition a moron, immoral, and a liar, always attach the individual, never debate facts.
you will hear this theme over and over again from liberals.

using your own tactics, one might respond as follows:

well, people who suckle from the goverment teat for their nourishment and now have the gaul to claim they aren't "getting their fair share" and want taxes raised, are lazy, greedy good-for-nothings that should move to North Korea or Cuba where the goverment "provides for ALL your needs"

democrats are the one's that talk about "leaving the country" if their candidate isn't elected...so go ahead a leave now, cus Bush is getting re-elected.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Crimson
Because I pay WAY too much in taxes.. Obviously you don't.. try this.. get married, no kids, buy a house.. Between income, property, sales, state, fees, etc.. you pay a ****load in taxes..

Why am I obsessed? Because its not the governments money.. its MINE.

So why don't you move to a country with a more favorable tax climate? I am serious. We all make choices in life. If too many people leave the US because our tax "burden" is too high, the government will respond. The same principle applies to businesses. Until then, it seems like some 260 million people including you and me have decided that it's worth the tax cost to live here.

Why? Because it's awfully difficult for most people to make a decent income in those countries that have minimal taxes. Our taxes pay for the infrastructure and the progressive economic climate that enables us to make so much money. The problem is too many people are too greedy. They demand the benefits of living in the U.S. but they expect everyone else to pay for it. It doesn't work that way.

"The problem is too many people are too greedy. They demand the benefits of living in the U.S. but they expect everyone else to pay for it. It doesn't work that way."

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Crimson
Because I pay WAY too much in taxes.. Obviously you don't.. try this.. get married, no kids, buy a house.. Between income, property, sales, state, fees, etc.. you pay a ****load in taxes..

Why am I obsessed? Because its not the governments money.. its MINE.

So why don't you move to a country with a more favorable tax climate? I am serious. We all make choices in life. If too many people leave the US because our tax "burden" is too high, the government will respond. The same principle applies to businesses. Until then, it seems like some 260 million people including you and me have decided that it's worth the tax cost to live here.

Why? Because it's awfully difficult for most people to make a decent income in those countries that have minimal taxes. Our taxes pay for the infrastructure and the progressive economic climate that enables us to make so much money. The problem is too many people are too greedy. They demand the benefits of living in the U.S. but they expect everyone else to pay for it. It doesn't work that way.

"The problem is too many people are too greedy. They demand the benefits of living in the U.S. but they expect everyone else to pay for it. It doesn't work that way."

Well said.

Now all we have to is implement a flat tax and we can all do that.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

In my opinion, people who whine about their horrible tax burden are selfish and greedy

Republicans care about themselves more than they care about the USA

remember the liberal mantra..
call your opposition a moron, immoral, and a liar, always attach the individual, never debate facts.
you will hear this theme over and over again from liberals.

using your own tactics, one might respond as follows:

well, people who suckle from the goverment teat for their nourishment and now have the gaul to claim they aren't "getting their fair share" and want taxes raised, are lazy, greedy good-for-nothings that should move to North Korea or Cuba where the goverment "provides for ALL your needs"

democrats are the one's that talk about "leaving the country" if their candidate isn't elected...so go ahead a leave now, cus Bush is getting re-elected.

Yes dear. Whatever you say. I note that you dodged the issues I raised. Isn't it about time for another one of your Hillary rants?

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

remember the liberal mantra..
call your opposition a moron, immoral, and a liar, always attach the individual, never debate facts.

I know I'm going slightly off topic here but you know damn well liberals can call the republicans all of those labels and have the facts to back it up. Especially when it comes to the Bush administration