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Why Stay with Intel?

S

solrac

Member
When currently from what I can see that AMD XP processors are producing better numbers than intel counter part. They are cheaper from what I can tell.

Currently I have the task of redoing my PC I been using intel cpus for ever and not sure If I should consider switching? I hear that the new intel CPUS 3Ghz with HT are really going be a great leap forward. And AMD is going to come out with the Hammer (not sure if thats the correct name) in Sprint 03.

Here is my situation
I burnt my motherboard and CPU abit bh6 700MHZ OC to 866 MHZ. So I need a replacement system now. I have a Shuttle AKT31V2.0 in my closet that I was given (which supports the AMD XP processors).

Which is currently the most overclockable CPU? Intel or AMD?

I am assuming that using PC3500 memory will do better than just using PC2700? I am thinking going with 512Mb Corsair or OCZ memory. I know it costs more but memory I think is the root of all evils when it comes to system stability even if not OC'd. Unless someone can recommend one versus the other? I have mushkin memory in my system now and it never failed me.

And I am totally out of date on motherboards but I was thinking of Abit MAX2 family but I am not for sure on it? All I want from the motherboard is ability to hold memory and CPU and be stable. I want to use a external Video card, and have a DPT SCSI Raid controller 64Mb of ram so I won't be using the EIDE part of it, I have a 2940UW for my Tape Drive, CD-RW, and CD.

Currently have a Geforce 2 DDR which is pretty good but I figured I might as well upgrade that as well 🙂 I am thinking Nvidia 4 4200 64Mb?

So whats the new dream overclockers system that does not include water cooling?

Oh I have a Super Micro Tower case with something like 8 fans on it already (4 on drive bays, 2 sucking air in, 2 sucking air out) plus the CPU fans and Video card fan. And thats what I am goign to put everything into (well just actually replace the motherboard, CPU, memory, and possibly video card.
 
CPU: I'd think of getting one of the tbred AthlonXPs 1700+ from newegg since you already have a motherboard. Most people who jumped in on them got a nice OC out of them (assuming you have a good heatsink).

RAM: I'd stay away from OCZ, stick with Samsung Original and Corsair. You can go as high as you want with the RAM, but keep in mind that the Athlon's system bus runs at 133 MHz (or 166 MHz for some TBred-b's) so you probably won't see a huge boost from using PC3500... I wouldn't bother with anything above PC3200C2, by the way, it's pretty much a waste of money for Athlons

Video Card: I'd wait for the Radeon 9500's to into retail channels, and get that. It shouldn't be too expensive and judging by Anand's latest review, it is faster than the Ti4200.

If you're willing to spring for a new motherboard, I'd look into either getting a 2.0 GHz C1- stepping P4 + Granite Bay mobo + 2*256MB PC2700 (people have been hitting around 3 GHz with these) or an 2400+ + 2*PC2700 + nForce2. Either way, those two should OC well. As for brand, I really like my Epox and from what I've read, many others feel that way too 🙂

*edit* cooling wise, the retail P4-heatsink seems tobe sufficient for most. For an Athlon, the Thermaltake SLK-800 is top of the line while the AX-7 is priced more reasonably while still offering good preformance
 
AMD is a h@ll of a deal--BUT---The problem is the heat and the noise produced by all the fans. My overclocked P4 has a no-name 350 watt power supply, the stock Intel HSF and no extra case fans. You can't tell it on most of the time. R
 
Well, you can always get an AX-7 and a quiet fan for pretty cheap, and the "AMD noise" issue isnt a problem.
 
if you do get a GF4 ti4200 spring for the 128mb version it's worth the few extra dollars
but like RaynorWolfcastle said the radeon 9500 pro looks good if the price is comparable
if you go the amd route i would recommend an nforce2 board and either an xp 1700+ or 2400+ T-bred depending on how much you wanna spend
if you can get a good copper base heatsink

i second the stay away from ocz recommendation
corsair xms is good stuff

the 3ghz P4 just costs too much and the granite bay is just a wannabe nforce for the P4 platform
 
Originally posted by: Soulkeeper
if you do get a GF4 ti4200 spring for the 128mb version it's worth the few extra dollars
but like RaynorWolfcastle said the radeon 9500 pro looks good if the price is comparable
if you go the amd route i would recommend an nforce2 board and either an xp 1700+ or 2400+ T-bred depending on how much you wanna spend
if you can get a good copper base heatsink

i second the stay away from ocz recommendation
corsair xms is good stuff

the 3ghz P4 just costs too much and the granite bay is just a wannabe nforce for the P4 platform
Click to expand...

I dunno about it being a "wannabe" nForce seeing as how the only thing they have in common is the DC DDR which actually makes sense on the GB since the P4 can actually make use of it 😉 Besides, for overclocking it kicks the other P4 chipset's rear.

Right now, P4 Northwood chips overclock better than the Athlons but the Athlon XP 1600+ Palomino and 1700+ TBred chips overclock quite nicesly, as well.
 
When currently from what I can see that AMD XP processors are producing better numbers than intel counter part. They are cheaper from what I can tell.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you get this....Intel still has performance crown and the fact that I can't find (and likely you as well) and 2800+ chips to buy at pricewatch along when many of the nforce2 mobos for you to even get numbers close to the ones done in reviews showing amd close o Intel....Do some more research next time....

Also since once again I see very few ppl ocing these 2400 and 2600+ xps much past 2.3ghz-2.4ghz I don't think they even hold the ocing advantage.....

Price!!! look at pricewatch a 2.8ghz p4 is 382.00 for a 3year warranty and hsf included....while the 2700+xp is 340.00 and it is only oem chip with no hsf and 15-30day warranty....The only retail OI found was 372.00 dollars for 3 years w/ hsf....So guess what a 2800+ would come in as!!!!

At the 2400 and 2600 level again intel is right there in price....

the advantage of the lower 1600 and 1700+ are very nice but they are no greater then say my 1.6a I paid 130 for and the soon to be showing up c1 stepping1.8a chips that should hit 3-3.2ghz with reasonable vcopre and air cooling....




the 3ghz P4 just costs too much and the granite bay is just a wannabe nforce for the P4 platform
Click to expand...


I expect this lame comment from you...oh too bad, I think you already used that negative rating on me!!!!🙁

As crazysaint has stated the athlon cannot effectively take advanatge of all that bandwidth even if ppl unlocked them and jacked the fsb up to 200....The GB for intel can use the bandwidth... am not happy with the initial high price but it will come down as mainly the only offering I am seeing is from asus that is notorioulsy high always!!!
 
If you already have a motherboard that has decent overclocking options, then the T-bred 1700+ or XP 1600+ will do nicely. The t-bred is consistently hitting 1900MHz on air and the AGOIA 1600+ 1800MHz. An AX7 with a quiet 80mm fan will cool either fine.
 
Its not just the bechmarks that determin how fast a system is. The way it feels opening and closing windows, having multiple programs running at the same time. THe AMD blows for anything other than gaming ang general office stuff. I have tested both side by side. Benchmarks are about the same yet the P4 will unpack, pack rar files, video encoding etc. in half the time it take my amd based system. And yes with everything the same except for MB/CPU. Just my $.02 worth.🙂😉
 
Originally posted by: Duvie
When currently from what I can see that AMD XP processors are producing better numbers than intel counter part. They are cheaper from what I can tell.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you get this....Intel still has performance crown and the fact that I can't find (and likely you as well) and 2800+ chips to buy at pricewatch along when many of the nforce2 mobos for you to even get numbers close to the ones done in reviews showing amd close o Intel....Do some more research next time....

Also since once again I see very few ppl ocing these 2400 and 2600+ xps much past 2.3ghz-2.4ghz I don't think they even hold the ocing advantage.....

Price!!! look at pricewatch a 2.8ghz p4 is 382.00 for a 3year warranty and hsf included....while the 2700+xp is 340.00 and it is only oem chip with no hsf and 15-30day warranty....The only retail OI found was 372.00 dollars for 3 years w/ hsf....So guess what a 2800+ would come in as!!!!

At the 2400 and 2600 level again intel is right there in price....

the advantage of the lower 1600 and 1700+ are very nice but they are no greater then say my 1.6a I paid 130 for and the soon to be showing up c1 stepping1.8a chips that should hit 3-3.2ghz with reasonable vcopre and air cooling....




the 3ghz P4 just costs too much and the granite bay is just a wannabe nforce for the P4 platform
Click to expand...


I expect this lame comment from you...oh too bad, I think you already used that negative rating on me!!!!🙁

As crazysaint has stated the athlon cannot effectively take advanatge of all that bandwidth even if ppl unlocked them and jacked the fsb up to 200....The GB for intel can use the bandwidth... am not happy with the initial high price but it will come down as mainly the only offering I am seeing is from asus that is notorioulsy high always!!!
Click to expand...

AGP errata in the GB chipset is an issue, and the Canterwood is out in less than 6 months. I don't see how the enthusiast crowd can afford to chance it on GB.
 
Originally posted by: Duvie
When currently from what I can see that AMD XP processors are producing better numbers than intel counter part. They are cheaper from what I can tell.
Click to expand...

I don't know where you get this....Intel still has performance crown and the fact that I can't find (and likely you as well) and 2800+ chips to buy at pricewatch along when many of the nforce2 mobos for you to even get numbers close to the ones done in reviews showing amd close o Intel....Do some more research next time....
Click to expand...

Newegg has the 2800+ chips, though that only half counts since you have to buy a whole motherboard to go along with it.
 
Both CPU's are good
Intel overclocks more if you are into that, but AMD runs great at stock speeds, they do overclock good (some of them) but Intel has the advantage here. I went Intel last because I wanted in on the hardcore overclocking of the 1.8A northwoods. a 1GHz speed jump is pretty slick. 😀

to each his own
AMD is cheap, and is fast at normal speeds, and overclocks good.
Intel is expensive, is not as fast at stock speeds (except for the highest CPUs) but overclocks like a mofo.
 
Originally posted by: Yield
Both CPU's are good
Intel overclocks more if you are into that, but AMD runs great at stock speeds, they do overclock good (some of them) but Intel has the advantage here. I went Intel last because I wanted in on the hardcore overclocking of the 1.8A northwoods. a 1GHz speed jump is pretty slick. 😀

to each his own
AMD is cheap, and is fast at normal speeds, and overclocks good.
Intel is expensive, is not as fast at stock speeds (except for the highest CPUs) but overclocks like a mofo.
Click to expand...

Wot he said.😉
 
Originally posted by: Soulkeeper
GB is just a wannabe Nforce for the P4
nice try intel
Click to expand...

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you already said that. Then we brought up some points about your statement. So do you think maybe you could respond to our points instead of repeating yourself?
 
Originally posted by: orion7144
Its not just the bechmarks that determin how fast a system is. The way it feels opening and closing windows, having multiple programs running at the same time. THe AMD blows for anything other than gaming ang general office stuff. I have tested both side by side. Benchmarks are about the same yet the P4 will unpack, pack rar files, video encoding etc. in half the time it take my amd based system. And yes with everything the same except for MB/CPU. Just my $.02 worth.🙂😉
Click to expand...

If you were comparing two systems of equal speed in benchmarks there is no way the P4 should have been "twice as fast". I don't have a P4 system, so maybe more people can jump in with an opinion. But my understanding is the P4 is definately the fastest cpu out there in the top end. But when you compare a PR rated AMD to the same MHz rated P4, they pretty well split the benchmarks. I have seen quite a few posters comment that the Athlon felt snappier in most Windows applications, even when falling behind in the benchmarks. Again, I don't have both side by side, but maybe someone who does can add their knowledge on the subject.
 
Ignore all the "my dad can beat up your dad" crap.
You have a motherboard that supports AMD CPU's, so I say use that, get one of the XP's from newegg that everyone's talking about and overclock it... from what I hear, the average overclock is around the speed of an Athlon XP2000.
Yes, Intel has the performance crown right now, yes AMD is normally less expensive. But it was said before that AMD motherboards cost more than Intel motherboards... so since you already have one, go with AMD.
And about the video card, if the 9500 is faster than the Ti4200, so what? nVidia's driver support is more than enough reason for me to choose a GF4 over a 9500.
If you decide to go with a GF4 Ti4200, definately get the 128 mb one. Textures in games are increasing in size, and while you maybe not notice the difference between a 64 mb card and a 128 mb card, or even notice the 64 mb one is faster (faster RAM clock) right now... the 128 mb version will outlast the 64 mb version.
I have a Gainward Golden Sample 4200... and as you can see in my profile, it easily accepts a hefty overclock.

To sum it up... you don't need the absolute fastest unless you have $2500 you can afford to throw at the latest technology. Go with the most bang for your buck, which in my opinion is AMD and nVidia.
 
both p4 and xp are very good processors. I"d say overall the product lines are about par. THe problem with p4 is that the motherboards suck. REally there is so many duds. And also each mobo is only current with the latest processors for only 6 months. EAch board seems to have one huge drawback. PE is good, but no dual ddr. GB is good, but it only officially supports ddr 266(which is fine, but still). Compare this crap to the beautiful amd nforce 2 boards. I'd even go as far as saying that nforce 2 is the best chipset ever made, anyone want to argue? O well i have a p4 2.53 sitting in front of me and I still ahve no clue what to do with it.
 
Originally posted by: touchmyichi
both p4 and xp are very good processors. I"d say overall the product lines are about par. THe problem with p4 is that the motherboards suck. REally there is so many duds. And also each mobo is only current with the latest processors for only 6 months. EAch board seems to have one huge drawback. PE is good, but no dual ddr. GB is good, but it only officially supports ddr 266(which is fine, but still). Compare this crap to the beautiful amd nforce 2 boards. I'd even go as far as saying that nforce 2 is the best chipset ever made, anyone want to argue? O well i have a p4 2.53 sitting in front of me and I still ahve no clue what to do with it.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree that P4 motherboards suck. I'm very happy with my P4B533-V and also the EPoX 4G4A+. They're both as good or better than non-nForce2 AMD motherboards. As for GB "only" support DDR266, there's really no point in supporting anything higher than that since it completely satisfies the P4's memory bandwidth requirements. In fact, the DDR266 support could be seen as an advantage as you can get better performance for less money. At stock speeds, the GB is neck and neck with RDRAM PC1066, however, once you start overclocking that sucker, it blows everything else out of the water.

As for the nForce2 being a beautiful chipset, I agree 100% 🙂 It is, without a doubt, the best AMD chipset ever, with nothing else even coming close. Its enough to make me wish I could afford to build an AMD machine based on it 🙂
 
THe problem with p4 is that the motherboards suck. REally there is so many duds.
Click to expand...

What is your definition of "sucks" and "duds"? I and many others do not run out and buy a new motherboard with every chipset release, and I can live with my system being 3% slower than "the latest and greatest".

Compare this crap to the beautiful amd nforce 2 boards.
Click to expand...

Intel chipset motherboards are not generally called "crap" by anybody who loves quality and stability.

I'd even go as far as saying that nforce 2 is the best chipset ever made, anyone want to argue?
Click to expand...

What makes the Nforce2 board the "best chipset ever made"?

And also each mobo is only current with the latest processors for only 6 months.
Click to expand...

Where did you get this information because that is 100% incorrect and biased.

O well i have a p4 2.53 sitting in front of me and I still ahve no clue what to do with it.
Click to expand...

You can send it to me and I will stick it in my "crappy" dud 845E motherboard 🙂

Your entire post sounds like a AMD fanboy script.

 
Originally posted by: antiABIT

What makes the Nforce2 board the "best chipset ever made"?
Click to expand...

I don't know that its the best chipset ever, but I'd definitely say that its the best AMD chipset, by far. Here are some of the reasons:

Its up to 10% faster than the KT333/400.
It onboard audio has better features than a SB Audigy.
It has dual nics for internet/file sharing without the need for a router.
The versions with onboard graphics, have the best integrated graphics of any chipset.
The versions with onboard graphics also have built-in dual monitor support.
Integrated Firewire controller.
Ability to adjust AGP/PCI buses independently of the FSB.
There's more, but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.
 
I don't know that its the best chipset ever, but I'd definitely say that its the best AMD chipset, by far. Here are some of the reasons:
Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic towards him since his post was so informative and unbiased. It is a great chipset for AMD CPU's, but when people make claims like that they should give good reasons why they think so, instead of "Intel sucks, AMD rules" crap.

Anyways I am still a little partial towards the AMD761 chipset. That was a great chipest. Stable and fast 🙂
 
Originally posted by: antiABIT
I don't know that its the best chipset ever, but I'd definitely say that its the best AMD chipset, by far. Here are some of the reasons:
Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic towards him since his post was so informative and unbiased. It is a great chipset for AMD CPU's, but when people make claims like that they should give good reasons why they think so, instead of "Intel sucks, AMD rules" crap.

Anyways I am still a little partial towards the AMD761 chipset. That was a great chipest. Stable and fast 🙂
Click to expand...

Yes, it was a great chipset. I still want to try out a 760MPX myself! 😀😀😀
 
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