Why should we support Israel?

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PusBucket

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2004
7
0
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I'm not going to claim anything much about how Israel treats Arabs, its own citizens or others, but stop with the lies. Each Israeli citizen gets to vote. Once. And that includes the 20% of the population who are not Jewish. And women even. Go figure that one.

I don't know what you're basing your drivel on. Perhaps it's some leap of logic of the people supplying you with your arguments.

You can always check out another page from the site that was linked to at the start of this scintillating and educational thread...

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...source/myths/mf18.html
 

faiznne

Banned
Aug 29, 2004
140
0
0
You guys want to know why we continue to support Israel?
1. The Jewish-dominated U.S. media
2. AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee)
3. Neoconservatives and Evangelical Christians

A lot of Americans are misled by the media, the media portrays Muslims as "militant," "freedom-hating people," and "suicidal." It's not a surprise that Americans tend to favor the Israeli Jews over the Arab Muslims. I'm waiting for someone to say, "No one can criticize Israel or the Jews. Anyone that does is anti-Semitic." Judging by the fact that all of our major networks and media conglomerates are owned by American-Jews-- except for two (one of which, Gerald Levin-- a Jewish American-- just retired 2 years ago from AOL Time Warner).

FOX News and Time Warner are the only media comglomerates that are owned by Gentiles. It's not surprising that we would never see any news that is anti-Israeli covered on the front page. And America will continue to be biased in favor of Israel in the Middle East due to the neocons and Evangelical Christians for quite some time.

Source: http://www.natvan.com/who-rules-america/wra.pdf

And there's also the infamous "Jewish lobby" that influences American foreign policy in favor of the Israelis at the detriment of the Arabs. AIPAC-- American Israel Public Affairs Committee-- the 2nd strongest lobbying group in America, only after the NRA.

AIPAC-Influenced Pro-Israel PAC Contributions
http://www.washington-report.o.../Oct_2004/0410019.html

U.S. Aid to Israel 1948-Present
www.washington-report.org/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm

The reason Osama Bin LAden and his Muslim groupies hate us so much is cause of messed-up policy in the Middle East. Favoring the Israeli Jews over many Muslims. If I was president I would not go to war with Iraq. I don't think it's good that the USA fights Israel's wars by proxy:

Iraq War Launched to Protect Israel - Bush Advisor
Emad Mekay


Iraq under Saddam Hussein did not pose a threat to the United States but it did to Israel, which is one reason why Washington invaded the Arab country, according to a speech made by a member of a top-level White House intelligence group.

WASHINGTON, Mar 29 (IPS) - IPS uncovered the remarks by Philip Zelikow, who is now the executive director of the body set up to investigate the terrorist attacks on the United States in September 2001 -- the 9/11 commission -- in which he suggests a prime motive for the invasion just over one year ago was to eliminate a threat to Israel, a staunch U.S. ally in the Middle East.

Zelikow's casting of the attack on Iraq as one launched to protect Israel appears at odds with the public position of President George W. Bush and his administration, which has never overtly drawn the link between its war on the regime of former president Hussein and its concern for Israel's security.

The administration has instead insisted it launched the war to liberate the Iraqi people, destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and to protect the United States.

Zelikow made his statements about ?the unstated threat? during his tenure on a highly knowledgeable and well-connected body known as the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB), which reports directly to the president.

He served on the board between 2001 and 2003.

?Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I'll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 -- it's the threat against Israel,? Zelikow told a crowd at the University of Virginia on Sep. 10, 2002, speaking on a panel of foreign policy experts assessing the impact of 9/11 and the future of the war on the al-Qaeda terrorist organisation.

?And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don't care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn't want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell,? said Zelikow.

The statements are the first to surface from a source closely linked to the Bush administration acknowledging that the war, which has so far cost the lives of nearly 600 U.S. troops and thousands of Iraqis, was motivated by Washington's desire to defend the Jewish state.

Source: Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=23078

General Anthony Zinni Blames Neoconservatives And Says Their Iraq Course 'Headed Over Niagara Falls'

But, don?t take what I say at face value. Listen to the words of retired General Anthony Zinni --- no nitwit he. From 1997 to 2000, he was commander-in-chief of the U.S. Central Command. He was in charge of all American troops in the Middle East.

Following Gen. Zinni?s retirement from the Marine Corps, the Bush Administration thought so much of him that he was appointed their special envoy to the Middle East. In mid-March of 2002, President Bush said that he and Vice President D. Cheney ?both trust? Gen. Zinni. In this same month and year, Vice President Cheney called him ?a superb officer.? And in late May of this year, even after the interview I?m about to tell you about, White House press spokesman Scott McClellan said: ?We have great respect for General Zinni.?

?In one article--because I mentioned the neo-conservatives, who describe themselves as neo-conservatives, I was called anti-Semitic. I mean, you know, unbelievable that that's the kind of personal attacks that are run when you criticize a strategy of those that propose it. I certainly didn't criticize who they were. I certainly don't know what their ethnic religious backgrounds are. And I'm not interested. I know what strategy they promoted, and openly, and for a number of years, and what they have convinced the president and the secretary to do. And I don't believe there is any serious political leader, military leader, diplomat in Washington that doesn't know where it came from.?

For all of this, Gen. Zinni blames ?the civilian leadership of the Pentagon directly? and others who are so-called neoconservatives. These individuals include Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith, former Defense policy board member Richard Perle, National Security Council member Eliot Abrams, and Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby. He believes these persons are political ideologues who have hijacked American policy in Iraq. And they advocated an invasion of Iraq to, among other things, strengthen the position of Israel.

Source: http://www.peroutka2004.com/sc...tview&event_id=234
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: chess9
a. They've been a long time ally;
b. They provide a LOT of M.E. intel;
c. We feel guilty;
d. They are masters at exploiting guilt;
e. It's the right thing to do, regardless.

1. Israel is very far away from the US and has little bearing on what happens there.
2. The Middle East is a hotzone for tension and war.
3. The Isrealis have done as many bad things to the Palestinians as the Palestinians have done to them.
4. By supporting one side you're going to seriously piss off the other. In this case you're pissing off one of the world's most prominant religions.
5. Supporting Israel is encouraging terrorism against the US.
6. The "right thing to do" is to stay out of the conflict unless something like a geocide is taking place. Picking sides is stupid when you're not directly involved in the conflict.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: PusBucket
I'm not going to claim anything much about how Israel treats Arabs, its own citizens or others, but stop with the lies. Each Israeli citizen gets to vote. Once. And that includes the 20% of the population who are not Jewish. And women even. Go figure that one.

I don't know what you're basing your drivel on. Perhaps it's some leap of logic of the people supplying you with your arguments.

You can always check out another page from the site that was linked to at the start of this scintillating and educational thread...

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar...source/myths/mf18.html


yup. citizens get a vote, regardless of sex or race. something that can't be said about most any other middle eastern nation. and only citizens voting? shocking! i guess the usa isn't a democracy:p the palestinians are occupied because of the numerous wars in their name to wipe out all of israel, and their participation, and their continued use of indescrimant violence.

and don't forget about a small thing called the cold war:p
 

faiznne

Banned
Aug 29, 2004
140
0
0
The Palestinians aren't citizens in Israel. They are not allowed to vote.

It is Israel that refused to recognize the Palestinians? representative body, imposed the Oslo principles, and deferred a final settlement, while continuing to colonize and create facts on the ground. Resistance was a reaction that, via the first intifada, ended years of almost cost-free occupation. Any Palestinian could argue that were it not for this resistance, it would not have crossed the mind of any Israeli politician to consider rolling back the occupation.

http://www.lebanonwire.com/0212/02121219DS.asp
 

GMElias

Golden Member
Jan 17, 2002
1,600
0
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Originally posted by: Bumrush99
It is more of jealousy issue than anything Chess. Of course people that are unable to mobilize effective campaigns are going to cry conspiracy of Jewish power.

The truth is we support Israel for a variety of reasons, everything from having a satellite country in the Middle East that we can use to gather intel, to the effective lobbying of groups such as AIPAC. On top of that, many Christians support Israel more than most Jews here in the US. Israel must be supported at all costs to them, they truly believe that Israel will be a major player during the "apocalypse".

Israel has a developed economy with literally hundreds of tech companies and has been able to use the aid to create a very succesful society. Surrounded by enemies on all sides that have launched multiple attacks and that have been humiliated every time. People cry about the money we give Israel, but nobody realizes that the money is recycled back in to the US economy. The gvt does not give handout checks, they give money towards projects that often use US employees. Total US foreign aid makes up for less than 1% of our GDP.

It is nice to see a sound idea put forth in this thread...it is too bad that there is so much anti-Semitism among people, especially in the USA where one would think there would be a lot of free thought, and therefore, some semi-intelligent human beings. Of course there are benefits...and besides, we waste so much money in our country, why are people SO concerned with this effort. If Palestinian states and nations would shape up, maybe they would our support too.

Now, about the ridiculous issue of ?Israelis killing Arab babies?...what a twist of reality. If Arab nations didn?t ?train? their children to throw rocks, home-made bombs, etc. at Israeli military or common citizens, maybe there wouldn?t be a problem (hmmmm...wow, I can?t believe nobody ever thought of this). Secondly, how many Israeli suicide bombers do you know?? None...because they don?t exist...the Israeli military strikes at specific targets to kill know assassins. They don?t send their kids in Iraq to blow up city buses.

-Elias
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
Originally posted by: GMElias
Originally posted by: Bumrush99
It is more of jealousy issue than anything Chess. Of course people that are unable to mobilize effective campaigns are going to cry conspiracy of Jewish power.

The truth is we support Israel for a variety of reasons, everything from having a satellite country in the Middle East that we can use to gather intel, to the effective lobbying of groups such as AIPAC. On top of that, many Christians support Israel more than most Jews here in the US. Israel must be supported at all costs to them, they truly believe that Israel will be a major player during the "apocalypse".

Israel has a developed economy with literally hundreds of tech companies and has been able to use the aid to create a very succesful society. Surrounded by enemies on all sides that have launched multiple attacks and that have been humiliated every time. People cry about the money we give Israel, but nobody realizes that the money is recycled back in to the US economy. The gvt does not give handout checks, they give money towards projects that often use US employees. Total US foreign aid makes up for less than 1% of our GDP.

It is nice to see a sound idea put forth in this thread...it is too bad that there is so much anti-Semitism among people, especially in the USA where one would think there would be a lot of free thought, and therefore, some semi-intelligent human beings. Of course there are benefits...and besides, we waste so much money in our country, why are people SO concerned with this effort. If Palestinian states and nations would shape up, maybe they would our support too.

Now, about the ridiculous issue of ?Israelis killing Arab babies?...what a twist of reality. If Arab nations didn?t ?train? their children to throw rocks, home-made bombs, etc. at Israeli military or common citizens, maybe there wouldn?t be a problem (hmmmm...wow, I can?t believe nobody ever thought of this). Secondly, how many Israeli suicide bombers do you know?? None...because they don?t exist...the Israeli military strikes at specific targets to kill know assassins. They don?t send their kids in Iraq to blow up city buses.

-Elias

So we should support israel because they have planes and can order targeted murders and we shouldn't support palestinians because israel troops a a stone throw away and they are unable to murder the generals and other leaders in israel that orders bombings?
 

Tylanner

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2004
5,481
2
81
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but Bush may have personal, religious reasons for his support, which IMHO is terrible. Of course its not bush alone but......

I've never touched a bible, but in a recent speech given by Mr. Richard Dreyfus(lib) at Oxford U, he stated that the fall of israel signals the coming of armageddon(end of days)?

Just a thought.

 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: BarneyFife

I see no reason why the US government keeps supporting them.

Because Israel's a sign that the Rapture's coming soon. Google for "Rapture Index" to see how nigh the end is today.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: faiznne
The Palestinians aren't citizens in Israel. They are not allowed to vote.

It is Israel that refused to recognize the Palestinians? representative body, imposed the Oslo principles, and deferred a final settlement, while continuing to colonize and create facts on the ground. Resistance was a reaction that, via the first intifada, ended years of almost cost-free occupation. Any Palestinian could argue that were it not for this resistance, it would not have crossed the mind of any Israeli politician to consider rolling back the occupation.

http://www.lebanonwire.com/0212/02121219DS.asp

there are isreali palestinians citizens. and there are occupied palestinians. ofcourse the occupied ones are not allowed to vote:p