Why should I vote for your candidate?

[evident]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
The bottom line is that both options suck. In some ways one sucks more and the other, and in other ways the opposite, but the grand total is that both are going to enlarge the government on our dime and waste more money.

Given that, my choice is pretty simple: having a R president will be much more effective in containing government stupidity and growth than having a D in the white house along with the senate and house control. Bottom line, vote McCain, it's the only way to keep the fringe in check.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
The bottom line is that both options suck. In some ways one sucks more and the other, and in other ways the opposite, but the grand total is that both are going to enlarge the government on our dime and waste more money.

Given that, my choice is pretty simple: having a R president will be much more effective in containing government stupidity and growth than having a D in the white house along with the senate and house control. Bottom line, vote McCain, it's the only way to keep the fringe in check.

Your assumption, of course, is that the 'fringe' is the problem. But the facts indicate that the budget gets busted best under Republican administrations. You merely fall back of the lie the Republicans specialize in, that they are the party of fiscal responsibility. They milk you like a stupid cow.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Every issue you listed (besides foreign policy) is a legislative issue. I'm trying to pick an executive, which may be my problem when trying to pick between legislators.

Aren't the two inextricably linked? If Senator Obama becomes your next president, his election also indicates that the country would like him to lead your legislative branches in a particular direction.

I think one reason that your President Bush has been such an abject failure is that his use of the presidential veto was slim to none (until the Democrats gained a slim majority in Congress). He refused to rein in the excesses of Congress. Now, would a President Obama be more responsible in that role? Would a President McCain? I think either man is capable of acting in what he himself believes are the best interests of the nation.

In that case it's Obama for sure.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Whether or not my vote determines the election is a very minimal consideration for me. I have to vote because I have principles. If I don't vote based on those principles, then my principles are worth nothing because I have forsaken them out of sheer laziness.

A principle that compels you to waste your time is a pretty whacked out principle.

It's incorrect to say that any vote is statistically insignificant, since each contributes equally; only in the aggregate are any votes meaningful.

The first part of this statement completely contradicts the second part. Any single vote is indeed statistically insignificant, and logically this is compatible with the fact that only an aggregate of votes is statistically significant.

The behavior of a single water molecule in the ocean is statistically insignificant. If I am in a boat sailing across the ocean a single molecule of water is completely and utterly insignificant to me. I am only aware of conditions that affect a huge number of those molecules interacting with each other.

Likewise, one would only be concerned with a single vote if they were religiously involved with politics, as evidently you are to a great degree. It is like a sailor isolating a single molecule of water in the ocean and caring where it goes.

 

[Hugh H]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
The bottom line is that both options suck. In some ways one sucks more and the other, and in other ways the opposite, but the grand total is that both are going to enlarge the government on our dime and waste more money.

Given that, my choice is pretty simple: having a R president will be much more effective in containing government stupidity and growth than having a D in the white house along with the senate and house control. Bottom line, vote McCain, it's the only way to keep the fringe in check.

Or the only way to get nothing done like the last 2 years... with vetos left and right.

 

[Muse]

Topic Title: Why should I vote for your candidate?
Topic Summary: Someone convince me.

Why should I bother? "He who doubts from what he sees will ne'er believe, do what you please." - William Blake

The choice is yours. With which team of candidates do we stand the best chance of being better off in 4 years.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: ayabe
Here's my take.

Obama will cut my taxes, I don't make 250K a year, not even half that.

McCain wants more tax cuts for corporations, even though their effective tax rate is very low already.

60% of our economy revolves around consumer spending, thus we are a trickle up rather than a trickle down economy.

Obama has a much better approach to foreign policy, McCain is Bush 2.0 in this aspect, that cannot be disputed. We have lost so much as a result of our belligerent, arrogant, and foolish stances on any number of world issues.

I can't say that I'm excited about either McCain or Obama's healthcare plan. I'm pretty happy with my employer based insurance currently. But, McCain's plan is an absolute disaster as pretty much everyone who's examined it says.

McCain isn't going to do dick for education and just the other night proposed spending freezes on everything except military spending. That doesn't fly with me.

Those are my feelings on major policy choices.

Sounds like something you got in your inbox from Obama's campaign this morning rather than any thoughts you developed on your own. Maybe you could explain why you feel Obama's policies are better instead of relying on the appeal to popularity. Every issue you listed (besides foreign policy) is a legislative issue. I'm trying to pick an executive, which may be my problem when trying to pick between legislators.

IMO the difference on foreign policy is enough reason to vote against McCain/Palin.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Whether or not my vote determines the election is a very minimal consideration for me. I have to vote because I have principles. If I don't vote based on those principles, then my principles are worth nothing because I have forsaken them out of sheer laziness.

A principle that compels you to waste your time is a pretty whacked out principle.

It's incorrect to say that any vote is statistically insignificant, since each contributes equally; only in the aggregate are any votes meaningful.

The first part of this statement completely contradicts the second part. Any single vote is indeed statistically insignificant, and logically this is compatible with the fact that only an aggregate of votes is statistically significant.

The behavior of a single water molecule in the ocean is statistically insignificant. If I am in a boat sailing across the ocean a single molecule of water is completely and utterly insignificant to me. I am only aware of conditions that affect a huge number of those molecules interacting with each other.

Likewise, one would only be concerned with a single vote if they were religiously involved with politics, as evidently you are to a great degree. It is like a sailor isolating a single molecule of water in the ocean and caring where it goes.

Your opinion is statistically insignificant.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
gar3555: I don't care for any of the third party candidates I've heard about, though I haven't investigated any of them to a great extent at this point.

Perhaps you should. You have more than two options, and you should consider more than two options.

 

[OrByte]

OP, no one should convince you of anything.

Putting your vote up for persuasion and you attract nutcases.

figure it out for yourself.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Which of your views on "social issues" do neither of them share? Assuming you're socially conservative (which, as I recall, is the case), McCain is clearly your guy, as he is far likelier to appoint conservative, pro-life justices to the Supreme Court.

 

[evident]

its pretty clear who to vote for this year and that's obama. The McCain Palin platform is run completely on fear. How do you think that will translate into the presidency? does the last 8 years ring a bell? lets put the policies aside for a second- the last 8 years has had nothing but propaganda coming out of the whitehouse that has made us look stupid towards the rest of the civilized world. Mccain is sure to continue the same tone and trend. Im sick of "if you dont support iracks war then you are a traitor" that has plagued our society. A vote for Obama will hopefully end this stupidity, because it will challenge those who have this mentality.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: rchiu
-snip-
Well, if that's your take, you probably wanna pick McCain just so you have some check and balances in the government. If both legislative and executive branch are democrats, it will only make it easy for them do to whatever they want.

QFT

Fern

 

[jpeyton]

If you like how the last eight years under Bush went, vote McCain/Palin.

Otherwise vote someone else.

 

[Cellulose]

No Nader love on this forum? :brokenheart:

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: rchiu
Well, if that's your take, you probably wanna pick McCain just so you have some check and balances in the government. If both legislative and executive branch are democrats, it will only make it easy for them do to whatever they want.

That's actually the best reason I've heard so far. I'm not sure how much checking they will actually do, but it's better than nothing I suppose.

I'm in a very red state. That and McCain being very moderate/centrist (too centrist in fact) has lead me to the unfortunate scenario of not being sure I am going to vote at all. But for you, that might be a good motivation. McCain is very centrist. On the other hand, Obama is very very liberal. He started his political career in the living room of a vietnam-era domestic terrorist. He sat 20 years in the pews of a racist church extremist. He got sweet-heart business deals from convicted Chicago criminals. And he has never apologized for any of this behavior. He has run for the next office his entire political career, and the few times he's voted, it is always in line with the far left of his party.

It scares me that people would vote for Obama. If I were in a blue or swing state, it would definitely motivate me to vote against him. Since I'm in a very red state, it doesn't matter so much.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: rchiu
Well, if that's your take, you probably wanna pick McCain just so you have some check and balances in the government. If both legislative and executive branch are democrats, it will only make it easy for them do to whatever they want.

That's actually the best reason I've heard so far. I'm not sure how much checking they will actually do, but it's better than nothing I suppose.

I'm in a very red state. That and McCain being very moderate/centrist (too centrist in fact) has lead me to the unfortunate scenario of not being sure I am going to vote at all. But for you, that might be a good motivation. McCain is very centrist. On the other hand, Obama is very very liberal. He started his political career in the living room of a vietnam-era domestic terrorist. He sat 20 years in the pews of a racist church extremist. He got sweet-heart business deals from convicted Chicago criminals. And he has never apologized for any of this behavior. He has run for the next office his entire political career, and the few times he's voted, it is always in line with the far left of his party.

It scares me that people would vote for Obama. If I were in a blue or swing state, it would definitely motivate me to vote against him. Since I'm in a very red state, it doesn't matter so much.

When did you apologize for vomiting the shit somebody fed you all over the forum floor. Geez, have some shame. You are disgusting.

 

[aceO07]

The simple fact that McCain wants to continue the war against 'terrorists' until we 'win' the war makes me not want to vote for him. Look up the definition of terrorism and imagine how easy it is to 'win' against. If anything, the US government has been the 'terrorists' after 9/11. Keeping everybody in fear, claiming they are doing everything to 'protect' us. Spreading money around to companies so that they can also help to 'protect' us. Where's the proof that it has been effective except that there hasn't been another 9/11. Well, I got a rock that 'protects' me from falling bricks of gold. Want to buy it?

Lets just keep wasting billions and billions on this 'war' on 'terrorism' instead of improving our country.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
If you like how the last eight years under Bush went, vote McCain/Palin.

Otherwise vote someone else.

Or you can take it as if you like how the last 200 years went, with the devaluation of the money supply, the ever increasing size of our government, the government reaching the point of record breaking deficits and highest percentage of taxes in history, the merging between business and government, poverty, welfare, the slaughter of our basic rights, then keep voting.

Freedom is never granted by the oppressors. It is demanded by the people. Voting for freedom is asking for permission to be free from the establishment. You never ask for freedom, you live it. That's the only way freedom works.

 

[Dari]

For Republicans, I think Jaskalas put it best when he said (many many months ago)that Republicans should vote for Obama so that Democrats get the blame for the socialist activities the government will undertake during the next Presidency. He has no idea how prescient his idea was.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: Dari
For Republicans, I think Jaskalas put it best when he said (many many months ago)that Republicans should vote for Obama so that Democrats get the blame for the socialist activities the government will undertake during the next Presidency. He has no idea how prescient his idea was.

And when it fails, Obama the Messiah will be crucified and for the next 40 years, the nation will once again lean right. Running a government on the idea of taking money from the "rich" to give to the "poor" has never worked.. and it isn't going to work now.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Dari
For Republicans, I think Jaskalas put it best when he said (many many months ago)that Republicans should vote for Obama so that Democrats get the blame for the socialist activities the government will undertake during the next Presidency. He has no idea how prescient his idea was.

And when it fails, Obama the Messiah will be crucified and for the next 40 years, the nation will once again lean right. Running a government on the idea of taking money from the "rich" to give to the "poor" has never worked.. and it isn't going to work now.

It does work. It's been working for this great country for over a 100 years now. It's called progressive taxation, the more you maketh the more the government taketh. It's common sense because the more you make the more interest you have in a stable nation. The problem today is that the rich have tons of loop-holes in the tax system (that's why many corporations are against a flat-tax) and the poor hardly pay any tax. The leaves a huge burden on the middle class.

We need to rebalance the economy.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: evident
its pretty clear who to vote for this year and that's obama. The McCain Palin platform is run completely on fear. How do you think that will translate into the presidency? does the last 8 years ring a bell? lets put the policies aside for a second- the last 8 years has had nothing but propaganda coming out of the whitehouse that has made us look stupid towards the rest of the civilized world. Mccain is sure to continue the same tone and trend. Im sick of "if you dont support iracks war then you are a traitor" that has plagued our society. A vote for Obama will hopefully end this stupidity, because it will challenge those who have this mentality.

QFT

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: rchiu
Well, if that's your take, you probably wanna pick McCain just so you have some check and balances in the government. If both legislative and executive branch are democrats, it will only make it easy for them do to whatever they want.

That's actually the best reason I've heard so far. I'm not sure how much checking they will actually do, but it's better than nothing I suppose.

I'm in a very red state. That and McCain being very moderate/centrist (too centrist in fact) has lead me to the unfortunate scenario of not being sure I am going to vote at all. But for you, that might be a good motivation. McCain is very centrist. On the other hand, Obama is very very liberal. He started his political career in the living room of a vietnam-era domestic terrorist. He sat 20 years in the pews of a racist church extremist. He got sweet-heart business deals from convicted Chicago criminals. And he has never apologized for any of this behavior. He has run for the next office his entire political career, and the few times he's voted, it is always in line with the far left of his party.

It scares me that people would vote for Obama. If I were in a blue or swing state, it would definitely motivate me to vote against him. Since I'm in a very red state, it doesn't matter so much.

Funny how point of view is so important. Seeing McCain as centrist and Obama as very very liberal doesn't correspond with my perceptions in a very blue state, and one of the bluest parts of it, Berkeley, CA. McCain who is against Rowe v. Wade, a major hawk, win-at-all-costs, anti-regulationist is to me pretty much reactionary. Obama doesn't strike me as very liberal at all, but relatively centrist compared to the liberals around here. I think my congressman (Barbara Lee) was the only nay vote (was she really? I guess so: "She was the only one with the courage and the judgement to vote against the Afghanistan invasion and the Iraq invasion...") in the house when they voted to invade Afganistan! You know, I was pissed at her for that first vote, very pissed, but I got over it. I'll vote for her Nov. 4th.

Being in California, I don't see the smear TV ads that the McCain campaign has been releasing that I've been hearing so much about. The Republicans never dreamed that they'd need California to win. If they needed California, they'd be sure to lose. In a way I wish I was in a swing state so I could be more effective. If I were in a swing state, I'd be making a ruckus for Obama.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard


Out of all of the seemingly die-hard McCain/Obama/Paul supporters in this forum, surely someone has to be knowledgeable enough to tell me why they are voting for their candidate. Right?

I've been seeing lots and lots of posts mentioning Ron Paul, never saying more than his name. I just looked him up at Wikipedia. This guy is not presidential, folks. All in all he would send the US back to a relative stone age. Get a clue.