Why Republicans refuse to trade immediate tax hikes for long term spending cuts

[SilentAlfa]

No tax hikes!

If the Democrats don't agree to immediate and deep cuts, then shut the government down! Bring the country to its knees......and its senses.

I completely agree, rather than roll back taxes to the sustainable level they were at before Bush came into office, we should literally destroy the entire world economy.

 

[matt0611]

Hint: the money is already spent. The congressional Republicans already passed the budget. Now they are lying to you. Failure to raise the debt limit doesn't affect spending one bit as the funds have already been appropriated and the government would be able to legally continue to operate and spend the funds appropriated. A default would merely screw our creditors (and destroy the global economy) but at least the Republicans would get in a sound bite or two.

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, and right now we're borrowing 40 cents on the dollar to pay for government operations, and we couldn't borrow anymore, then things need to be cut or else where would that 40 cents come from if we couldn't borrow?

 

[IronWing]

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, and right now we're borrowing 40 cents on the dollar to pay for government operations, and we couldn't borrow anymore, then things need to be cut or else where would that 40 cents come from if we couldn't borrow?

That's the magic of being a sovereign! The government would simply bounce checks left and right until the system crashes and burns. Based on court cases from the Reagan years when Reagan tried to return appropriated funds to the treasury (funds intended for programs he didn't like) it may be the case that the executive legally must spend appropriated funds as directed by Congress. I hope we don't find out.

 

[Zorkorist]

This IS the CRASH and BURN.

You guys, need to stop spending, we will NOT raise the DEBT ceiling.

-John

 

[Atreus21]

I don't see what the big fuss is. The fact is simple. We've been down this road before. Tax hikes occur and the promises of spending cuts never come to fruition.

 

[Zorkorist]

We're trying to stop that, Atreus.

They're all worried about some big DEBT LIMIT that means nothing to normal citizens, beyond STOP SPENDING NOW.

-John

 

[IronWing]

The time to stop the spending was during the appropriations process. The folks playing with the debt ceiling now are the same folks who passed their deficit budget what four months ago? Typical irresponsible, dishonest Republicans. The current "crisis" with the debt ceiling is a direct result of Obama pandering to the Republicans during the budget debate and caving on renewing the utterly irresponsible Bush tax cuts.

 

[Zorkorist]

In today's sensentionalized political econony, anything goes.

Rarely does it means as much as when the Government is asking to extend it's debt.

Because when a Government has unlimited money, it has unlimited rule.

-John

 

[theeedude]

Let republicans get the default they want. It's going to take new deal 2.0 to deal with the aftermath. Use it to get liberal policies enacted and enshrined in law.medicare for all for starters.

 

[Craig234]

This IS the CRASH and BURN.

You guys, need to stop spending, we will NOT raise the DEBT ceiling.

-John

Don't, and cause the US to pay a huge price wiping out massive amounts of our wealth for nothing. Sounds just like the tea party. These right-wing radicals are the US's biggest threat.

 

[Matt1970]

When will you people learn. We had 70 and 80% tax rates on the upper class before and we still had deficit spending. Explain it away any way you want but our government will look at total projected revenue and then kick it up a notch no matter who is in power.

 

[Zorkorist]

This is the Crash and Burn, Craig.

-John

 

[Craig234]

When will you people learn. We had 70 and 80% tax rates on the upper class before and we still had deficit spending. Explain it away any way you want but our government will look at total projected revenue and then kick it up a notch no matter who is in power.

Wrong, that's ignorant ideology.

We had deficits - very small, sustainable ones; far less private debt; one-income households.

 

[trenchfoot]

I wholeheartedly agree that we should not raise taxes.

What we should do is give judiciously controlled tax breaks to the middle class and the poor instead of giving more and ever more tax cuts for the rich like the repubs are incessantly demanding.......and getting.

edit - When the rich get tax cuts that they don't even need, they spend that cash on gaining more control over the government. When the middle class and poor get tax cuts they spend it on essential goods and services and it improves the economy.....generally speaking.

 

[HendrixFan]

No tax hikes!

If the Democrats don't agree to immediate and deep cuts, then shut the government down! Bring the country to its knees......and its senses.

Careful, if that happens you will stop getting your government checks in the mail. I forget, is it double dipped or triple dipped for you?

 

[Craig234]

I whole heartedly agree that we should not raise taxes.

What we should do is give judiciously controlled tax breaks to the middle class and the poor instead of giving more and ever more tax cuts for the rich like the repubs are incessantly demanding.......and getting.

edit - When the rich get tax cuts that they don't even need, they spend that cash on gaining more control over the government. When the middle class and poor get tax cuts they spend it on essential goods and services and it improves the economy.....generally speaking.

I think you have it right after the first sentence. Thing is, we have a massive, unsustainable debt going, and some taxes - from the right people who have taken a lot - are needed.

 

[soccerballtux]

If your argument is that long-term spending cut agreements never pan out..

then immediate tax increases are the only solution to the deficit.

stpuid, you're just increasing the income over which we leverage. It simply means we increase the debt more to the same amt of leverage.

 

[fskimospy]

This IS the CRASH and BURN.

You guys, need to stop spending, we will NOT raise the DEBT ceiling.

-John

So basically you are endorsing an incredibly stupid idea that will not only severely damage the US economy, but the rest of the world.

ATPN frequenly reminds me of why direct democracy is horrible. Almost everyone on this board is a complete babbling moron, and you exemplify this.

 

[PingviN]

This is the Crash and Burn, Craig.

-John

No, no it's not. You would more than notice the damage a default would lead to. This is childsplay in comparision.

 

[a777pilot]

I completely agree, rather than roll back taxes to the sustainable level they were at before Bush came into office, we should literally destroy the entire world economy.

We need to think of ourselves and do what is best for US. Fuck the rest of the world.

Taxes need to be lowered, especially on businesses. spending needs to be cut and cut deeply. If the government would just get out of the way, We the People, will solve this crisis.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't see what the big fuss is. The fact is simple. We've been down this road before. Tax hikes occur and the promises of spending cuts never come to fruition.

This is a marvelous example of the disconnect between perception and reality on the Right.

Effective Federal tax rates were considerably higher pre-Reagan, particularly at the top, and the bottom 50% of earners had a larger share of national income. Mere facts, supported by countless references.

The truth is that Republican sponsored *Tax Cuts* have occurred and the promises of spending cuts have not come to fruition. And the parts of govt spending they want to cut today are the parts that benefit the bottom 50% of the population the most, and every American who's not rich.

That'll be a small price to pay, I suppose, so that the top .01% can live in even greater opulence, obtain even more power, recreate the ancient regime that existed before the enlightenment...

 

[Engineer]

This is a marvelous example of the disconnect between perception and reality on the Right.

Effective Federal tax rates were considerably higher pre-Reagan, particularly at the top, and the bottom 50% of earners had a larger share of national income. Mere facts, supported by countless references.

The truth is that Republican sponsored *Tax Cuts* have occurred and the promises of spending cuts have not come to fruition. And the parts of govt spending they want to cut today are the parts that benefit the bottom 50% of the population the most, and every American who's not rich.

That'll be a small price to pay, I suppose, so that the top .01% can live in even greater opulence, obtain even more power, recreate the ancient regime that existed before the enlightenment...

 

[Matt1970]

Wrong, that's ignorant ideology.

We had deficits - very small, sustainable ones; far less private debt; one-income households.

No it's not tard-o-matic. We had 80% tax rate and our government still spent more than it took in. How you people think that raising the upper tax bracket to 39% is going to fix anything is beyond me, and private debt has absolutely nothing to do with the current tax code or deficit spending.

 

[Jhhnn]

No it's not tard-o-matic. We had 80% tax rate and our government still spent more than it took in. How you people think that raising the upper tax bracket to 39% is going to fix anything is beyond me, and private debt has absolutely nothing to do with the current tax code or deficit spending.

Sigh. At the end of FY 1981, total federal debt was <$1T. At the end of FY 1989, it was >$2.8T. It was >$4.6T when his successor GHWB left office. Tax cuts and spending increases, particularly on the military, made it so. Mere facts.

Throughout the postwar period, pre-Reagan, very small deficits, less than inflation, actually made money for the govt. That kind of deficit simply inflates away to insignificance over time.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

Effective federal tax rates over time-

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html#Data

Receipts & outlays-

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but only opinions having basis in fact have credibility. Well, except among Righties, where emotional satisfaction seems to be the most significant criteria.

 

[RightIsWrong]

PJ,

Your whole premise is amiss. Yes, there was more spending that occurred in those years and the Dems lied/deceived/tricked the Republicans (shocking, I know), but with the increased tax rates, revenues also increased which offset the minimal spending increase.

Now, if you really want to be fair and honest, you should then take a look at what happened when your beloved Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and both houses and the White House.

They had a golden opportunity to practice what they preach and when presented that opportunity, what did they do?

They lowered the revenues by cutting the tax rates and then they increased spending at record rates! You're being just a tab bit dishonest (I know...shocking, once again) in trying to say that it is something that the Democrats do while ignoring that the Republicans do it on a much grander scale.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com...State Local Spending&state=US&color=c&local=s