Why Poor People Vote Republican

[Arsynic]

Originally posted by: sinunbeso
I am surprised none of you guys mentioned this considering you are Americans yourselves: RELIGION
All the minority-hating, bible-toting southern good people are going to vote GOP no matter who the tax policy benefits. How often does Bush quote his god? Does this happen at all in other developed countries?
What religion does in middle east is exactly what it does in the U.S. It erodes civilization and distances people from reality.

What a rediculous statement that comes from a distorted view of reality with no logical basis.

 

[Todd33]

As soon as the pro-lifers respect all life, I'll take their stand seriously.

They want to save a fetus, but they have no interest in taking care of it, raising it, giving it health care, etc. Then these so-called Christians are the first in line to start bombing children in other countries. The hypocracy makes me want to vomit.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Just read in the current (July 31) issue of The Economist that "Taxachusetts" ranks 36th out of 50 in state and local tax % collected. Unfortunately the online version is subscription only see Article

Granted this is from 98 but....

http://www.ppinys.org/taxes/98taxpercap.htm

State and Local Taxes Per Capita
1998
Rank State Amt. Rank State Amt.
1 Connecticut $4,425
2 NEW YORK $4,318
3 New Jersey 3,698
4 Massachusetts 3,531
5 Minnesota 3,490
6 Hawaii 3,293
7 Alaska 3,279
8 Maine 3,225
9 Delaware 3,218
.
.
.
.
25 Virginia 2,675

Compared to VA where I used to live and considering the services MA is a ripoff...

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Just read in the current (July 31) issue of The Economist that "Taxachusetts" ranks 36th out of 50 in state and local tax % collected. Unfortunately the online version is subscription only see Article

Granted this is from 98 but....

http://www.ppinys.org/taxes/98taxpercap.htm

State and Local Taxes Per Capita
1998
Rank State Amt. Rank State Amt.
1 Connecticut $4,425
2 NEW YORK $4,318
3 New Jersey 3,698
4 Massachusetts 3,531
5 Minnesota 3,490
6 Hawaii 3,293
7 Alaska 3,279
8 Maine 3,225
9 Delaware 3,218
.
.
.
.
25 Virginia 2,675

Compared to VA where I used to live and considering the services MA is a ripoff...

http://www.retirementliving.com/RLtaxburdens.html

I'm not sure I trust those numbers boz, you have Alaska at number 7? This list ranks Alaska at number 50, which sounds right considering they have no state tax. They have MA at 36. So I guess it's not all that bad after all.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Todd33
I'm not sure I trust those numbers boz, you have Alaska at number 7? This list ranks Alaska at number 50, which sounds right considering they have no state tax. They have MA at 36. So I guess it's not all that bad after all.

I don't know if I trust your list Todd, also you are checking a retirement website, I wouldn't be surprised if it is affordable for those who are retired to live here as who the hell wants to deal with the cold?? my list deals with overall tax burdens and does not focus on only those who wish to retire....try again.

Besides one also has to look at other costs associated with the area, such as housing, auto insurance, standard insurance and what not....in Massachusetts these costs are very very high.

"Taxachusetts" was a moniker we heard often the last time a Bush ran against a Massachusetts Democrat, but it can't be pinned on us this time. In fact, our state ranks 36th among the 50 states in terms of the combined burden of state and local taxes, according to the Tax Foundation, a national think tank. This is a sharp decrease from 1980, when the Bay State ranked second in the country. It is true that Massachusetts residents pay relatively high taxes in absolute dollar terms, but this is because we have higher incomes. Median household income in 2002 was $55,226, the fifth-highest in the country, so taxes come from a higher base.

Nonetheless, middle-class families here have their own challenges. Home prices are soaring, making our state the third-costliest market in the country even after adjusting for our high incomes. Family income in real dollar terms, after having shot up a robust 20 percent in the 1980s, fell slightly in the 1990s. Add to that a relatively low homeownership rate of 64 percent, the seventh-lowest in the nation, and the picture for average families could be much brighter. Bottom line: Massachusetts is an expensive place to live, but housing costs rather than taxes are the chief culprit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A474-2004Jul20?language=printer

So higher than many taxes combined with stupidly expensive housing and other high fees equal lower middle class people getting screwed.

 

[Todd33]

I see what data is missing from your list, it's straight taxes paid, not percentages. It makes the states with high incomes look bad. Of course the hill billy states where Billy-Bob makes $12,000/year has a low per captia income tax paid. The list I linked has more info and it's more up to date.

Local cost have to do with price and demand and where the jobs are. Most people want to live in MA, and don't want to live out in a trailor park in West Virginia raising pigs. They want a big house in the burbs making $150,000 working for Intel.

 

[Zebo]

Because they're millionaire wannabe's...If it was'nt for those taxes..that Affrimative Action...blame this blame that.. they would be rich...don't you see. Life that liberals make is unfair to white males (don't bother looking at the forbes 400 at those who managed to suceed dispite), or so they think. Add that to the fact, like women, they value security more than freedom itself, they never saw a war or prison build they did'nt like to put away thier deamons. Then it's quite easy to see why poor whites gravitate to repulicans.

Here is a great piece which sums it up I think.

The right likes to think that every Leftist ?hates? the ?rich?. I suppose there are those on the Left who hate the rich, but if they do, their anger is misplaced. It?s the ?wannabe?s? you have to watch out for.

The inscription on the Statue of Liberty says ?send me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free.? That?s pretty much how it was from Jamestown to Barry Goldwater. Oppressed peasants and proletarians from the hierarchical cesspools of Europe - and lately Latin America and Southeast Asia - came here to be free. Somewhere along the way, some of us got the idea that the Statue of Liberty invites the huddled masses ?yearning to be millionaires?. They got the idea that just because you came here ?yearning to be free? doesn?t necessarily mean you?re going to be. You gotta become a millionaire first.

That?s what the ?dittohead? is. He?s a millionaire wannabe. He?s bought into the sales pitch of Carlton Sheets, Don LaPree and all those Amway kooks that ?you too can be rich beyond your wildest dreams.? He watches their infomercials complete with large breasted babes reclining on a Rolls in front of some mansion in Southern California. ?I started with nothing, and now I have all this? some lounge lizard in a plaid sport coat tells them. And they believe it. It never occurs to them that assuming that these guys are as rich as advertised, they got that way as high-tech grifters.

It?s the new myth of America. Even the dittohead who is smart enough to realize that there?s no ?get rich quick? formula, still wants that Rolls with the bimbo as standard equipment. And he believes with all his heart that anybody can get it - if they want it bad enough. What?s worse, he believes that?s what life is all about. It?s all about living in a house with rooms you never go in. It?s about buying expensive sports cars, that cost a house payment every month to keep running. It?s about spending ten thousand dollars for a wristwatch - so people will see it and wish they had one.

It is inconceivable to him that most of us don?t want a ten thousand dollar wristwatch. He can?t understand any ambition other than accumulating things whose primary value is that other people don?t have them. He fails to appreciate those great joys in life that don?t cost anything at all. If he discovers such joys, he sets about figuring out a way to charge for it. Some of these guys would charge you for the air you breathe, if they could figure out how to meter it. Maybe that?s why some conservatives are hell bent on ruining the envrronment. So they can make ?breathable air!? a commocity for sale. ?And for an extra fifty thousand dollars, we can build your house on a lot with breathable air. Better hurry though, there aren?t many left.?

Of course eventually, these guy realize that not only are they not millionaires, they?re not making much progress toward that noble goal. That?s when they get ugly. You see, they see themselves as capable, intelligent, hard working people - and they are for the most part - who ?have what it takes? to ?make it?. They believe that the difference between those who ?make it? and those who don?t is being ?capable, intelligent and hardworking?. Things like ?having rich parents?, ?getting just plain lucky? or ?being a crook? don?t factor into the equation anywhere. No, American society is a natural hierarchy where the most capable are ?rich beyond their wildest dreams?, and the non-rich are chumps that just don?t measure up.

Only they are capable - some of them actually are - and they?re not rich. Clearly, something is broken, preventing these wannabes who ?have what it takes? from reaching materialist heaven. Now here?s where it gets interesting. Since they ?have what it takes?, there must be somebody else to blame. This from the people who accuse the poor of ?blaming everybody but themselves?. The dittoheads do the very same thing. Its ?tax and spend liberals?. It?s ?big government?. For the more crude among them, it?s ?the awesome people?. Only they don?t use that word in public. Instead, they call them ?minorities?.

It can?t be the rich to blame. That?s what they wannabe. And it can?t be them, they work hard, they?re smart. They?re playing the game ?by the rules? - and they aren?t getting anywhere. Something must be holding them back. It must be all of those taxes they pay. You know, taxes for ?social programs? for ?minorities?. Not one of them has ever looked at the federal budget to see just how much of their taxes goes for ?social programs?. We?re talking maybe five cents on the dollar. They don?t realize that 20 cents of every income tax dollar goes for interest payments to rich bond holders. They don?t realize that stealth fighters, nuclear powered aircraft carriers, and the guys to maintain and operate all of that Frankenstein military hardware cost a lot of money. To the tune of another 25 cents out of every tax dollar. They never go into the part of town where the ?minorities? live and ask where that five cents on the dollar is going. They sure aren?t building ?Don LaPre style? mansions with it. And I haven?t seen one Rolls in that part of town, though I have seen a few fifteen year old Lincoln?s - without a large breasted white woman lounging on them.

They never ask where the wealth of the ?worthy? people who have ?made it? with their ?hard work? are getting their money. ?I work hard. I go to work everyday? - like the rest of us don?t. These dittoheads don?t realize that ?playing by the rules? means that they - the dittoheads - are producing what somebody else sells for a profit. These dittoheads don?t realize that when they go home and write checks for their rent, they?re house payment, their car payment, and their credit card payment, the biggest part of that payment is interest that goes to some millionaire. They don?t realize that those interest payments - this is in addition to the part of their taxes that is interest - add up to way more than they pay in taxes.

Or maybe they do realize it. Maybe they are perfectly willing to give the lion?s share of what they create at work, and then pay the lion?s share of what they earn at work to bond traders, Wall Street investment bankers, their boss and Don LaPree, because after all ?that?s what I want to be able to do?.

But here?s something I?ll bet the dittoheads haven?t thought of. Maybe they?re the chumps. Maybe they?ve been sold a bogus ?American dream? that never existed. Maybe ?the rules? they play by were written by the people who have ?made it? - not by the people who haven?t. And maybe - just maybe - the people who have ?made it? wrote those rules to keep the wannabes chasing a dream that?s a mirage. Maybe Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Samuel Adams didn?t fight to make the world safe for John D. Rockefeller - or Don LaPre, either. Maybe the Rolls Royce complete with bimbo was left out of our inalienable rights for a reason. Maybe the ?pursuit of happiness? Thomas Jefferson wrote about was something a bit more profound than the empty joy of owning things you don?t need so you can look down of down on the lesser mortals who lack your ?ability?. Maybe Thomas Jefferson intended the ?pursuit of happiness? to be something attainable not just for anybody - but for everybody.

Does that mean I think someone shouldn?t be free to spend ten thousand dollars for a wristwatch? What it means is that I want to look at a man who spent ten thousand dollars for a wristwatch, and feel free to laugh at the dumb son of a bitch.

Text

 

[Lazy8s]

Why? Because conservatives do a good job of blaming it on immigrants and that jives well for lower income people imho.

 

[heartsurgeon]

The republicans have massive following here in the United States. Almost half! In many states, they hold a strong majority.

A little about America: The average per capita income in the United States is around 30k.[Actually, it is more like $38,000] Most of America does NOT make that much money. I come from California, specifically the Bay Area, so we have higher incomes around here as compared to most of the country, but I am aware that most of this nation is not very wealthy. Only 30% of the country goes to college. The top 20% of US HOUSEHOLDS [Average household income is around $42,0000] make $80,000. The top 5% make $150k+. Where am I going with this?

The republican party is all about big business and tax cuts for the rich. Government contracts and government subsidies for industry are huge for the GOP. Why is there so much support for the republicans? They really SHOULD only appeal to the top 5% of the nation, possibly the top 20, but for some reason there are millions of poor people supporting the Republican party.

I would say ignorance and the conservative ideology. The republicans have aligned themselves with the Christian right and in doing so, have gained the trust and support of poor conservative people. Issues such as gun control, same sex marriage, abortion, and the death penalty strike a chord with many conservatives. The problem with this is that most of these people do not realize that the republican fiscal policy is completely at odds with their best interest.

Perhaps the social issues outweigh the fiscal issues, but I think that they are just put in the forefront and many Americans don't realize what the republican party's economic views really are! (flagrant support for the rich, complete disregard for the poor)

gee...finally a liberal that admits their political adgenda is soley based on class warfare...this is refreshing!

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

The republicans have massive following here in the United States. Almost half! In many states, they hold a strong majority.

A little about America: The average per capita income in the United States is around 30k.[Actually, it is more like $38,000] Most of America does NOT make that much money. I come from California, specifically the Bay Area, so we have higher incomes around here as compared to most of the country, but I am aware that most of this nation is not very wealthy. Only 30% of the country goes to college. The top 20% of US HOUSEHOLDS [Average household income is around $42,0000] make $80,000. The top 5% make $150k+. Where am I going with this?

The republican party is all about big business and tax cuts for the rich. Government contracts and government subsidies for industry are huge for the GOP. Why is there so much support for the republicans? They really SHOULD only appeal to the top 5% of the nation, possibly the top 20, but for some reason there are millions of poor people supporting the Republican party.

I would say ignorance and the conservative ideology. The republicans have aligned themselves with the Christian right and in doing so, have gained the trust and support of poor conservative people. Issues such as gun control, same sex marriage, abortion, and the death penalty strike a chord with many conservatives. The problem with this is that most of these people do not realize that the republican fiscal policy is completely at odds with their best interest.

Perhaps the social issues outweigh the fiscal issues, but I think that they are just put in the forefront and many Americans don't realize what the republican party's economic views really are! (flagrant support for the rich, complete disregard for the poor)

gee...finally a liberal that admits their political adgenda is soley based on class warfare...this is refreshing!

Maybe if he knew that 63% of democrats claim to be christian his view would change slightly.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Because they're millionaire wannabe's...If it was'nt for those taxes..that Affrimative Action...blame this blame that.. they would be rich...don't you see. Life that liberals make is unfair to white males (don't bother looking at the forbes 400 at those who managed to suceed dispite), or so they think. Add that to the fact, like women, they value security more than freedom itself, they never saw a war or prison build they did'nt like to put away thier deamons. Then it's quite easy to see why poor whites gravitate to repulicans.

Here is a great piece which sums it up I think.

The right likes to think that every Leftist ?hates? the ?rich?. I suppose there are those on the Left who hate the rich, but if they do, their anger is misplaced. It?s the ?wannabe?s? you have to watch out for.

The inscription on the Statue of Liberty says ?send me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free.? That?s pretty much how it was from Jamestown to Barry Goldwater. Oppressed peasants and proletarians from the hierarchical cesspools of Europe - and lately Latin America and Southeast Asia - came here to be free. Somewhere along the way, some of us got the idea that the Statue of Liberty invites the huddled masses ?yearning to be millionaires?. They got the idea that just because you came here ?yearning to be free? doesn?t necessarily mean you?re going to be. You gotta become a millionaire first.

That?s what the ?dittohead? is. He?s a millionaire wannabe. He?s bought into the sales pitch of Carlton Sheets, Don LaPree and all those Amway kooks that ?you too can be rich beyond your wildest dreams.? He watches their infomercials complete with large breasted babes reclining on a Rolls in front of some mansion in Southern California. ?I started with nothing, and now I have all this? some lounge lizard in a plaid sport coat tells them. And they believe it. It never occurs to them that assuming that these guys are as rich as advertised, they got that way as high-tech grifters.

It?s the new myth of America. Even the dittohead who is smart enough to realize that there?s no ?get rich quick? formula, still wants that Rolls with the bimbo as standard equipment. And he believes with all his heart that anybody can get it - if they want it bad enough. What?s worse, he believes that?s what life is all about. It?s all about living in a house with rooms you never go in. It?s about buying expensive sports cars, that cost a house payment every month to keep running. It?s about spending ten thousand dollars for a wristwatch - so people will see it and wish they had one.

It is inconceivable to him that most of us don?t want a ten thousand dollar wristwatch. He can?t understand any ambition other than accumulating things whose primary value is that other people don?t have them. He fails to appreciate those great joys in life that don?t cost anything at all. If he discovers such joys, he sets about figuring out a way to charge for it. Some of these guys would charge you for the air you breathe, if they could figure out how to meter it. Maybe that?s why some conservatives are hell bent on ruining the envrronment. So they can make ?breathable air!? a commocity for sale. ?And for an extra fifty thousand dollars, we can build your house on a lot with breathable air. Better hurry though, there aren?t many left.?

Of course eventually, these guy realize that not only are they not millionaires, they?re not making much progress toward that noble goal. That?s when they get ugly. You see, they see themselves as capable, intelligent, hard working people - and they are for the most part - who ?have what it takes? to ?make it?. They believe that the difference between those who ?make it? and those who don?t is being ?capable, intelligent and hardworking?. Things like ?having rich parents?, ?getting just plain lucky? or ?being a crook? don?t factor into the equation anywhere. No, American society is a natural hierarchy where the most capable are ?rich beyond their wildest dreams?, and the non-rich are chumps that just don?t measure up.

Only they are capable - some of them actually are - and they?re not rich. Clearly, something is broken, preventing these wannabes who ?have what it takes? from reaching materialist heaven. Now here?s where it gets interesting. Since they ?have what it takes?, there must be somebody else to blame. This from the people who accuse the poor of ?blaming everybody but themselves?. The dittoheads do the very same thing. Its ?tax and spend liberals?. It?s ?big government?. For the more crude among them, it?s ?the awesome people?. Only they don?t use that word in public. Instead, they call them ?minorities?.

It can?t be the rich to blame. That?s what they wannabe. And it can?t be them, they work hard, they?re smart. They?re playing the game ?by the rules? - and they aren?t getting anywhere. Something must be holding them back. It must be all of those taxes they pay. You know, taxes for ?social programs? for ?minorities?. Not one of them has ever looked at the federal budget to see just how much of their taxes goes for ?social programs?. We?re talking maybe five cents on the dollar. They don?t realize that 20 cents of every income tax dollar goes for interest payments to rich bond holders. They don?t realize that stealth fighters, nuclear powered aircraft carriers, and the guys to maintain and operate all of that Frankenstein military hardware cost a lot of money. To the tune of another 25 cents out of every tax dollar. They never go into the part of town where the ?minorities? live and ask where that five cents on the dollar is going. They sure aren?t building ?Don LaPre style? mansions with it. And I haven?t seen one Rolls in that part of town, though I have seen a few fifteen year old Lincoln?s - without a large breasted white woman lounging on them.

They never ask where the wealth of the ?worthy? people who have ?made it? with their ?hard work? are getting their money. ?I work hard. I go to work everyday? - like the rest of us don?t. These dittoheads don?t realize that ?playing by the rules? means that they - the dittoheads - are producing what somebody else sells for a profit. These dittoheads don?t realize that when they go home and write checks for their rent, they?re house payment, their car payment, and their credit card payment, the biggest part of that payment is interest that goes to some millionaire. They don?t realize that those interest payments - this is in addition to the part of their taxes that is interest - add up to way more than they pay in taxes.

Or maybe they do realize it. Maybe they are perfectly willing to give the lion?s share of what they create at work, and then pay the lion?s share of what they earn at work to bond traders, Wall Street investment bankers, their boss and Don LaPree, because after all ?that?s what I want to be able to do?.

But here?s something I?ll bet the dittoheads haven?t thought of. Maybe they?re the chumps. Maybe they?ve been sold a bogus ?American dream? that never existed. Maybe ?the rules? they play by were written by the people who have ?made it? - not by the people who haven?t. And maybe - just maybe - the people who have ?made it? wrote those rules to keep the wannabes chasing a dream that?s a mirage. Maybe Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Samuel Adams didn?t fight to make the world safe for John D. Rockefeller - or Don LaPre, either. Maybe the Rolls Royce complete with bimbo was left out of our inalienable rights for a reason. Maybe the ?pursuit of happiness? Thomas Jefferson wrote about was something a bit more profound than the empty joy of owning things you don?t need so you can look down of down on the lesser mortals who lack your ?ability?. Maybe Thomas Jefferson intended the ?pursuit of happiness? to be something attainable not just for anybody - but for everybody.

Does that mean I think someone shouldn?t be free to spend ten thousand dollars for a wristwatch? What it means is that I want to look at a man who spent ten thousand dollars for a wristwatch, and feel free to laugh at the dumb son of a bitch.

Text

Did Dave write this?? sounds like a pretty bitter man who doesn't like the system...I would be curious as to which alternative he prefers? sounds like he is in favor of socialism...then again I am someone who would enjoy having a six thousand dollar wrist watch and also someone who realises that having a "nice" life is expensive, especially here where housing is at a median of $350K...nice if he thinks all of the best things in life are free, which I agree the best things are free but to suggest that somene is a moron for wanting some nice things in life is pretty short sighted....

A little bit about the author of that sight Zebo....

Well, the site?s been up for six weeks, I?ve had 120,000 total visits, and this link has led to nowhere the whole time. That?s because of the overwhelming response to the site. I?ve pretty much been playing catch-up. So for those of you who care, here it is, everything you ever wanted to know about the Conceptual Guerilla.

I was a trial lawyer for about ten years, handling 75 jury trials in that time, which is a lot. I got tired of the day to day grind of law practice about 6 years ago. Now I consult with trial lawyers on trial strategy and tactics, so I have all the fun with none of the headaches. The "Savage" article is an abbreviated, slightly "cartoonish" version of what I do for a living. All the basic elements are in it. The "theme" of the case, how to go about discovery, anticipating the other side's "dirty tricks", jury selection, the whole enchilada.

Do I know any "dirty tricks"? Depends on your point of view. If I were on the other side, you would think I was the filthiest, dirtiest son of a bitch that ever drew breath. Hey, I?ve gotten some emails from righties, essentially saying ?you?re the filthiest, dirtiest son of a bitch that ever drew breath.? Exxxxxcellent. Because, if I were on your side and it was your ass on the line, you'd be damn glad to have me -- especially if you were in the right. What about the middle? The following compliment from a Superior Court Judge who is now sadly deceased, got back to me from the person he said it to. He said that I was ?the best courtroom advocate? he had ever seen.

For my undergraduate education, I studied philosophy -- mostly continental stuff like Kant, Hegel and Heidegger. I worked on a graduate degree in history, but gave that up for law school. I use the knowledge and the mental discipline from studying both philosophy and the law every single day. I'm entirely self-taught in economics, having read a variety of basic texts from Adam Smith to Milton Friedman. In case you?re wondering, I?ve actually read very little Karl Marx.

Basically, these rants are a collection of ideas and similar writings that I have been accumulating for fifteen years. I've never published a bit of it, because I never tried. That wasn't ever really the point. I'm not a "journalist", I'm a professional advocate who constantly works on his craft. I write arguments, lines of questions, and general editorials pretty much to refine my tactics and stay sharp.

Why did I start doing this?

Just because I'm an advocate, who specializes in the art of persuasion, doesn't mean I don't believe what I write. As a matter of fact, I have come to believe that the Republican Right is not only as bad as many progressives paint them, they may actually be worse. While their victory is not sealed, they are definitely in the driver seat, right now. I decided that a tough and battle-hardened trench fighter who knows how to present a case is just what our side needs right about now. This was the easiest way I could figure out to get off the bench and get in the game.

Some people say "the anger is a bit much". Politics, like a court trial, is theater. The persona of ?Conceptual Guerilla? is an outsized caricature of the real me. In other words, it's part of my "schtick." There is absolutely a decisively important role for "cooler voices." But those cooler voices need to have some backbone ? something they?re sorely lacking for the last 20 years or so. Since this is theatre, and one's voice has to carry to back of the auditorium, I provide an outsized example of what "backbone" looks like. The fact is, you can be rational, factual and aggressively hard-hitting, all at the same time. Knowing how to throw an elbow every once in a while, doesn?t hurt either. Indeed, there's an art to it -- which trial lawyers understand, and most other people don't.

The truth is my uncut 100 proof brand of rhetorical ass kicking will probably be a little stout for some people, and that?s fine. I don?t advocate a ?one size fits all? approach ? especially in matters of personal style. I used to know a guy who was my polar opposite ? just as soft-spoken and mild-mannered as he could be. He also knew how to win ? because there was steel under his laid back exterior. So feel free to dilute my ?rhetorical Molotov cocktails? with your favorite mixer, to suit your own taste. I drink ?em ?neat?, myself.

So basically you have a very well to do guy, who has for the most part retired and is now bitching about people who wish they had his life...makes sense.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: piasabird
So educate us what it means to be a democrat. Republicans have hope; Hope for the unborn that the democrats want to kill through abortion. Abortion is the ultimate form of Greed. You have to be willing to kill someone to make your life better!

All of the fluff at the conventions is pure baloney. They promise everyone the world and there is no one to support the opposing view so it is basically a giant love fest.

Some people have some standards or morals that the democratic party just does not respect.

Only Democrats have Abortions?

 

[heartsurgeon]

Maybe if he knew that 63% of democrats claim to be christian his view would change slightly.

doubtful in my experience.....

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Todd33
I'm not sure I trust those numbers boz, you have Alaska at number 7? This list ranks Alaska at number 50, which sounds right considering they have no state tax. They have MA at 36. So I guess it's not all that bad after all.

I don't know if I trust your list Todd, also you are checking a retirement website, I wouldn't be surprised if it is affordable for those who are retired to live here as who the hell wants to deal with the cold?? my list deals with overall tax burdens and does not focus on only those who wish to retire....try again.

Besides one also has to look at other costs associated with the area, such as housing, auto insurance, standard insurance and what not....in Massachusetts these costs are very very high.

"Taxachusetts" was a moniker we heard often the last time a Bush ran against a Massachusetts Democrat, but it can't be pinned on us this time. In fact, our state ranks 36th among the 50 states in terms of the combined burden of state and local taxes, according to the Tax Foundation, a national think tank. This is a sharp decrease from 1980, when the Bay State ranked second in the country. It is true that Massachusetts residents pay relatively high taxes in absolute dollar terms, but this is because we have higher incomes. Median household income in 2002 was $55,226, the fifth-highest in the country, so taxes come from a higher base.

Nonetheless, middle-class families here have their own challenges. Home prices are soaring, making our state the third-costliest market in the country even after adjusting for our high incomes. Family income in real dollar terms, after having shot up a robust 20 percent in the 1980s, fell slightly in the 1990s. Add to that a relatively low homeownership rate of 64 percent, the seventh-lowest in the nation, and the picture for average families could be much brighter. Bottom line: Massachusetts is an expensive place to live, but housing costs rather than taxes are the chief culprit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A474-2004Jul20?language=printer

So higher than many taxes combined with stupidly expensive housing and other high fees equal lower middle class people getting screwed.

Now you've diverged from blaming the taxes for COL being high. Its really people that are the problem. Every city in the world with a high poplution is going to be more expensive than its rural counterpart. MA is expensive because it is also one the the most densely populated. As is NY, CN, NJ, CA, HI etc. Simple competition of limited resources. You can btch about it, but its not MA's fault and there is only so much they can do (aside from just "culling" the population .) Its like people btching about Manhatten being expensive...Yeah. If you don't like it move to Jersey (or upstate )

 

[Zebo]

Bozack,

If you're really interested he talks about it better than I ever could here: The Big Picture

Best way I could sum it up is a social democracy. Somewhere between racial unfetterd capitalism/corporate fuedalism and a representative democracy.