Why people tell that AMD makes more heat than INTEL ?

[LikeLinus]

My room description had nothing to do with Chips, re-read it. It was an example of how heat is better dissipated over a larger area vs a smaller area. Nothing to do with chips heating up a room, just an example. lol

Thor_Sevan - a chips performance has nothing to do with the amount of watt's it uses. A chips performance comes solely on chip archietecture. Intels chip was developed using fat pipelines to easily scale chips to high mhz/ghz. AMD's chip has fewer and smaller pipes which allow it to perform better, but not scale as high. You really can't compair different mhz/ghz chips to get a heat comparision just because they do not perform the same. The reason that AMD produces so much heat is because of core size and their lack of a heatspreader. Just cause they perform better does not mean they are as functionally sound as Intel chips for heat dissipating.

Basically this is all pointless. But my original point was that, clock for clock - chip for chip, Intel chips do run cooler because of their core design and thermal protection design. Most Intel chips i see people talk about here seem to run about 10C less than AMD chips. Those are real world numbers

 

[paralazarguer]

why do you even care? just let it be. just take it to reality, the heatspreader does its job despite outputting more. experience more than facts. even so, what do you have to gain by proving the p4 is hotter? nothing really? braggin rights? dont see how..

Some people care because they want cooler and quieter computers. What's with the attitude? Other people care because they're computer engineering students and they're looking for a thesis.

 

[PG]

Originally posted by: mastertech01
Well I know this much, I ran my Athlon MP 1600 at default with the largest coolest copper cooling solutions I could find, and they would run you out the room running for more than 3 or 4 hours surfing the net, averaging over 50C. I run my P4 2.53 at 2.85GHz with a simple flower cooler with a quiet running fan, and it runs at 36C surfing the net and its so pleasantly cool in here in comparison and so quiet... unbelievable difference for me. Dont get me wrong, I liked my AMD setup, but it got too uncomfortable even in an airconditioned environment.

The temp for that AMD chip seem a bit out of line. I have an XP 1600 with an AX-7 and a slow 2300 rpm 80 mm fan. When I had a thermal pad installed it idled at 52 C. After I pulled the pad and used AS3 the idle temp dropped to 45 C and my room is not air conditioned. Ambient air temps now are about 85 F or so. Under load with AS3 my CPU temp doesn't break 50 now.
Of course I was probably using the worst thermal pad known to man. It had a thin piece of aluminum in it with a layer of some black stuff on each side. Avoid these at all costs. I haven't tried the phase change thermal pads but those probably aren't quite so bad.

 

[ElFenix]

and at 1600MHz the amd kicks the snot out of the intel... get the intel up to the same processing power and you'll have similar heat figures and 70 watts from a p4 is going to heat up your case as much as 70 watts from an amd or 70 watts from a lightbulb. it doesn't matter where the 70 watts comes from, its the same amount of energy being dissapated into the environment.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: MrBond
Do the XP's have thermal protection yet? That alone is almost worth buying a p4, you can kill an amd chip from heat, but a p4 will just throttle back. Check out Toms hardware, he did a test (with videos) where they setup an AMD system and a p4 system. Then removed the heatsinks. The amd video is pretty spectacular :Q

Yes, AXP's have thermal protection as long as they are combined with a supporting motherboard (most any new board). It does not throttle back like the P4's, but shuts down like the P3's, something I prefer anyway. Athlons are more thermal-resistant that P4's anyway, so the thermal protection is really only for emergencies as it is.

As for the topic at hand, the answer is simple. In the world of systems administration, whenever there's a problem with an AMD system, AMD is always at fault. Whenever there's a problem with an Intel system, Intel is never at fault. That is real world perception. Therefore, an Intel system that puts out more wattage must of course run cooler than a competing AMD system that puts out less watts.

 

[paralazarguer]

70 watts from a p4 is going to heat up your case as much as 70 watts from an amd or 70 watts from a lightbulb.

False. My intel system puts out more watts yet the case is and all components within is clearly cooler. See the above posts for an explanation of why.

 

[JackBurton]

I'll tell you "why people tell that AMD makes more heat than INTEL." I have a P4 1.9 Willamette running at 2.1GHz and .1v over default with the retail heatsink and the temps don't get over 44C. I also have a XP 1600+ running at default speed with an SVC GC68 cooler and the side of my case open. Even with a nice cooler and the side of my case open this thing gets to 60C+ during game play (about 5 or 10mins) and hard locks. I now have to go out and get an Alpha PAL8045 to keep this damn thing cool enough so I can do anything CPU intensive. I really like my XP chip but the heat that these things produce is freakin' ridiculous!

 

[Bovinicus]

Both CPUs run quite hot. It has always been the misconception that AMD CPUs run really hot. They are not that much hotter than P4s when comparing equal performing processors. They are slightly hotter, but the new .13 micron process reduces the heat significantly and makes thermal management a little more bearable.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
I'll tell you "why people tell that AMD makes more heat than INTEL." I have a P4 1.9 Willamette running at 2.1GHz and .1v over default with the retail heatsink and the temps don't get over 44C. I also have a XP 1600+ running at default speed with an SVC GC68 cooler and the side of my case open. Even with a nice cooler and the side of my case open this thing gets to 60C+ during game play (about 5 or 10mins) and hard locks. I now have to go out and get an Alpha PAL8045 to keep this damn thing cool enough so I can do anything CPU intensive. I really like my XP chip but the heat that these things produce is freakin' ridiculous!

PEBKAC.
In a properly ventilated case, temps actually go up when the side is removed, not down. Also, 60C is well within design for AXP's and should not cause lockups in and of itself (although I wouldn't OC at that temp ). More than likely, your problem lies in another component than the cpu, for example your RAM, video card, or northbridge is getting too hot, causing the lock-ups. Especially when it sounds like you have case ventilation issues.
Me looks into Jack Burton's house and sees his P4 system inside a nice, high-quality, well-ventilated case, and his AMD system inside a cheap budget case with no fans. But of course his problems are AMD's fault.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
and at 1600MHz the amd kicks the snot out of the intel... get the intel up to the same processing power and you'll have similar heat figures and 70 watts from a p4 is going to heat up your case as much as 70 watts from an amd or 70 watts from a lightbulb. it doesn't matter where the 70 watts comes from, its the same amount of energy being dissapated into the environment.

The numbers don't lie

Pentium 4 2.0 (2000mhz) runs at 1.5v stock proc vcore voltage and at 66.5watts.
AthlonXP 2000+ (1660mhz) runs at 1.75 stock proc vcore voltage and at 70.0watts

That XP utilize more vcore and wattage and definately runs hotter. Don't get me wrong, i'm an AMD user and fan, but i'm not stupid and blind. AMD is by far hotter than Intel chips. You never see people with stock cooling on an AMD chip running 30c. I see people all the time with P4 chips running that low. My 1600+ runs around 40c stock. I overclock it to 1702 and it pushes 50c.

Again, Chip for chip, AMD runs hotter.


EDIT: That 50c that my 1702 runs is with a Sunon 80mm fan that only pushes out 32cfm. I did have a Delta 68cfm on it that kept the proc to around 43c overclocked that high. But who the hell wants to listen to that god awful whine all the time I finally ditched it last week. OMG my office sounds so quiet now. Well as quiet as it can for having 3 comps and various other things running..lol

 

[dexvx]

70 watts from a p4 is going to heat up your case as much as 70 watts from an amd or 70 watts from a lightbulb. it doesn't matter where the 70 watts comes from, its the same amount of energy being dissapated into the environment.

One of the most misleading quote ever. I suppose you also think a $150 750W Sony amp is the same as a $1500 750W Marantz amp? Not even close. Or I suppose you think a AMD XP = TBird = Tualatin 512K Cache = Pentium 4 Willamette = Alpha 21364 = Sun SPARC IIIe with all of them scaled to 1500 Mhz ?

Watts is just ONE variable. There are other critical factors like efficiency, min average and max current draw, and contact area.

The general correlation is that more Watts makes a hotter CPU, but comparing watts directly to how hot a CPU gets is like directly comparing Mhz to CPU performance (there is a correlation between more Mhz and more CPU performance, but it is no ways a definitive measurement).

 

[JackBurton]

In a properly ventilated case, temps actually go up when the side is removed, not down.

I don't think so bro. I have my P4 in an Addtronics 7896A case (you don't get more well ventilated then that), and when I take the side off the temps go down.

Me looks into Jack Burton's house and sees his P4 system inside a nice, high-quality, well-ventilated case, and his AMD system inside a cheap budget case with no fans. But of course his problems are AMD's fault.

I'll give you that. The case is cheap and poorly ventilated however like I said, I took the side off for that reason. The fan is sucking air pretty much from the outside of the case. I didn't say the chip locked up at 60C, I said it locks up at 60C+. I don't know how much over 60C it is since it locked up on me. I know it is a heat issue (and not a video card issue) because I put a BIG ASS fan (15") beside my case blowing air in and it ran 3DMark2001 flawlessly (without the fan it locked up on me in about 30 seconds). But hey, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I just ordered a Alpha PAL8045 with a YS Tech fan and an Antec PLUS1080AMG case (is that well ventilated enough for you). If it takes care of my problem, I will DEFINITELY know it was a heat issue with the chip. Also, I've checked the chipset and it is warm. I don't think teh chipset would cause a lock up at that temp. On the contrary, the CPU is hotter than hell!

 

[mastertech01]

I use a very similar case, SuperMicro 750A Full tower. I have the side off and a 10 inch box fan blowing over the motherboard.. it doesnt get much more ventilated than that..

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

In a properly ventilated case, temps actually go up when the side is removed, not down.

I don't think so bro. I have my P4 in an Addtronics 7896A case (you don't get more well ventilated then that), and when I take the side off the temps go down.

Me looks into Jack Burton's house and sees his P4 system inside a nice, high-quality, well-ventilated case, and his AMD system inside a cheap budget case with no fans. But of course his problems are AMD's fault.

I'll give you that. The case is cheap and poorly ventilated however like I said, I took the side off for that reason. The fan is sucking air pretty much from the outside of the case. I didn't say the chip locked up at 60C, I said it locks up at 60C+. I don't know how much over 60C it is since it locked up on me. I know it is a heat issue (and not a video card issue) because I put a BIG ASS fan (15") beside my case blowing air in and it ran 3DMark2001 flawlessly (without the fan it locked up on me in about 30 seconds). But hey, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I just ordered a Alpha PAL8045 with a YS Tech fan and an Antec PLUS1080AMG case (is that well ventilated enough for you). If it takes care of my problem, I will DEFINITELY know it was a heat issue with the chip. Also, I've checked the chipset and it is warm. I don't think teh chipset would cause a lock up at that temp. On the contrary, the CPU is hotter than hell!

You won't be disappointed with the Alpha. I've had one about a year now and (IMO) it is the best that aircooling can offer at this time.
My issue here, and why I may have seemed a little harsh in my other post, is that such a big HSF shouldn't be necessary if you're not OC'ing. I've built quite a number of AXP rigs and fancy HSF's have never been required for regular operation. In fact, my usual economy package deal right now is an AXP 1800+ in a cheap Enlight 300W case with 2 Panaflo L1A's for case ventilation and a $10 dollar TT 6Cu (non-plus, quiet) for the HSF. Never had an issue, always quiet, cool, stable operation.
My personal rig has nothing BUT Panaflo L1A's in it, including on the Alpha HSF, and I am always OC'ing, with load temps running around 50C.

In short, your particular case is the exception, not the rule, sorry to say.

 

[BFG10K]

On my part, the 2100+ and the P4 2.4 ghz are +- on the same performance range (overall)

Uh, no. The 2.4 GHz P4 is significantly faster across the board than the 2100+, especially when paired with DDR333 or PC1066 RDRAM.

AMD processors definitely run hotter than their Intel counterparts and the wattage rating doesn't tell the whole story. My TBird 1.333 GHz definitely ran hotter than my P4 @ 2.36 GHz does, plus Intel's heatsink is definitely far quieter than the one I had for my TBird. The TBird sounded like a quiet jet engine and was blowing out warm air right after bootup. My P4 is almost silent and the air coming out of the case is barely lukewarm, even after many hours of 3D gaming.

Intel 0wnz AMD in thermal characteristics especially with heat generation, fan/heatsink quality, quietness, thermal protection and the heat spreader.

Athlons are more thermal-resistant that P4's anyway,

What on earth are you talking about? If the cooling fails the AMD CPU will fry itself, thermal resistance or no thermal resistance.

 

[JackBurton]

The TBird sounded like a quiet jet engine and was blowing out warm air right after bootup. My P4 is almost silent and the air coming out of the case is barely lukewarm, even after many hours of 3D gaming.

Intel 0wnz AMD in thermal characteristics especially with heat generation, fan/heatsink quality, quietness, thermal protection and the heat spreader.

I totally agree! And I really don't know how anyone can deny this. If you want a cool running chip, Intel's P4 is the way to go. If you want to get an XP chip ANYWHERE as cool as the P4 (with the stock heatsink), you better get an Alpha or a Swiftech to cool that bad boy down! As I'm typing this post, the only thing running is AVG anti-virus, Zonealarm, Motherboard Monitor, and IE 6 and my CPU (XP 1600+)reading is at 53C!!! WTF?! My Alpha coming should cool this baby down quite a bit though.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: dexvx

70 watts from a p4 is going to heat up your case as much as 70 watts from an amd or 70 watts from a lightbulb. it doesn't matter where the 70 watts comes from, its the same amount of energy being dissapated into the environment.

One of the most misleading quote ever. I suppose you also think a $150 750W Sony amp is the same as a $1500 750W Marantz amp? Not even close. Or I suppose you think a AMD XP = TBird = Tualatin 512K Cache = Pentium 4 Willamette = Alpha 21364 = Sun SPARC IIIe with all of them scaled to 1500 Mhz ?

Watts is just ONE variable. There are other critical factors like efficiency, min average and max current draw, and contact area.

The general correlation is that more Watts makes a hotter CPU, but comparing watts directly to how hot a CPU gets is like directly comparing Mhz to CPU performance (there is a correlation between more Mhz and more CPU performance, but it is no ways a definitive measurement).

Originally posted by: LikeLinus01

Originally posted by: ElFenix
and at 1600MHz the amd kicks the snot out of the intel... get the intel up to the same processing power and you'll have similar heat figures and 70 watts from a p4 is going to heat up your case as much as 70 watts from an amd or 70 watts from a lightbulb. it doesn't matter where the 70 watts comes from, its the same amount of energy being dissapated into the environment.

The numbers don't lie

Pentium 4 2.0 (2000mhz) runs at 1.5v stock proc vcore voltage and at 66.5watts.
AthlonXP 2000+ (1660mhz) runs at 1.75 stock proc vcore voltage and at 70.0watts

That XP utilize more vcore and wattage and definately runs hotter. Don't get me wrong, i'm an AMD user and fan, but i'm not stupid and blind. AMD is by far hotter than Intel chips. You never see people with stock cooling on an AMD chip running 30c. I see people all the time with P4 chips running that low. My 1600+ runs around 40c stock. I overclock it to 1702 and it pushes 50c.

Again, Chip for chip, AMD runs hotter.


EDIT: That 50c that my 1702 runs is with a Sunon 80mm fan that only pushes out 32cfm. I did have a Delta 68cfm on it that kept the proc to around 43c overclocked that high. But who the hell wants to listen to that god awful whine all the time I finally ditched it last week. OMG my office sounds so quiet now. Well as quiet as it can for having 3 comps and various other things running..lol

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE TEMPERATURE THE CHIP IS RUNNING AT!

termperature is not heat!

if you have 70watts you have 70 joules of heat being added to the environment every second. it does not matter how that heat is generated, it still heats up the same environment the same amount.

and what the hell do the other processors have to do with this? according to the site both the p4 2.0a and the athlon 1900+, which have similar performance, put out about the same amount of energy (just under 70 watts of power) and will therefore heat up the environment just about the same. a northwood p4 puts out 100 watts, which means it heats up the environment even more!

 

[majewski9]

It the large heatsink and heat spreader that allows the p4 to run quieter. The p4 northwood will run too hot at 3ghz and that seems to be its limit. The thouroughbred rev B Athlon core should allow the Athlon to run significantly cooler than the p4 on a performance ratio. The hammer will fix the heat problems of the Athlon. There is even talk of a fanless Hammer processor in the future. Lets not forget the Athlon SFF that has a lower core voltage and a smaller packaging. So truth be told the p4 generates more heat on a perfomance ratio not at clock speed. We should not measure a CPU in anyway in MHZ! We must measure in the performance! Athlon also generate more heat since they have a very strong FPU when compared to the Intel p4.

Okay so then AMD wins the heat argument since the 2.8 ghz chip which by the way runs at a higher voltage than other northwoods generates more heat than the AthlonXP 2600+ but its fan and heat spreader runs quieter. I wish reviewers would concentrate more on CPU heat.

All you people claiming that Intel makes cool running processors got another thing coming and if your that concerned about it buy a VIA C3 since they are the coolest running chips around.

 

[paralazarguer]

if you have 70watts you have 70 joules of heat being added to the environment every second. it does not matter how that heat is generated, it still heats up the same environment the same amount.

and what the hell do the other processors have to do with this? according to the site both the p4 2.0a and the athlon 1900+, which have similar performance, put out about the same amount of energy (just under 70 watts of power) and will therefore heat up the environment just about the same. a northwood p4 puts out 100 watts, which means it heats up the environment even more!

Sorry but you don't get it. The athlon will heat up the case more because there is less contact with the heatsink due to a smaller die. This means that the fan will not be able to draw the air away from the heatsink since it's not there. If the air does not get drawn away from the heatsink, it will not get drawn into the "s" shaped air path in the case and out the back. Most people can tell you that having poorly placed fans will create hotspots in your system which will eventually heat the entire system up. This is the same principle, The heat is not drawn into the outgoing path of air and is instead carried to the top of the case and then along to the front which creates a hotspot.

 

[Leo V]

You are all missing an important point:

You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing AthlonXP's "max thermal power" with Pentium4's "max theoretical power from the Heat Calc". Note that in AMD's documentation, "max power" is described as:

"Thermal design power represents the maximum sustained power dissipated while executing publicly-available software or instruction sequences under normal system operation at nominal VCC_CORE."

In other words, AMD's typical and max figures represent actually attainable power (akin to Intel's "thermal design power"), while the P4 max power figures provided by the Heat Calculator are purely theoretical, they assume every part of the CPU working simultaneously.

From my calculations and helpful input from pm, it appears that P4's maximum realistically attainable power is roughly 78% of its maximum theoretical power (ratio of thermal design power to max figures). By comparison, AMD's "max typical power" spec is about 91% of its "max thermal power" figure. (The theoretical max could be even higher!!!)

Even with these conservative numbers, given a P4 and AthlonXP consuming 70watts max (theoretical), in practice they can consume at most:

Pentium4: 54.6watts
AthlonXP: 63.7watts

See the difference? Even giving AMD the benefit of the doubt (that "max thermal power" actually equals "max theoretical power". which is unlikely), an AMD processor with the same max number actually produces 17% more heat.

 

[Leo V]

To be fair, I will revise the calculation and give Intel the benefit of the doubt this time:

I will assume (as some have suggested) that AMD's "max thermal design power" is equivalent to Intel's "thermal design power". In this case, if we have an AthlonXP where AMD specifies a max of 70watts, and an P4 where the Heat Calculator claims 70watts theoretical max, the real max numbers are:

AthlonXP: 70watts (AMD's max attainable figure)
Pentium4: 54.6watts (Intel's thermal design power, 78% of max theoretical)

Now AMD produces 28% more heat. I am just trying to say that the Heat Calculator's max figures are misleading as I have recently learned myself. It seems AMD's "max power" and Intel's "thermal design power" are the ones to compare.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: FlorianRed

if you have 70watts you have 70 joules of heat being added to the environment every second. it does not matter how that heat is generated, it still heats up the same environment the same amount.

and what the hell do the other processors have to do with this? according to the site both the p4 2.0a and the athlon 1900+, which have similar performance, put out about the same amount of energy (just under 70 watts of power) and will therefore heat up the environment just about the same. a northwood p4 puts out 100 watts, which means it heats up the environment even more!

Sorry but you don't get it. The athlon will heat up the case more because there is less contact with the heatsink due to a smaller die. This means that the fan will not be able to draw the air away from the heatsink since it's not there. If the air does not get drawn away from the heatsink, it will not get drawn into the "s" shaped air path in the case and out the back. Most people can tell you that having poorly placed fans will create hotspots in your system which will eventually heat the entire system up. This is the same principle, The heat is not drawn into the outgoing path of air and is instead carried to the top of the case and then along to the front which creates a hotspot.

i'm sorry but you don't get it. the athlon and the p4 are putting out the same amount of energy, its just that instead of leaving it in the case like a bad athlon setup might, you're venting it out into the room so you're changing the environment. between athlon and the p4. the same amount of heat (which is just random kinetic energy) is still being produced, you're just distributing that energy in a larger area with the well-vented setup vs the poorly vented setup.

"in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics"