Why one soccer mom wants Hussein taken out

[LAUST]

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[hagbard]

Originally posted by: grasshopper26
Anyone who thinks Canada is a better overall country than the United States has their head in the clouds. Absurdly high taxes, lousy public services, socialist government, lousy exchange rate, etc...

The reason you have more people coming in is because you have a very liberal immigration policy.

Grasshopper

Much, much lower crime rates (and a fraction of the numbers of people imprisoned), friendly people, less discrimination, and for now, a faster rate of economic growth. Yes, we have a more liberal immigration policy, which works for the benefit of the country. BTW, time to send the Statue of Liberty north....Toronto harbour would be fine.

BTW, I've lived in both countries, and I would choose Canada anyday even with its economic socialism (I'm a libertarian, so that says something).

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: grasshopper26
CS Monitor

When President Bush The First went to war against Iraq almost 12 years ago, I was totally opposed to it. I figured Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was a bad guy all right, but let the Kuwaiti princes fight their own battles.

The first President Bush never communicated to me any reason why I should want to send American troops to Baghdad. In the end, when we went to war but didn't go to Baghdad after all, I was furious. It seemed Mr. Bush The First was willing to go on a fool's errand - and make it all the more foolish by not going all the way.

Fast forward more than a decade, and how things have changed.

George the Second is in the White House. I have four young children. I live in the suburbs. I drive a minivan filled with kids going to and from gymnastics, piano practice, and Boy Scouts.

I had to go out at night with a flashlight and my first-grader to find "saw" and "smooth edged" leaves the night before the tree project was due. ("But mom, I have to have it tomorrow!") I say things like "don't interrupt," "because I'm the mommy and I said so," and "here honey, I'll give it a kiss." I have to keep my 17-month-old away from toilets because she likes to suck on objects she's dipped in them. I tell my 8-year-old boy not to doodle so many guns on the margins of his schoolwork. My 3-year-old tells anybody who will listen that she never wants to grow up. And why should she? She probably figures life can't get better than this.

I'm delighted to see my kids get up in the morning, and delighted to see them go to bed at night. Once in a while, I even try to meet a journalistic deadline. In my entire life I've never been happier or enjoyed my life more.

And something else has changed - this George Bush has convinced me that Mr. Hussein is a threat to this way of life; that, more than anything else, he is a menace to the four most precious things in the world to my husband and me - our kids.

It may even be that Hussein is a hazard largely because George the First foolishly "shot at a king" without killing him, setting the stage for the current confrontation. But how we got here doesn't matter to me. Whether Hussein is a threat to his neighbors is not what makes me want to put ground troops in Baghdad.

What motivates me is this: I don't want my kids to be on the receiving end of smallpox, a chemical weapon, or - most horrifying of all - a nuclear device, courtesy of Hussein. But I do think that is exactly what Hussein wants.

But what's also changed is not just that this President Bush has convinced me that Hussein is a threat to my kids. This Bush has convinced me that he'll finish the job this time. That he'll go into Iraq with overwhelming force, and do what his father would not: topple Hussein and his murderous regime.

I must say I agree with this women, she is smarter than the average bear...

Saddam is a clear and present danger to the Unites States of America, as a matter of simple self-defense we have the right to take him out.

Let me know when the butt kicking begins so I can grab the popcorn. 🙂

Grasshopper

I agree with this women too. She is smarter than the average bear...

Its like watching a movie to you isn't it?

 

[Gaard]

Uh oh, looks like grasshopper26 is getting labelled.

 

[duke]

He reminds me of a more milder Texmaster. Just a little bit. A tiny bit.

 

[hagbard]

A couple of wanted posters:

Osma bin Bush

President Bush bin Ladan

Won't want ya to get the wrong guy 🙂

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I don't even know how to begin here.

Saddam is not nice to say the least. Granted. So what?

Now take your time and answer and be specific. Just how is Saddam a threat to the US. Not hearsay, not he violates UN sanctions. Be very clear. What<EM> evidence</EM> do you have?

 

[Einz]

After spending 15 minutes of my precious lunch time reading this thread, I've come to one conclusion. Grasshoper: you sir, are a moron. Back off to lecture I go.

 

[Grasshopper27]

Originally posted by: Einz
After spending 15 minutes of my precious lunch time reading this thread, I've come to one conclusion. Grasshoper: you sir, are a moron. Back off to lecture I go.

Didn't your mother ever tell you that calling people names is not nice?

Grasshopper

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: grasshopper26

Originally posted by: Einz
After spending 15 minutes of my precious lunch time reading this thread, I've come to one conclusion. Grasshoper: you sir, are a moron. Back off to lecture I go.

Didn't your mother ever tell you that calling people names is not nice?

Grasshopper

Damn Einz got Owned!


*playing the role of dorky ATOT guy trying to instigate*

 

[BadNewsBears]

Gr1mL0cK
..I heartily disagree. Saddaam Gussein is a threat to not only us but to many other countries as well. Think of this..

Iraq Attacking us/other countries (more than likely, other countries ) with biological, nuclear weapon on random civilian targets =many many many children dying

Us/other countries attacking Iraqi MILITARY targets.=Children dead, but much, much fewer. There should be none, but thats Saddams fault.

Sorry if my 14 year old opinion is too much for you guys

 

[BadNewsBears]

COlt45...

True. ALso here on earth we dont let evil dictators get away with mass murder now do we? EVEN if he hasnt done it. You think hes not going to starve his countrymen more, and use biological weapons against them, let out thousands of murders from jails against his country men....EVER again?

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Munchies
Gr1mL0cK
..I heartily disagree. Saddaam Gussein is a threat to not only us but to many other countries as well. Think of this..

Iraq Attacking us/other countries (more than likely, other countries ) with biological, nuclear weapon on random civilian targets =many many many children dying

Us/other countries attacking Iraqi MILITARY targets.=Children dead, but much, much fewer. There should be none, but thats Saddams fault.

Sorry if my 14 year old opinion is too much for you guys

No, your 14 year old opinion is exactly what is is, a 14 year olds opinion. We didn't expect much from you, and you proved us right. Do you know that due to our bombing and economic sanctions over 100,000 Iraqi children have died? Do you honestly think we are concerned about other countries? Iran comes to mind. When Iraq and Iran were fighting each other it was us who gave the Iraqi's weapons during Sadaam Hussein. It was okay back then, but now its not? the U.N. has every right to go in there and inspect, and if Sadaam refuses, the U.N. has every right to retaliate. However, i reiterate it is up to the U.N., not us. We are not the world police. We must consult with the U.N. and listen to them before we take matters into our own hands. If it was a domestic affair, the U.N. has no jurisdiction, but when it comes to this, they do. If nothing more than to help alleviate anti-U.S. sentiment (by those that call us modern imperalists, bullies, hypocrites...), we need to consult with the U.N. and let them know what our game plan is instead of taking things into our own hands (and our little b*tches the brits hands). Quite frankly, until our government shares some of their 'findings' on Iraq with us, until we find out exactly what Iraq has, I will not support this country's attack on Iraq. I know what will happen, mass carpet bombing from a thousand feet in the air, then when the dust settles, and innocents have been needlessly killed we'll go in and claim victory. Bush Jr. sure has hell better finish the job this time if we do find out that Hussein has chemical/bio/nuclear weapons and is in violation of international laws.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: grasshopper26
Anyone who thinks Canada is a better overall country than the United States has their head in the clouds. Absurdly high taxes, lousy public services, socialist government, lousy exchange rate, etc...

The reason you have more people coming in is because you have a very liberal immigration policy.

Grasshopper

Much, much lower crime rates (and a fraction of the numbers of people imprisoned), friendly people, less discrimination, and for now, a faster rate of economic growth. Yes, we have a more liberal immigration policy, which works for the benefit of the country. BTW, time to send the Statue of Liberty north....Toronto harbour would be fine.

BTW, I've lived in both countries, and I would choose Canada anyday even with its economic socialism (I'm a libertarian, so that says something).

I have quiet a few cousins in Canada (being Punjabi 🙂) And they all say how the health system is slow but extensive. They pay for EVERYTHING in Canada, so i dont know if Grasshopper is correct in saying lousy public services. Also, i've heard the education is much better there, that school is harder there. Case in point, one of my friends from Toronto transferred to my HS outside of Houston, it is an exemplary H.S., one of the best if not the best Public high school in texas. She went from like 50 in her school to #5 in my school! she said the homework was MUCH tougher there as well.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: grasshopper26
Anyone who thinks Canada is a better overall country than the United States has their head in the clouds. Absurdly high taxes, lousy public services, socialist government, lousy exchange rate, etc...

The reason you have more people coming in is because you have a very liberal immigration policy.

Grasshopper

Much, much lower crime rates (and a fraction of the numbers of people imprisoned), friendly people, less discrimination, and for now, a faster rate of economic growth. Yes, we have a more liberal immigration policy, which works for the benefit of the country. BTW, time to send the Statue of Liberty north....Toronto harbour would be fine.

BTW, I've lived in both countries, and I would choose Canada anyday even with its economic socialism (I'm a libertarian, so that says something).

I have quiet a few cousins in Canada (being Punjabi 🙂) And they all say how the health system is slow but extensive. They pay for EVERYTHING in Canada, so i dont know if Grasshopper is correct in saying lousy public services. Also, i've heard the education is much better there, that school is harder there. Case in point, one of my friends from Toronto transferred to my HS outside of Houston, it is an exemplary H.S., one of the best if not the best Public high school in texas. She went from like 50 in her school to #5 in my school! she said the homework was MUCH tougher there as well.

Yes, I attended public school in both countries as well. Canadian schools actually provide a reasonable education, can't say that for my US experience. Though that was over thirty years ago, it doesn't seem to have changed much. Maybe that can explain why Bush was elected?

As a libertarian, I don't think much of gov't involvment in education or anything else for that matter, but we seem to do a better job at "socialism" then do the Americans. If the US were to socialize medicine, for instance, I'm sure they'd do a worse job of it. My wife, a physician, still believes in our socialized medical system...I've been telling her [for ten years] that in this system supply cannot adjust to meet demand....she might be coming around given the evidence. Eventually, after wasting even more money for poor results, we'll come around.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: grasshopper26
Anyone who thinks Canada is a better overall country than the United States has their head in the clouds. Absurdly high taxes, lousy public services, socialist government, lousy exchange rate, etc...

The reason you have more people coming in is because you have a very liberal immigration policy.

Grasshopper

Much, much lower crime rates (and a fraction of the numbers of people imprisoned), friendly people, less discrimination, and for now, a faster rate of economic growth. Yes, we have a more liberal immigration policy, which works for the benefit of the country. BTW, time to send the Statue of Liberty north....Toronto harbour would be fine.

BTW, I've lived in both countries, and I would choose Canada anyday even with its economic socialism (I'm a libertarian, so that says something).

I have quiet a few cousins in Canada (being Punjabi 🙂) And they all say how the health system is slow but extensive. They pay for EVERYTHING in Canada, so i dont know if Grasshopper is correct in saying lousy public services. Also, i've heard the education is much better there, that school is harder there. Case in point, one of my friends from Toronto transferred to my HS outside of Houston, it is an exemplary H.S., one of the best if not the best Public high school in texas. She went from like 50 in her school to #5 in my school! she said the homework was MUCH tougher there as well.

Yes, I attended public school in both countries as well. Canadian schools actually provide a reasonable education, can't say that for my US experience. Though that was over thirty years ago, it doesn't seem to have changed much. Maybe that can explain why Bush was elected?

As a libertarian, I don't think much of gov't involvment in education or anything else for that matter, but we seem to do a better job at "socialism" then do the Americans. If the US were to socialize medicine, for instance, I'm sure they'd do a worse job of it. My wife, a physician, still believes in our socialized medical system...I've been telling her [for ten years] that in this system supply cannot adjust to meet demand....she might be coming around given the evidence. Eventually, after wasting even more money for poor results, we'll come around.

Are you a red white and blue that went plaid?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: grasshopper26
Anyone who thinks Canada is a better overall country than the United States has their head in the clouds. Absurdly high taxes, lousy public services, socialist government, lousy exchange rate, etc...

The reason you have more people coming in is because you have a very liberal immigration policy.

Grasshopper

Much, much lower crime rates (and a fraction of the numbers of people imprisoned), friendly people, less discrimination, and for now, a faster rate of economic growth. Yes, we have a more liberal immigration policy, which works for the benefit of the country. BTW, time to send the Statue of Liberty north....Toronto harbour would be fine.

BTW, I've lived in both countries, and I would choose Canada anyday even with its economic socialism (I'm a libertarian, so that says something).

I have lived in both counties, I would stay in the States.

You economic growth, where you like it or not, is very much tied the US economy.

Your liberal immigration is a problem, I heard many canadians bitch about it while i lived up there.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: grasshopper26

Originally posted by: Draknor
Here's the thing that some people have touched on, but that Grashopper & a few others seem to be missing. Hussein is just a man. You kill him, someone else takes his place. That replacement may be better for us, or may be worse. I think historically our manipulation of other governments usually makes things at least more complicated, if not worse (but I'm not sure about that, so I won't continue to argue that point).

Germany & Japan - Lather, rinse, repeat...

The idea is not to kill Saddam, it is to remove the existing government and replace it with a true democracy. You do THAT and you'll be successful.

What I see as the problem with this situation is - we're not fighting a man, we're fighting an entire anti-USA attitude.

In Iraq, that is largely the result of the current government's propaganda...

Remove the government and half that problem is solved. The other half gets solved when we rebuild the country.

Here's another thing to think about - yes, according to western philosophy, we argueably have the best system going. But - surprise surprise - NOT everyone wants our kind of civilization!

Yes they do, that is why they keep trying to come here...

Everyone wants a better life for their children, so they travel here to find it...

How many homebuilt boats are sailing from Miami to Cuba? 😛

Grasshopper

Grasshopper, fact is, most of the world ISN'T heading for the US. Proportionately, my country (Canada) takes in more immigrants every year. I think most want a better standard of living and tolerance for their beliefs.

Other countries don't appreciate foreign intervention from the US. Even in Canada, we've put up with that on a smaller scale from the US...such as the DEA setting up shop in major Canadian cities like Vancouver. What business to they have here? What right do they have to try in form Canadian drug policy (most Canadians want pot legal, it won't happen because the US would slap us with trade sanctions). What country hasn't felt the hand of "America's best interest"?

Hmm canada has a populatin of 25million and a liberal immigration policy.

US has 280 Million population and a somewhat stricter policy..sorry we take in far more people every year.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Are you a red white and blue that went plaid?

Nope. Born in Ontario, spent six public school years in the States, moved back to Canada. I've lived briefly on-and-off in the States since. Till recently, always sorta considered myself an American Canadian. Even did an journalism internship in DC twenty years ago with a conservative think tank. Given the direction of the US in the past twenty years re: its foreign policy, I'm now completely "plaid" (funny, I always wear plaid shirts, must be a Canadian thing ;-) )

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: grasshopper26
Anyone who thinks Canada is a better overall country than the United States has their head in the clouds. Absurdly high taxes, lousy public services, socialist government, lousy exchange rate, etc...

The reason you have more people coming in is because you have a very liberal immigration policy.

Grasshopper

Much, much lower crime rates (and a fraction of the numbers of people imprisoned), friendly people, less discrimination, and for now, a faster rate of economic growth. Yes, we have a more liberal immigration policy, which works for the benefit of the country. BTW, time to send the Statue of Liberty north....Toronto harbour would be fine.

BTW, I've lived in both countries, and I would choose Canada anyday even with its economic socialism (I'm a libertarian, so that says something).

I have lived in both counties, I would stay in the States.

You economic growth, where you like it or not, is very much tied the US economy.

Your liberal immigration is a problem, I heard many canadians bitch about it while i lived up there.

You must have been hanging out with CA members ;-) I like our liberal immigration policy, there is no doubt that we have benefited from it (lots of immigration from Hong Kong $$$). And yes, I know that our economic growth is tied to the States, as is demonstrated when Bush slaps us with an illegal softwood lumber tarriff or threatens us with closing the borders if we legalize pot.

Oh, and btw, I wonder how long the US would last without Canadian energy?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: grasshopper26
Anyone who thinks Canada is a better overall country than the United States has their head in the clouds. Absurdly high taxes, lousy public services, socialist government, lousy exchange rate, etc...

The reason you have more people coming in is because you have a very liberal immigration policy.

Grasshopper

Much, much lower crime rates (and a fraction of the numbers of people imprisoned), friendly people, less discrimination, and for now, a faster rate of economic growth. Yes, we have a more liberal immigration policy, which works for the benefit of the country. BTW, time to send the Statue of Liberty north....Toronto harbour would be fine.

BTW, I've lived in both countries, and I would choose Canada anyday even with its economic socialism (I'm a libertarian, so that says something).

I have lived in both counties, I would stay in the States.

You economic growth, where you like it or not, is very much tied the US economy.

Your liberal immigration is a problem, I heard many canadians bitch about it while i lived up there.

You must have been hanging out with CA members ;-) I like our liberal immigration policy, there is no doubt that we have benefited from it (lots of immigration from Hong Kong $$$). And yes, I know that our economic growth is tied to the States, as is demonstrated when Bush slaps us with an illegal softwood lumber tarriff or threatens us with closing the borders if we legalize pot.

Oh, and btw, I wonder how long the US would last without Canadian energy?

About as long as Canada would last without US goods and services......

 

[UDT89]

know what....call me an ignorant American....but since we patrol the whole damn world........helping starving children, donating money for AIDS medication, and maintaining a balance among the diverse countries of this thing we call Earth..........pardon me when i say we deserve the right to destroy anything that wants to thwart our efforts to do so as well as interrupt our way of life.

If we go down........so will the world.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: UDT89
know what....call me an ignorant American....but since we patrol the whole damn world........helping starving children, donating money for AIDS medication, and maintaining a balance among the diverse countries of this thing we call Earth..........pardon me when i say we deserve the right to destroy anything that wants to thwart our efforts to do so as well as interrupt our way of life.

If we go down........so will the world.

I am sure Britain said the same thing, as did the Romans.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: UDT89
know what....call me an ignorant American....but since we patrol the whole damn world........helping starving children, donating money for AIDS medication, and maintaining a balance among the diverse countries of this thing we call Earth..........pardon me when i say we deserve the right to destroy anything that wants to thwart our efforts to do so as well as interrupt our way of life. If we go down........so will the world.

And now you know why the world hates/fears us.

 

[JellyBaby]

know what....call me an ignorant American....

You're an ignorant American.