Why NOT universal healthcare?

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: smashp
They need to reform the industry so its primarily about health instead of primarily about profit.

So the answer is to have the gov't control it all? Ummm - no thanks - I've see what gov't controlled entitlements turn into... Until we have a gov't that will be responsible for using our money wisely - I'm not going to trust them with my healthcare.

CkG

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: smashp
They need to reform the industry so its primarily about health instead of primarily about profit.

So the answer is to have the gov't control it all? Ummm - no thanks - I've see what gov't controlled entitlements turn into... Until we have a gov't that will be responsible for using our money wisely - I'm not going to trust them with my healthcare.

CkG

Booo hooo government evil booo hooo. Canada's health care works just fine, and they apparently pay less for it.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: smashp
They need to reform the industry so its primarily about health instead of primarily about profit.

So the answer is to have the gov't control it all? Ummm - no thanks - I've see what gov't controlled entitlements turn into... Until we have a gov't that will be responsible for using our money wisely - I'm not going to trust them with my healthcare.

CkG

Read my posts im not for it.On On the fence on the matter. I Dont know if a universal System is the answer or not.

I just know the Current system is a joke.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: smashp
They need to reform the industry so its primarily about health instead of primarily about profit.

So the answer is to have the gov't control it all? Ummm - no thanks - I've see what gov't controlled entitlements turn into... Until we have a gov't that will be responsible for using our money wisely - I'm not going to trust them with my healthcare.

CkG

Booo hooo government evil booo hooo. Canada's health care works just fine, and they apparently pay less for it.

It may be fine for some, but some people seem to be left behind in their system too.
A buddy of mine imported his wife from up Canuckdia way - she can't believe how much better the healt systems are here compared to what she had up there. Anecdotal? Sure - but true none-the-less.

Oh, and I didn't say the gov't was evil. I just don't think they have been wise stewards of our money for a very long time so I have no reason to believe that they are the cure for our healthcare system.

CkG

 

[Ryan]

Americans have greater access to advanced medical technologies: http://www.mackinac.org/article.asp?ID=2748

Need surgery urgently, move to the US where you won't be put on waiting lists for surgery. In almost all countries with socialized healthcare, you get to enjoy waiting lists. Need hip replacement surgery, expect a 2 year wait: http://thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1069974609876&call_pageid=968867505381&col=969048872038


Hell, even canadians want to pay for better healthcare: http://www.ncpa.org/pi/health/pd012600d.html

Need radiation therapy, expect to wait months while your cancer grows: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040311/CANCER11/TPHealth/

 

[leeboy]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: leeboy

Hell, I would be happy if the drug manufacturers and pharmasists were forced to charge a "reasonible" price for medications. I can deal with the occasional visit to the doctor out of pocket expense, but who can (without some sort of prescription health care plan) afford medications?

This I might agree with if it is done in an efficient manner. I may not have the answers, but better regulation such as this may be all we need without going as far as to have socialized medicine.

Indeed.

I think that coupled with some sort of price reform for how much doctors can charge for procedures would be all we need. Affordable, what a concept. Doctors would still live VERY well if they cut their prices in half. Didn't they get into medicine to help people in the first place? LMAO

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: smashp They need to reform the industry so its primarily about health instead of primarily about profit.

So the answer is to have the gov't control it all? Ummm - no thanks - I've see what gov't controlled entitlements turn into... Until we have a gov't that will be responsible for using our money wisely - I'm not going to trust them with my healthcare. CkG

Booo hooo government evil booo hooo. Canada's health care works just fine, and they apparently pay less for it.

And they get less health care - read the links I posted!! Hell, even if you want better healthcare and are willing to pay for it yourself, you can't because it'll ILLEGAL in canada to pay for health services that are already offered by the goverment: http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?id=855

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
Canada's health care works just fine

LOL

Canada's system is crumbling and they're trying to decide if they want to try to fix it or just copy the US system. You got it bass aackwards.

 

[jahawkin]

The US spends 14.1 percent of its GDP on healthcare while Canada spends 9.7 percent of its GDP on healthcare. link
Knowing this, all this talk about Canada speding more and getting less is return because of their government run system is totally false.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: jahawkin
The US spends 14.1 percent of its GDP on healthcare while Canada spends 9.7 percent of its GDP on healthcare. link Knowing this, all this talk about Canada speding more and getting less is return because of their government run system is totally false.

Tell that to people in canada who are on two year waiting lists for hip replacement surgery.

 

[klah]

Do you want John Ashcroft to have a list of every woman who has an abortion?

I think that coupled with some sort of price reform for how much doctors can charge for procedures would be all we need. Affordable, what a concept. Doctors would still live VERY well if they cut their prices in half.

If malpractice insurance wasn't $150,000/yr that might happen. Their $250,000 college loans don't help either.

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: jahawkin
The US spends 14.1 percent of its GDP on healthcare while Canada spends 9.7 percent of its GDP on healthcare. link Knowing this, all this talk about Canada speding more and getting less is return because of their government run system is totally false.

Tell that to people in canada who are on two year waiting lists for hip replacement surgery. 

Well if they spent 45% more on healthcare to equal the speding the US does i'm sure they wouldn't have many problems.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: jahawkin

The US spends 14.1 percent of its GDP on healthcare while Canada spends 9.7 percent of its GDP on healthcare. link Knowing this, all this talk about Canada speding more and getting less is return because of their government run system is totally false.

Tell that to people in canada who are on two year waiting lists for hip replacement surgery. 

Well if they spent 45% more on healthcare to equal the speding the US does i'm sure they wouldn't have many problems.

The problem is NOT the privatization of healthcare, it's the out of control insurance industry. You can't look at this a s simplistically as private versus public.

Oh, and 45% would probably not be enough to bring them even, but, if it did, it would mean substantially increased taxes which I'm sure every Canadian would love.

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

The problem is NOT the privatization of healthcare, it's the out of control insurance industry. You can't look at this a s simplistically as private versus public.

Oh, and 45% would probably not be enough to bring them even, but, if it did, it would mean substantially increased taxes which I'm sure every Canadian would love.

But just think, we americans are already paying those substantailly increased taxes. It just isn't all in tax form, most goes to private health companies.

45% more healtcare expendatures results in only a $41 billion dollar increase. That's more than a grand per person. I would think that's more than enough for them to provide superior coverage for all.

 

[Siddhartha]

People only want government that benefits them, their friends, and family. Government that benefits others is too big, wasteful, and Socialistic.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
People only want government that benefits them, their friends, and family. Government that benefits others is too big, wasteful, and Socialistic.

No, I just want to get my god damned hip replaced in a timely manner and not get on some damned waiting list for friggin surgery. I'd rather pay and get GOOD healthcare than pay through taxes and get healthcare that is subpar.

 

[n0cmonkey]

I can agree with socialized healthcare for anyone age 15 and younger. Everyone else can work for it.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: jahawkin
The US spends 14.1 percent of its GDP on healthcare while Canada spends 9.7 percent of its GDP on healthcare. link

Knowing this, all this talk about Canada speding more and getting less is return because of their government run system is totally false.

That's a total fallacy. Because the US is richer and has more modern care and more R&D our costs are going to be higher. We spend WAY more trying to keep people alive, and we have WAY more elective surgeries that insurance does/doesn't cover. Try again.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I can agree with socialized healthcare for anyone age 15 and younger. Everyone else can work for it.

what if ones ability is such he/she can't afford it? More and more employers are nixing health. And over 50% of the population in this country make less than 30K per year. Modest Health plan range from 1200-1600 per month for a family.. See the math problem.

 

[AvesPKS]

All I know is, nothing's free in life. If you want something, it has to be paid for, either by you or by somebody else.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Because it's inefficient (anything run by the government is inefficient), and your taxes will skyrocket to pay for it.  Quality and efficiency will both be flushed down the toilet.  The survey at the bottom of this page illistruates these ideas: <A href="http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/healthcare.htm">http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/healthcare.htm</A> (yeah, I know the website is questionable, but the survey from the Canadian Medical Association Journal is not). 

Never hear the right bitching ineffiient about agencies used to kill or imprison people. In Fact they never meet a prison/defence/CIA bill they did'nt like. Heaven forbid governement uses it buying power and laws to help people.

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: jahawkin
The US spends 14.1 percent of its GDP on healthcare while Canada spends 9.7 percent of its GDP on healthcare. link

Knowing this, all this talk about Canada speding more and getting less is return because of their government run system is totally false.

That's a total fallacy. Because the US is richer and has more modern care and more R&amp;D our costs are going to be higher. We spend WAY more trying to keep people alive, and we have WAY more elective surgeries that insurance does/doesn't cover. Try again.

Heh, I read an article about how the shock trauma unit at JHopkins is one of the best in the world. They said that, while the murder rate in Baltimore had gone down, this is partially attributable to the excellent performance of the shock trauma unit in saving lives.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: jahawkin
The US spends 14.1 percent of its GDP on healthcare while Canada spends 9.7 percent of its GDP on healthcare. link Knowing this, all this talk about Canada speding more and getting less is return because of their government run system is totally false.

Tell that to people in canada who are on two year waiting lists for hip replacement surgery. 

You can't be that daft.

Better than NO hip replacement surgery now is'nt it? and millions in this country have no doctor let alone hip replacement surgery. What's the conservative solution to this conundrum? Not to mention In Canada many of my friends buy suplemental policies so they can get it next day just like here.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Because it's inefficient (anything run by the government is inefficient), and your taxes will skyrocket to pay for it.  Quality and efficiency will both be flushed down the toilet.  The survey at the bottom of this page illistruates these ideas: <A href="http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/healthcare.htm">http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/healthcare.htm</A> (yeah, I know the website is questionable, but the survey from the Canadian Medical Association Journal is not). 

Never hear the right bitching ineffiient about agencies used to kill or imprison people. In Fact they never meet a prison/defence/CIA bill they did'nt like. Heaven forbid governement uses it buying power and laws to help people.

You think we should have a privatized police force? That is the whole point of our gov't! To protect the people. Yes, they are incredibly wasteful and inefficient, but who else would put up the money to do that? No one. That's why the gov't has to do it.

The only individuals who think universal healthcare is good are the ones that can't afford healthcare now. They support it because it means more freebies from the gov't. Well let me tell you, we shouldn't have to give up 30% of our income to our gov't. That just pushes more and more people into a lower social class unless you tax the rich more, in which case you are punishing the successful people and you are eliminating the upper class.
What we need is a MAJOR reform in the way medicine is practiced. We need malpractice lawsuit limits and insurance caps. We need stuff like that so that costs are lowered overall and ordinary people can afford healthcare on their own. But this won't happen because it will lower tax revenue and that is BAAAAD (according to the people on these boards).

 

[Jmman]

Let me see. When was the last time any of you guys went to the DMV? Yes, huge lines, inefficient service, long waits. Now picture this same scenario. Add to the mix that everyone there is sick. People throwing up in garbage cans. And yes, you are at the end of the line. No thanks, I don't want the government running the healthcare system......:roll: