Why not raise rates?

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
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What do you think would happen if the FED decided to RAISE rates for once, perhaps by half or three-quarters of a point? Might this show to the world that we care about our currency? Or perhaps even give us all a confidence boost that we may be turning a corner? (Even if we are not.)
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
Because the whole of the liberal's fiscal policy is based upon the availability of cheap credit, and liberals currently dominate both parties. No one in the gubment wants to see cheap money go away.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
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I thought that the feds want to devalue our currency to help with exports, reduce labor cost (minimum wage stays the same, but currency is worth less) and to reduce effective debt.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
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Within the USA, a Dollar is still a Dollar so long as Inflation is kept under control.

Outside the USA, a "cheap" Dollar helps make American Exports more attractive since it takes less local currency to buy US when the Dollar is cheap.

For good or bad, (Depending on the economist you believe), ultimately a US Dollar is only currency within the USA, so whatever dollars go out must eventually come back.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
What world do you live in where it's important to show if you "care" about your currency? It's not a person or even a dog or a cat. It's a concept that serves a purpose, and right now it's quite arguable that the best purpose you could set it to is making American-made products more competitive around the world. Once you've rebounded a little bit you can ease the dollar back up so imports aren't as expensive to your households.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,042
4,689
126
How about you answer two questions?

1) What do you think about our currency valuation over the last decade? Specifically why do you think the currency valuation didn't do much over the last 6 years, even though that period saw the fed target rate go from 2% to 5% and back to near 0%?
2) What should our currency valuation be in your opinion?
As a bonus to P&N, please answer why you think those answers are the ideal answers.
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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Every time we have a deficeit we weaken the dollar. Also someone has to pay the increased interest payment on the debt and that someone is you! I think the lending rates for houses should be 2 points over prime like it use to be. If the lending rates for banks is 0% then we should get a 2% lending rate on our House Loan. If not all we are doing is giving banks a free ride. Every time we lower the prime lending rate for banks they in turn should lower the rate on credit cards. The two should be linked together in some formula.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
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Look at what happened when China raised rates 0.25% last week. If the Fed did that, it'll be that x 11ty billion.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
What do you think would happen if the FED decided to RAISE rates for once, perhaps by half or three-quarters of a point? Might this show to the world that we care about our currency? Or perhaps even give us all a confidence boost that we may be turning a corner? (Even if we are not.)

Oh you mean the way Fed raised rates to defend the dollar in 1931? That sure lead to great things.

Seriously, where do you people get these goofy ideas?
 
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brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
Every time we have a deficeit we weaken the dollar. Also someone has to pay the increased interest payment on the debt and that someone is you! I think the lending rates for houses should be 2 points over prime like it use to be. If the lending rates for banks is 0% then we should get a 2% lending rate on our House Loan. If not all we are doing is giving banks a free ride. Every time we lower the prime lending rate for banks they in turn should lower the rate on credit cards. The two should be linked together in some formula.

Prime is 3%. Are you suggesting mortgage rates should be at 5% minimum?

Or are you saying mortgage rates should be Fed Funds (basically zero) + 2% ?

With the 10-yr Treasury currently ~ 2.58%, a 30-yr mortgage at 4.35% (+177 bps) is a damn good deal, IMO.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
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...If I corrected everything wrong with the comments in this thread...







It would look like this:
** read this part, if you understand it you will be able to start having a reasonable discussion about this issue**
Every time we have a deficeit we weaken the dollar.
...when that deficit is not matched with an equal or greater reduction in the velocity of money.

A dollar isn't worth 1$; a dollar in the economy is worth as much yearly economic activity as times that dollar changes hands. As such, if people spend the money less, because they are saving or unemployed, then the total economic activity drops, this makes dollars more scarce and increases their value (deflation/strengthening). If the government steps in and adds as many newly-minted dollars worth of activity to the economy, annually, as was removed then we have stagnation and not deflation.

The problem comes when the savers become spenders again, as we won't keep up our same rates of spending-reductions forever, and the velocity of money in the private sector warms up. Either the government must cut back the public sector with spending cuts, the private sector with taxation or the private sector with interest-rate hikes; If it doesn't do this then we will have inflation in prices to bring down the value of everyone's purchasing power to match the amount of purchasing power taken by the expanded government.
** the above was good to know and understand if you want to know and understand how the economy actually works**
What do you think would happen if the FED decided to RAISE rates for once
It has done this many times and will again when inflation starts to hurt employment. The role of the fed is to encourage employment first and control inflation second, both with the end-goal of reducing the impact of the natural recession/boom cycle.

Might this show to the world that we care about our currency?
The value of everything is determined by supply and demand. Increasing interest rates would mean reducing the supply of the dollar; this would also mean that it would hurt jobs, as fewer dollars => less employment (of all resources, including labor).

Or perhaps even give us all a confidence boost that we may be turning a corner?
reducing employment is not the way to boost anyone's confidence.

The problems will occur when people start spending money faster; this will lead to a greater velocity of the already present dollars which will only be reigned in by spending cuts, tax hikes and/or interest rate hikes.

It is the turning of the corner that will signal the need for higher interest rates.

Because the whole of the liberal's fiscal policy is based upon the availability of cheap credit, and liberals currently dominate both parties. No one in the gubment wants to see cheap money go away.
The 'gubment' spends and doesn't tax for what it spends, this directly hurts the private sector and thus private sector job growth. This is not a liberal but an anti-market move that both parties are party to. That said, the only benefit 'liberals' would get from an increase in interest rates is greater unemployment and thus greater dependency on the government.

I thought that the feds want to devalue our currency to help with exports, reduce labor cost (minimum wage stays the same, but currency is worth less) and to reduce effective debt.
This also has the effect of increasing the price of imported goods (see oil) and pushing people into higher tax-brackets. Minimum wage is a joke, only the poor/rural portions of the country are truly hit by it, everywhere else the market for labor has a full-time job valued above minimum wage.

Within the USA, a Dollar is still a Dollar so long as Inflation is kept under control.
You have forgotten about required imports (see oil) and goods that go up based on exchange rate and lead to sales and employment generally going down (see oil).

Outside the USA, a "cheap" Dollar helps make American Exports more attractive since it takes less local currency to buy US when the Dollar is cheap.
What exports do we have that any amount of devaluation of the dollar have us match china?

ultimately a US Dollar is only currency within the USA, so whatever dollars go out must eventually come back.
What does this mean? Do you mean that there is a local-economy velocity to the dollars in circulation outside of the US? What is the point of the statement?

What world do you live in where it's important to show if you "care" about your currency?
One where inflation-spirals destroy governments.

Once you've rebounded a little bit you can ease the dollar back up so imports aren't as expensive to your households.
This kind of thinking worked very well in the great depression... to extend the depression years longer than it had to go; Exports are not going to jump, protectionist policy and currency devaluation doesn't work with an economy that is tied to oil.

have had a "strong dollar policy" for almost 100 years.
meaningless jiberish, (not from you, but from whoever spouts this highly ambiguous phrase)

Specifically why do you think the currency valuation didn't do much over the last 6 years
The long-term effects of economic activity such as GWB and BHO's excessive spending will be felt um.. right now... when employment doesn't pull out of a recession like we're supposed to. Once we do re-bound we're going to have a hell of a interest-rate headache after the dollar-creation bender we just went on.

That said, in the short term, the fed has done a very reasonable job.

What should our currency valuation be in your opinion?
Just what it is, the fed has done a great job and they are doing the best any humans can in this sort of situation. It is the lack of investment in private-sector jobs on the part of congress that's created the problem.

As a bonus to P&N, please answer why you think those answers are the ideal answers.
Because private-sector jobs beget private sector jobs and an increase in the utilization of resources (including human resources); public sector jobs hurt the kind of innovation needed to help our employment rebound. By private sector I mean anything that can fail for not being as innovative as it should be, this discounts the public-sector bank, mortgage and financial market companies that pretend to be private sector.

Every time we have a deficeit we weaken the dollar.
...when that deficit is not matched with an equal or greater reduction in the velocity of money.

A dollar isn't worth 1$; a dollar in the economy is worth as much yearly economic activity as times that dollar changes hands. As such, if people spend the money they have less, because they are saving, for example then the total economic activity drops, this makes dollars more scarce and increases their value (deflation/strengthening). If the government steps in and adds as many newly-minted dollars worth of activity to the economy, annually, as was removed then we have stagnation and not deflation.

The problem comes when the savers become spenders again, as we won't keep up our same rates of savings forever, and the velocity of money in the private sector warms up. Either the government must cut back the public sector with spending cuts, the private sector with taxation or the private sector with interest-rate hikes; If it doesn't do this then we will have inflation in prices to bring down the value of everyone's purchasing power to match the amount of purchasing power taken by the expanded government.

Look at what happened when China raised rates 0.25% last week.
what the Chinese do is poorly associated with how similar actions will impact the US; what the Australians do, on the other hand, might just be a good indicator of proper policy.
Also someone has to pay the increased interest payment on the debt and that someone is you!
interest on debt is irrelevant to how the macro-economy works unless we get to a point where not paying our interest becomes a possibility.

Every time we lower the prime lending rate for banks they in turn should lower the rate on credit cards.
The formula that links the two is your right not to own a credit card unless it gives you the rates you want! If you are such a low credit-risk why not re-finance those credit cards at the new lower-price?

Halik, your icon upsets me to no end; brencat, you didn't get enough ram for your new rig. (this is all that is out-right wrong with your posts)
 
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halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
Halik, your icon upsets me to no end; brencat, you didn't get enough ram for your new rig. (this is all that is out-right wrong with your posts)

I am happy to (dis)please :)

One comment I do have, however, is that your math on oil vs. exports is off.
Total exports in where little over $1T in 2009, where as we imported some 4.35Bn barrel of oil at some $54/bl or around $200Bn in total. On a net basis, exports still come ahead and that's excluding the demand impact on both more expensive oil and good cheaper to foreigners.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Because the whole of the liberal's fiscal policy is based upon the availability of cheap credit, and liberals currently dominate both parties.

95% of the attacks on liberals I see here are wrong or lies, and I can't remember the other 5%.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
I think they should raise interest rates, so the dollar will be stronger. People need to learn to save and quit relying on easy credit. The government could also cut social security benefits if they raise interest rates.

The problem with raising interest rates is that too many people are deeply in debt.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
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95% of the crap you post is thoughtless and contains no real argument, and so does the other 5%.

Odd criticism from you..

Conservative ideologue poster thinks liberal poster's posts are entirely thoughtless... ooh, there's a shocker. :rolleyes:
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
95% of the attacks on liberals I see here are wrong or lies, and I can't remember the other 5%.

Liberal ideologue poster thinks most "attacks on liberals" by conservatives are wrong or lies... ooh, there's a shocker. :rolleyes:
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Liberal ideologue poster thinks most "attacks on liberals" by conservatives are wrong or lies... ooh, there's a shocker. :rolleyes:

Uh, make an argument that the quoted posts are correct, if you can. If you can't, why are you implying you can?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Uh, make an argument that the quoted posts are correct, if you can. If you can't, why are you implying you can?

I'm not going to defend his use of terms, but he's generally correct. The availability of easy, cheap credit surged under Clinton, Bush, and now Obama.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Uh, make an argument that the quoted posts are correct, if you can. If you can't, why are you implying you can?

I'm not making an argument. I'm saying how nauseatingly obvious it is for liberals to say conservatives are wrong and for conservatives to say liberals are wrong.

You do it, other liberal posters do it, and conservative posters on here do it, too. It's so woefully useless and does nothing to advance the arguments everyone is trying to make.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
Odd criticism from you..

Conservative ideologue poster thinks liberal poster's posts are entirely thoughtless... ooh, there's a shocker. :rolleyes:

I've gotten tired of completely disproving Craig's arguments only to have him call everyone lying idiots before throwing a tantrum and storming off.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
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Odd criticism from you..

Conservative ideologue poster thinks liberal poster's posts are entirely thoughtless... ooh, there's a shocker. :rolleyes:
Craig234 has been spamming that comment a lot lately as if it contains some kind of profound truth. I think some are getting tired of it.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
I am happy to (dis)please :)

One comment I do have, however, is that your math on oil vs. exports is off.
Total exports in where little over $1T in 2009, where as we imported some 4.35Bn barrel of oil at some $54/bl or around $200Bn in total. On a net basis, exports still come ahead and that's excluding the demand impact on both more expensive oil and good cheaper to foreigners.
The problem with oil is that it isn't just a good we buy from other nations; it is a good we must buy that underlies the prices and demand for every other good.

I think they should raise interest rates, so the dollar will be stronger.
leading to lower employment.
People need to learn to save and quit relying on easy credit.
leading to lower employment.
The government could also cut social security benefits if they raise interest rates.
leading to lower employment.

Interest rates go up: less employment in the private sector
Savings rates go up: less employment in the private sector
SS benefits go down: less employment in the private sector
(well-fair is the only private sector stimulator the Gov actually has)

The problem with raising interest rates is that too many people are deeply in debt.
No, the problem with raising interest rates is less private sector employment in a time of 10ish % unemployment.
 
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