Why not invest more in medical schools?

[Braznor]

Why doesn't your country do farsighted things anymore?

Why not spend 508 Billion on Medical Schools and guilds? Even at the cost of 100 Million schools per college, you should have five thousand more schools, churning out good quality students with the motivation to succeed. That should translate to millions of healthcare people who can take of you all without atrocious expenses.


Your economy benefits too, with the expansion of skilled health professionals available plenty and reasonable rates. Your insurance premiums go down. Employment won't be affected as health care is a need which increases exponentially,



considering your aged population. Your dollar stabilizes favorable as the additional impetus to the economy is met with the increased expansion in medical care. Now, the most important question. Were would you get the teachers for the 2.5K new schools? Get them from the doctors who make more than five hundred thousand dollars a year to sell some of their time as teachers, they could be paid for that from the remaining 250 Billion.

Lets say the average rate is 100000 per year for a doctor for three months of their time. We have 250 Billion left, of which I'm going to put only 150 Billion of it to hire doctors. 158 Billion for doctors at the year of 2,500 doctors a year results in 375000 doctor for a million students.

I'm being conservative. The calculation above, shows a very favorable teachers to students ratio. So 250 Billion for the 2.5K schools and 150 Billion for teachers; leaving 100 Billion for maintenance should give a favorable health care environment for you.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

How exactly do more doctors translate to lower medical costs?

 

[rocadelpunk]

The amount or quality of doctors isn't anywhere near as big a problem as the system in which they work in.

Too many inefficiencies, red tape, and people abusing the system.

 

[PottedMeat]

Even at the cost of 100 Million schools per college, you should have five thousand more schools, churning out good quality students with the motivation to succeed.

hahaha

 

[JS80]

lol only if life/society's problems were solved by throwing money at it

 

[MotF Bane]

/facepalm

 

[Cogman]

The amount or quality of doctors isn't anywhere near as big a problem as the system in which they work in.

Too many inefficiencies, red tape, and people abusing the system.

Yep. The high cost of health care isn't because there is a lack of doctors.

 

[zinfamous]

How exactly do more doctors translate to lower medical costs?

well, one issue is that there is a growing shortage of primary care, b/c it simply isn't sexy to the med school student.

This is the most important field when it comes to general healthcare--the doctors that are generally your first line for everything.

Better, efficient primary care would lead to cheaper costs (money and health) overall.

One major problem, is the amount of debt coming out of medical school. Internal Medicine is a bit of a slog towards paying off that debt.

 

[Cogman]

well, one issue is that there is a growing shortage of primary care, b/c it simply isn't sexy to the med school student.

This is the most important field when it comes to general healthcare--the doctors that are generally your first line for everything.

Better, efficient primary care would lead to cheaper costs (money and health) overall.

One major problem, is the amount of debt coming out of medical school. Internal Medicine is a bit of a slog towards paying off that debt.

It doesn't help that stuff like malpractice insurance is through the roof.

 

[zinfamous]

It doesn't help that stuff like malpractice insurance is through the roof.

indeed. very much so.

don't get me wrong, I don't think creating more doctors is going to fix anything--it's just a looming problem that no one is paying attention to.

education debt and malpractice are huge, huge problems when it comes to creating good physicians. And especially in important though less-sexy fields that are quickly dwindling.

 

[Braznor]

No one thinks making more doctos will increase competition and lower fees?

No one thinks American doctors are fleecing their poor American customers?

 

[Cogman]

No one thinks making more doctos will increase competition and lower fees?

No one thinks American doctors are fleecing their poor American customers?

I don't really blame the doctors, but rather the whole system that surrounds them. Anything with a "medical" application has a price tag that is easily 10x what the actual manufacture, R&D, production costs are.

Simple example, my mother works as a nurse. One of her doctor coworkers who knew she liked sewing approached her and asked her if she would make a thermometer cover based off of an existing product. The product itself was something like $50 or $60. My mother created the same thing in 10 minutes with 2 pieces of fabric and a little thread (pretty much exactly the same thing, in fact, she says with a little pride that hers is better because it has a velcro flap or something like that).

This sort of crazy price scheme on all things medical blows up the cost of medicine in general. Price gouging to the extreme.

More doctors will only make doctors have lower salaries. That isn't, however, the primary driving factor in medical costs.

 

[Sust]

No one thinks making more doctos will increase competition and lower fees?

No one thinks American doctors are fleecing their poor American customers?

One of the basic arguments of not opening a ton of med schools is that a good med school isnt a simple factory you can throw together and start churning out doctors. Most med schools believe that the more attention a med student receives, then the better the med student will perform so a lot choose to keep the teacher-student ratio low. There are a lot who think that the quality of a med school is evident in the knowledge/skill of their graduates, and that shouldnt be too far a stretch of the imagination if the med school faculty are good. I think most people would want to know that their doctor was put through the ringer at med school before snapping that glove on and asking you to count backwards from 100.

Flooding the market with physicians would not necessarily be the solution as evidenced by the law schools. The last time that I checked, I dont think lawyers have really reduced their rates at all despite the prominent supply of eligible labor. Legal firms just so happen to have stopped hiring law school grads thus leaving grads to fill other non-legal positions.
The only place I have heard about where overwhelming physician supply has brought down patient costs is India, but I know nothing of their medical system and I know nothing about the general level of health there so I will defer to the other ATOT denizens to comment on that.

If you believe your doctor is fleecing you then you should go find another doctor who would be willing to perform your procedure for a cheaper price. You'll find that almost all US doctors operate on the same RVU's which are a murky system of re-imbursement doled out by your government. All insurance companies have set the ceiling at what medicare decides and shakes down physicians from there. If you're willing to pay cash so that your doc doesnt have to deal with the medicare bureaucracy, you might be surprised to see whether your physician is willing to cut a deal.

 

[zinfamous]

No one thinks making more doctos will increase competition and lower fees?

No one thinks American doctors are fleecing their poor American customers?

doctors aren't fleecing anyone. the insurers that largely determine overall costs, and malpractice BS that determines redundant and unnecessary hospital protocol (that tends to be even more dangerous for the patient) are to blame for astronomical prices.

 

[zinfamous]

One of the basic arguments of not opening a ton of med schools is that a good med school isnt a simple factory you can throw together and start churning out doctors. Most med schools believe that the more attention a med student receives, then the better the med student will perform so a lot choose to keep the teacher-student ratio low. There are a lot who think that the quality of a med school is evident in the knowledge/skill of their graduates, and that shouldnt be too far a stretch of the imagination if the med school faculty are good. I think most people would want to know that their doctor was put through the ringer at med school before snapping that glove on and asking you to count backwards from 100.

Flooding the market with physicians would not necessarily be the solution as evidenced by the law schools. The last time that I checked, I dont think lawyers have really reduced their rates at all despite the prominent supply of eligible labor. Legal firms just so happen to have stopped hiring law school grads thus leaving grads to fill other non-legal positions.
The only place I have heard about where overwhelming physician supply has brought down patient costs is India, but I know nothing of their medical system and I know nothing about the general level of health there so I will defer to the other ATOT denizens to comment on that.

If you believe your doctor is fleecing you then you should go find another doctor who would be willing to perform your procedure for a cheaper price. You'll find that almost all US doctors operate on the same RVU's which are a murky system of re-imbursement doled out by your government. All insurance companies have set the ceiling at what medicare decides and shakes down physicians from there. If you're willing to pay cash so that your doc doesnt have to deal with the medicare bureaucracy, you might be surprised to see whether your physician is willing to cut a deal.

you know, I think the glut of lawyers is partially to blame for healthcare costs. when you have a market that can't handle the saturation, you get a lot of scuzzy lawyers looking to plug themselves somewhere where there was previously no business...such as seeking erroneous malpractice suits.

 

[Slew Foot]

Holy crap Braznor is a fucking moron.


Theres only about 150 medical schools in the country right now and you want to make 5000 more? And youll staff them all with neurosurgeons who make 500K or more?

Haha, never trust a liberal with basic math.

 

[shortylickens]

How exactly do more doctors translate to lower medical costs?

In theory if we were living in a free market it would make competition and reduced prices.

And you guys need to understand this situation has nothing to do with the number of intelligent people available or schools in session, it has to do with the AMA limiting the number of students allowed into med school.

 

[iGas]

Artificial shortage creation of nurses and doctors is the aim of the government to curb medical abuse. Hence no expansion of medical or nursing school, at least that is the practice here in Canada.

Old retires people with not thing to do visit doctor office weekly because they are bored is what bring the medical system to its knees (the system expects people to visit doctors once or twice a year, not weekly).

 

[Demo24]

Now I'm kind of curious to know where Braznor lives, because apparently he doesn't live in the US nor does it sound like he's ever been here. However he sure does know how to fix all our problems.



🙄

 

[Gibsons]

Create that many med schools and the average gpa of incoming students will drop tremendously. Do the standards for the boards get dropped too?

 

[shortylickens]

Create that many med schools and the average gpa of incoming students will drop tremendously. Do the standards for the boards get dropped too?

Congrats, I think with that statement you managed to touch on all 7 logic failures.

 

[Gibsons]

Congrats, I think with that statement you managed to touch on all 7 logic failures.

Thanks, I'm here to please.

 

[Newbian]

<--- P&N

Go away.

 

[gophins72]

Now I'm kind of curious to know where Braznor lives, because apparently he doesn't live in the US nor does it sound like he's ever been here. However he sure does know how to fix all our problems.



🙄

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=20420676&postcount=8

Yes, the British killed Indians, but never in scale the Muslims did and never for us simply being hindus. The muslims and people like you should stop hiding their crimes behind the British ones.

i'm guessing india

 

[SP33Demon]

Forget doctors, we need more nurses. They are the ones picking up patients' sht and there's still a shortage.

A study by Peter Buerhaus of Vanderbilt University on aging nurses published in the Nov. 17, 2004, issue of Health Affairs, paints a dire picture of the nursing shortage in the years ahead. According to the study, although overall employment of RNs increased by approximately 205,000 since 2001, most of the growth was attributed to nurses over 50 or foreign-born nurses, followed by women in their early 30s and men. The study recommends that schools of nursing increase their capacity to educate new RNs, as well as improve the ergonomic environment, especially to accommodate older nurses.

Buerhaus predicts that over the next two decades, a further aging of the RN workforce will continue, with the largest cohorts of RNs will be between age 50 and 69 years. Within the next 10 years, the average age of RNs is forecast to be 45.4 years, an increase of 3.5 years over the current age, with more than 40 percent of the RN workforce expected to be older than 50 years. By the year 2020, the RN workforce is forecast to be roughly the same size as it is today, falling nearly 20 percent below projected RN workforce requirements.

and

In October 2010, the Institute of Medicine released its landmark report on The Future of Nursing, initiated by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which called for increasing the number of baccalaureate-prepared nurses in the workforce to 80&#37; and doubling the population of nurses with doctoral degrees. The current nursing workforce falls far short of these recommendations with only 50% of registered nurses prepared at the baccalaureate or graduate degree level.