Why No One Will Sell You The Bike You Want.

[JulesMaximus]

Not sure I agree with all of this but it is an interesting perspective. I don't think no one will sell you the bike you want, I think most people don't even know what bike they want or they think they know but are just clueless.

http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/why-no-one-will-sell-you-the-bike-you-want-1641411378

 

[MiataNC]

I can think of only a couple times that motorcycling in the US was about "sensible personal transportation" and an "honest good time". At the end of WWII when ex-GIs were purchasing surplus military bikes, turning them into "bobbers", and hitting the road. And again in the 60s when the Brits and eventually the Japanese took the US by storm.

I would mark the birth of the Honda CB750 as the turning point for Americans where bigger and faster took precedence over simply riding. This was compounded in the early '80s with the VFR/GSXR/GPZ/FZ (that were basically race bikes with lights) and continues to today.

All of the major brands have put out smaller less "race" focused bikes along the way (1980s-2010s), and they collect dust in showrooms and are eventually discontinued in the US market. It isn't a lack of options that has pigeonholed motorcycling into "Cruisers or Sportbikes". It is simple supply and demand. US buyers as a whole have not been interested in motorcycles as basic transportation for decades. They want to make a bold lifestyle statement.

Motorcycling as a lifestyle requires sacrifice. It is inconvenient, uncomfortable, and extremely dangerous. In a world of SUV drivers focused on cell phones and juggling lattes, you are not going to find a lot of people jumping at the chance to join the brotherhood. Offering different styles of bikes is not going to magically jump start a boom in sales and riders.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I think he brings up some good points about our licensing system and the ridiculous things the AMA thinks are important to motorcyclists.

Motorcycling is so dangerous here because of those things. It is not as dangerous in many far more congested countries and cities in Europe and Asia. When you can buy a literbike right off the showroom floor with zero experience, hell, you don't even need a license to buy a motorcycle and you sure as shit don't need one to ride it (until you get pulled over anyway).

 

[MiataNC]

I think he brings up some good points about our licensing system and the ridiculous things the AMA thinks are important to motorcyclists.

Motorcycling is so dangerous here because of those things. It is not as dangerous in many far more congested countries and cities in Europe and Asia. When you can buy a literbike right off the showroom floor with zero experience, hell, you don't even need a license to buy a motorcycle and you sure as shit don't need one to ride it (until you get pulled over anyway).

Good point.

I wish we would adopt tiered licensing. At least MotoGP tech is trickling down into street bikes and making hamfisted riders marginally safer. (traction control, abs, wheelie control, alternate fuel maps, etc.)

I just don't see a USA where drivers as a whole are attentive and aware of riders. It seems like we keep inventing new distractions and new excuses (lane monitoring, blind spot monitoring, etc.) for poor driving habits.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Good point.

I wish we would adopt tiered licensing. At least MotoGP tech is trickling down into street bikes and making hamfisted riders marginally safer. (traction control, abs, wheelie control, alternate fuel maps, etc.)

I just don't see a USA where drivers as a whole are attentive and aware of riders. It seems like we keep inventing new distractions and new excuses (lane monitoring, blind spot monitoring, etc.) for poor driving habits.

That is a separate issue and a matter of enforcement. We definitely need to crack down on texting drivers. Fines need to be much more harsh for those violations. I think $500 for a first time offense and add $500 for each additional one. Fuck it, if you even have a phone in your hand it's a $500 fine.

 

[MrCassdin]

Honda sells the bike I want already.

 

[mmntech]

Good point.

I wish we would adopt tiered licensing. At least MotoGP tech is trickling down into street bikes and making hamfisted riders marginally safer. (traction control, abs, wheelie control, alternate fuel maps, etc.)

I just don't see a USA where drivers as a whole are attentive and aware of riders. It seems like we keep inventing new distractions and new excuses (lane monitoring, blind spot monitoring, etc.) for poor driving habits.

My granddad was an avid rider back in England. One of those ex-GI who rode because it was a cheap form of transport for the working class. When they came to Canada in the late 50s, he gave it up. Said drivers here didn't know how to respect and share the road with bikes. Probably far worse today since cell phones and other distractions didn't exist back then. The soccer moms in their land yacht SUVs barely watch for small cars.

Of course bad riders are also a big issue. Underdressed and using the expressways as their own personal MotoGP track. They busted a guy here last week who was doing 200km/h. Got busted for riding with a suspended license and inadequate safety gear too. Cop got lucky and caught him on the off ramp. Most of them don't get caught though, until they become road pizza. Hear of at least one per week in the summer.

 

[michal1980]

I skimmed it. the writer is wrong, the problem is everyone is willing to sell you the back you 'want' but that doesn't mean its the bike you 'need'

 

[_Rick_]

That is a separate issue and a matter of enforcement. We definitely need to crack down on texting drivers. Fines need to be much more harsh for those violations. I think $500 for a first time offense and add $500 for each additional one. Fuck it, if you even have a phone in your hand it's a $500 fine.

But, my music/radio's on the phone

Don't see much of a difference between looking down at the radio console, or glancing at my phone.

Obviously, both shouldn't be done in dense traffic, or distract you from the road for more than 2 seconds, unless you're stopped.

With integration of the phone into the car becoming more mainstream, the two actions would become one and the same anyway. But that's an issue for another thread.

As for bikes, I think it's the same as for cars. Few people appreciate a light car these days, and instead prefer comfort or raw power.
Of course, from utilitarian standpoint, scooters are simply better, more accessible and cheaper than most bikes. Which is why in Europe I think they are around 50% of the motorized two-wheeled vehicles on the road, and probably ahead by vehicle kilometers, since they're more routinely in commuter and delivery service, while bikes tend to be week-end toys - and rightly so.

Still doesn't explain why so many people get big bikes. A cruiser bike is cheaper than a convertible, I suppose, but I'd still get the latter over the former. A sports bike should be light first, powerful second, or you're constantly at work getting that mass around corners, and getting it stopped. Doesn't sound like fun, even if you have enough power to pop a wheelie at 100mph. Supermotards are at least kind of sticking to those principles, especially because they have a genuine advantage to a car, in being designed to go relatively fast off the tarmac. Enduros are enduros, but I get the feeling that their following has reduced a lot in recent times. At least the exposure has been slightly reduced. And they're pretty useless on the road...

Well, I suppose "bigger is better" is still the driving force of the vehicle market in many place of the world.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Honda sells the bike I want already.

I really want to like that bike but quite honestly, it is too heavy.

 

[JulesMaximus]

But, my music/radio's on the phone

Don't see much of a difference between looking down at the radio console, or glancing at my phone.

Obviously, both shouldn't be done in dense traffic, or distract you from the road for more than 2 seconds, unless you're stopped.

With integration of the phone into the car becoming more mainstream, the two actions would become one and the same anyway. But that's an issue for another thread.

As for bikes, I think it's the same as for cars. Few people appreciate a light car these days, and instead prefer comfort or raw power.
Of course, from utilitarian standpoint, scooters are simply better, more accessible and cheaper than most bikes. Which is why in Europe I think they are around 50% of the motorized two-wheeled vehicles on the road, and probably ahead by vehicle kilometers, since they're more routinely in commuter and delivery service, while bikes tend to be week-end toys - and rightly so.

Still doesn't explain why so many people get big bikes. A cruiser bike is cheaper than a convertible, I suppose, but I'd still get the latter over the former. A sports bike should be light first, powerful second, or you're constantly at work getting that mass around corners, and getting it stopped. Doesn't sound like fun, even if you have enough power to pop a wheelie at 100mph. Supermotards are at least kind of sticking to those principles, especially because they have a genuine advantage to a car, in being designed to go relatively fast off the tarmac. Enduros are enduros, but I get the feeling that their following has reduced a lot in recent times. At least the exposure has been slightly reduced. And they're pretty useless on the road...

Well, I suppose "bigger is better" is still the driving force of the vehicle market in many place of the world.

Have you priced Harleys lately? You could buy a Miata for the price of some of their bikes.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

In the U.S. people buying bikes out of necessity are in the minority. The majority buy them as toys. Nobody wants junky low powered uncool toys.

Not saying I agree with that perspective as all my bikes have been 650cc or under. Hell I have more fond memories of a 250 dual sport than anything else I've ridden. Mostly because I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. That's also a minority perspective but I digress....

 

[Midwayman]

You want people to take bikes seriously as transport? Crash the economy. Make it so its what people can afford. Double the price of gas. Force people into overcrowded, dense cities where parking for bikes is all you'll find, and the only way you'll effectively get through traffic. Fact is the conditions for making motorcycles a sensible choice don't really exist in the US. Too much space, too much wealth.

 

[TridenT]

Bikes are still expensive. After getting a decent one that's used and all the gear, you can buy a car.

And you don't need gear to drive a car. Motorcycles are not used as transportation much anymore because they're impractical for most people while still costing a significant amount.

 

[Yuriman]

I'm probably going to snag one of these in a few years if they haven't refreshed their low-end cruiser:

77MPG, top speed is a reasonable 92MPH, 0-60 in ~8 seconds, has ABS + fuel injected, no fussing with carbs
~$4000 MSRP

Drive very defensively and it's excellent, cheap transportation.

EDIT:

^ A bit underpowered, 11s 0-60 and top speed of 70 makes bordering on a toy. If they offered a 300cc cruiser with EFI I'd be all over it. You have to spend about $7000 before you can get a reasonable cruiser from Honda, so it's arguably that they're *not* selling the bike I want.

 

[smackababy]

Plenty of people will sell me the bike I want, just not at the price I am willing to pay for it.

 

[Triumph]

Huh. And all this time I thought that the bike I wanted was a ZX-10R with lockable saddlebags.

 

[cabri]

Bikes are still expensive. After getting a decent one that's used and all the gear, you can buy a car.

And you don't need gear to drive a car. Motorcycles are not used as transportation much anymore because they're impractical for most people while still costing a significant amount.

An impression that I received from the article is that the industry is not attempting to target new customers with acceptable decent entry level bikes and grow them from there.

Does not good to crash the economy if there are no decent bikes that will appeal to a rider leaving the car or unable to purchase a decent used vehicle with affordable payments

 

[Topweasel]

An impression that I received from the article is that the industry is not attempting to target new customers with acceptable decent entry level bikes and grow them from there.

Does not good to crash the economy if there are no decent bikes that will appeal to a rider leaving the car or unable to purchase a decent used vehicle with affordable payments

It would come in time. People looking at 50-70-80MPG, reasonable parking, and an easier time through traffic (most western Europe like). For starters they would just tweak the decent sellers in the EU for US standards and they would start selling. Then then after a two-three years US targeted bikes would start to come out.

The generality right now with little actual need to ride a Motorcyle in the US is that it's being used as a toy, to show off. So they have a limited selection of starter bikes or general purpose bikes, and then a bazillion large engine bikes of all types. Because who chooses to ride around in a "chick bike" if they didn't have to.

In a situation where they are so much more economically or geographically feesible. You would end up with a variety of people with different comfort levels on a bike and the market for all of the high low and mid level bikes that are limited in the US explodes.

 

[Wuzup101]

Its too easy to get and maintain a regular car drivers lisence in the states. Too many stupid people are on the road doing shit they shouldn't instead of driving. I'd love to get a bike, but truthfully the only place I would feel safe is on a closed course track with other like minded people. I've been in too many close calls with people in their cars not paying attention (texting, talking on the phone, applying makeup, reading, etc...). It seems that a large part of the population has forgotten how to just drive. The government worries too much about people doing 10mph over and arbitrary low speed limit than people who just don't pay attention, make right turns after riding the left lane for 10 miles, etc... Its the same reason I don't ride my road bike on a lot of the local roads and instead take my car.

I do agree with the tired lisencing system for bikes... Hell I'd love to see that for cars. You should need some actual training and experience before buying something that can so easily get away from you. The hardest part of a drivers lisence test (auto) shouldn't be parallel parking. How about they teach younger drivers how to properly use an acceleration lane to merge into traffic?

 

[olds]

First, make it harder and more expensive to get a driver's license of any kind. $1000 for the license and make the test so hard that 50% of the people fail. Weed out the unmotivated and stupid people.
Require completion of a 4 hour defensive drivers training class every two years. In a classroom, no online training.

Motorcycle licenses should be tiered based on CC. Probably 3 tiers. As you gain experience, you can move up to more CCs. The DMV would verify with your registration and miles driven.
Mandatory safety training for each tier.

Any accident or reckless driving charge and your license is suspended till you complete a mandatory 8 hour class on how not to be a dick. Then you pay $500 to get your license back.

Unlicensed or uninsured driver? Vehicle is forfeited automatically. Even if it isn't the driver's.
Sell the vehicles and use those proceeds and the $500 from license suspension to improve public transportation.

Get off my lawn.

 

[CombatChuk]

I'm with the other guys, the reason why Motorcycling is such a prevalent source of transportation in other countries is because in other countries, Cars are a bit more expensive to buy (VAT on top of purchase price) and to run (Gas prices, Insurance).

In the USA, Cars are relatively dirt cheap to buy, drive and insure. So people look at small cheap motorcycles to get around.

However, I do agree with the article about the lack of regulation when it comes to purchasing a motorcycle. Manufacturers have tried before in the past to sell sensible models, but the truth is no one has bought them before. They're trying again now, so we'll see how that goes. I'm a big fan of the new CB500F and CB300F from Honda as a beginner new bike (I still think an older standard is a better alternative for a first bike since you'll probably drop it and you don't want to drop a new bike).

Here's what my first bike was, a 1975 Honda CB500T.

 

[Scarpozzi]

A good friend of mine bought a Harley 1200 custom a couple of years ago. He realized he just doesn't ride it enough to keep it, so he's going to sell it. He got a good enough deal on it, so he'll likely make money if he finds the right buyer.

I got married before I bought a bike, so I'm not allowed to get one. I agree though...it's not practical if you have a family or if it rains or snows where you live.

 

[Yuriman]

A good friend of mine bought a Harley 1200 custom a couple of years ago. He realized he just doesn't ride it enough to keep it, so he's going to sell it. He got a good enough deal on it, so he'll likely make money if he finds the right buyer.

I got married before I bought a bike, so I'm not allowed to get one. I agree though...it's not practical if you have a family or if it rains or snows where you live.

Most places have rain or snow.

I think a cheap motorcycle is still useful for cutting down on gas costs for trips where you don't need an SUV for a single-person commute.

 

[smackababy]

I always treated motorcycles more like a "toy" than a practical car. Sure, you can be used as a daily commuter to save money, but they just don't offer enough utility to forgo owning a car in most cases. They are fantastic to ride though, so in an entertainment sense, a bike is a great hobby.