Why no one should consider voting for Jeb Bush.

[Jhhnn]

I can't believe i have to defend Jeb Bush.. Smh. I'm not exactly a fan of the guy, but this is nonsense.

As discussed over and over here.. All he said was that he would have gone in with the intelligence provided at the time. He didn't say anywhere that he would do it knowing what he does now.

I can't just make a "leap of faith" that the bushes were aware of the bullshit going on. The most credible source that they DID know what the original reports from the CIA said comes from Dick Cheney. Not exactly Mr. Trustworthy. I'm not going to argue about this. I've read the whole thread. You done need to repeat the conspiracy theories. Both sides seem to have a million of them these days.

I also don't make the "leap of faith" that Hillary was informed correctly on Benghazi. The CIA/NSA really suck and care nothing about laws. In the same way the media brainwashes all you democrats and republicans the CIA brainwashes the government. You try sitting in the dark and getting fed shit like our government is.

You're making an entirely different leap of faith- that the invasion of Iraq was not a policy decision made at the highest level & that the "reasons" presented weren't just propaganda in support of it.

Nobody forced the Bush Admin to invade Iraq. It's what they wanted to do & they used every means at their disposal to get America to buy in to it. *Every* means.

Only ruthless emotional manipulation of 9/11 justified the invasion. Not one of their "reasons" turned out to be true. Nobody gets it that wrong except on purpose.

Have the courage to see the truth & to understand how you've been led to believe otherwise.

 

[ivwshane]

For those that still hold onto the notion that Iraq was just a product of failed intelligence, I think this should be required watching and reading:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/view/

 

[mindmajick]

Yes, it ends up being one word vs the other, certainly...I lean towards Clark and Powell and those guys, but maybe that is confirmation bias, but there you go.

Agree with Rick Scott--my dad has the misfortune of living in Jax the last ~15 years; so I tend to get an earful. (Nothing wrong with Jax, by the way--it's just that the local fauna seems to make him angry most of the time)

"Local fauna".

Yeah. Got'em here in fort Myers too.

 

[blastingcap]

Yep. That was when Hillary Clinton was a Senator and, like most of the rest of Congress, knew only what his brother's administratoin spoon fed them.

Is he saying that, knowing what his cohorts knew, then, he would have committed the same crimes to mislead us into war in Iraq and every crime and act of stupidity that followed?

The stupid gene runs deep and dominant in this family. :hmm:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-bush-faces-hostile-questions-about-iraq-war/

 

[Zorkorist]

No one should vote for a Bush, no one should vote for a Clinton.

-John

 

[Brian Stirling]

You're making an entirely different leap of faith- that the invasion of Iraq was not a policy decision made at the highest level & that the "reasons" presented weren't just propaganda in support of it.

Nobody forced the Bush Admin to invade Iraq. It's what they wanted to do & they used every means at their disposal to get America to buy in to it. *Every* means.

Only ruthless emotional manipulation of 9/11 justified the invasion. Not one of their "reasons" turned out to be true. Nobody gets it that wrong except on purpose.

Have the courage to see the truth & to understand how you've been led to believe otherwise.

Yes, the Bush cronies that were members of the PNAC had been pushing to go back into Iraq since at least 1997 when they were sending letters demanding just that to the then president Clinton. The Bush admin was packed full of those NEOCONS and when 9/11 happened they seized upon that as an opportunity to get what they wanted. Within days of 9/11 numerous members of the PNAC and others associated with the admin were out pushing the narrative that Sadam was behind 9/11, had WMD and needed to be stopped.

I'm still unclear, however, just what the dynamic was between the intelligence agencies and the Bush admin. Clearly Cheney was running Bush and it looks as though Cheney had hooks into the intelligence agencies, but what exactly this to/from relationship was we may never know.

When the vote came the Republicans were nearly 100% in favor while the Dems were less than 50% in total. Interestingly, the Democratic senators were much more likely to vote in favor and that maybe due to the greater chance that they would have presidential aspirations. Certainly senators with a significant Jewish base were more inclined to vote in favor as it was pretty well know that Israel was all for getting rid of Sadam. Hillary Clinton, being a senator from NY, a very Jewish state, probably had no choice but to vote in favor of the war or risk losing the Jewish vote.

The Middle East is a shit hole and has been a shit hole for many thousands of years. I'd dearly love to see the world move away from oil towards solar and other renewable s if only to permit us to wave goodbye to that shit hole and let them have at each other till they're all gone.


Brian

 

[Jhhnn]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-bush-faces-hostile-questions-about-iraq-war/

The double down on revisiionist history is astounding-

Bush: We respectfully disagree... Al Qaeda had been taken out, there was a fraudulent system that could have been brought up to create, to eliminate the sectarian violence and we had an agreement that the president could have signed, it would have kept 10,000 troops, which is less than what we have in Korea. It could have created the stability that would have allow for Iraq to progress. The net result was, the opposite occurred because immediately that void was filled. And so, look, you can rewrite history all you want but the simple fact is that we’re in a much more unstable place because America pulled back.

There was no agreement other than the one GWB made that the Iraqis would have signed, the one Obama honored when he pulled out the troops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

Any way that Obama can possibly be blamed will be instantly accepted by the loyal Repub base, bet on that, particularly anything that glosses over how we ended up in Iraq in the first place.

 

[waggy]

No one should vote for a Bush, no one should vote for a Clinton.

-John

/this

 

[rudeguy]

Can W still be vice president?

We need a double Bush ticket!

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Can W still be vice president?

We need a double Bush ticket!

Why not a father/son Bush ticket? Jeb and George P.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why not a father/son Bush ticket? Jeb and George P.

Because they've both served as President.

 

[rudeguy]

Wait...what is Mike Reagan up to?

Bush/Reagan in 16!

 

[zinfamous]

Wait...what is Mike Reagan up to?

Bush/Reagan in 16!

Why not Ron Reagan Jr? too soon for a gay repub nominee? Oh shit--he's atheist too! D:

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why not Ron Reagan Jr? too soon for a gay repub nominee?

Yes it is

 

[zinfamous]

Yes it is

well, apparently he isn't gay, though I always assumed he was, with his several appearances on SNL back in the day, his ballet and all that...I guess it just made sense?

I thought of him as the gay conservative--but looks like he's actually quite liberal, straight yet effeminate, and I'm assuming reviled by the base for "daring" to suggest that his father suffered from Alzheimers while serving as president.

 

[Brian Stirling]

well, apparently he isn't gay, though I always assumed he was, with his several appearances on SNL back in the day, his ballet and all that...I guess it just made sense?

I thought of him as the gay conservative--but looks like he's actually quite liberal, straight yet effeminate, and I'm assuming reviled by the base for "daring" to suggest that his father suffered from Alzheimers while serving as president.

Reagan wasn't quite the dolt that many on the left made him out to be though he was clearly no rocket scientist. It was apparent that his later years in office he'd lost touch in a way suggestive of dementia. At a function that included Princess Diana he fumbled for her name and wound up calling her Princess David -- ooops....


Brian

 

[mindmajick]

Reagan wasn't quite the dolt that many on the left made him out to be though he was clearly no rocket scientist. It was apparent that his later years in office he'd lost touch in a way suggestive of dementia. At a function that included Princess Diana he fumbled for her name and wound up calling her Princess David -- ooops....


Brian

And a convenient reason not to remember things too. You are correct. Neither he nor Oliver North were idiots.

We all know Ollie was a patriot ;-)

 

[werepossum]

you know that is patently absurd; and even a partisan hack such as yourself can sit back and realize how truly stupid this is. The middle east has been on a wave ever since Bush Co decided stir shit up. All roads lead to the Bush family, and you fucking know it.

So your neighbor dumps his trash on your lawn, then blames you for letting him dump it there, and your other neighbor for failing to clean it up properly?

shit man, you don't even try anymore.

Obama has a real spine, unlike that Bush fucker--he doesn't rage his way into foibles, rage his way into dragging our country into endless wars and financial ruins. he actually THINKS before deciding. Something you should try, at least once in your life.

The collective conservative circle jerk that has become so anti-thought, so anti-intelligence is getting tired. You guys are clowns, and would simply entertain the rest of us, if only you didn't have idiots up on a puppet stage bending to your pus-addled brains.

Just to sum it all up, Bush putting his case to Congress for an authorization of force is "raging his way into foibles", whereas Obama announcing that he is attacking Syria for using chemical weapons - when there's no way in hell he's getting that authorization because in fact it's never even been clear which side used chemical weapons, let alone whether it went back to the Assad regime authorization - is an example of thinking before he acts. Gotcha.

The mind, she is blown.

 

[nickqt]

Just to sum it all up, Bush putting his case to Congress for an authorization of force is "raging his way into foibles", whereas Obama announcing that he is attacking Syria for using chemical weapons - when there's no way in hell he's getting that authorization because in fact it's never even been clear which side used chemical weapons, let alone whether it went back to the Assad regime authorization - is an example of thinking before he acts. Gotcha.

The mind, she is blown.

How did KingObummers™ "attacking Syria" go?

 

[werepossum]

How did KingObummers™ "attacking Syria" go?

Adults intervened. He was not allowed to attack Syria.

Well . . . He can attack Syria a little bit. But not invade.

 

[nickqt]

Adults intervened. He was not allowed to attack Syria.

Well . . . He can attack Syria a little bit. But not invade.

Oh. Right.

So Obama said something, and without having to attack Syria, the issue was resolved by...Adults.

That's rather vague.

Care to identify those adults who stepped in?

 

[zinfamous]

Reagan wasn't quite the dolt that many on the left made him out to be though he was clearly no rocket scientist. It was apparent that his later years in office he'd lost touch in a way suggestive of dementia. At a function that included Princess Diana he fumbled for her name and wound up calling her Princess David -- ooops....


Brian

A true classic mastermind

 

[werepossum]

Oh. Right.

So Obama said something, and without having to attack Syria, the issue was resolved by...Adults.

That's rather vague.

Care to identify those adults who stepped in?

lol Look it up. It'll build character.

 

[Jhhnn]

Just to sum it all up, Bush putting his case to Congress for an authorization of force is "raging his way into foibles", whereas Obama announcing that he is attacking Syria for using chemical weapons - when there's no way in hell he's getting that authorization because in fact it's never even been clear which side used chemical weapons, let alone whether it went back to the Assad regime authorization - is an example of thinking before he acts. Gotcha.

The mind, she is blown.

Obama's brinkmanship worked as intended.

Jealous?

I disagree w/ zinfamous about "raging foibles"- the propaganda campaign leading up to the invasion of Iraq was ruthless, coldly calculated & masterfully effective. A tour de force in manipulation of the media & public sentiment.

If they intended to fracture Iraq, and I think it's obvious that they did, their occupation methods served their purposes as well. Completely disband the govt of a socialist country, including the police. Hand out small arms & ammo like candy on halloween, arming all the factions. Destroy the economy. Sow hate & discontent, sit back & watch 'em tear into each other. Warp the elections to get the weak factional govt they wanted. Watch as millions of refugees flee to Syria, destabilizing their govt. Establish a withdrawal timetable that their successor has to live with.

It'll be a helluva long time before any of them pose an existential threat to Israel or KSA ever again, bet on that.

It seems to have been the whole point, really. Well, that and war profiteering.

Mission accomplished in ways few even have the courage to contemplate.

 

[ivwshane]

Obama's brinkmanship worked as intended.

Jealous?

I disagree w/ zinfamous about "raging foibles"- the propaganda campaign leading up to the invasion of Iraq was ruthless, coldly calculated & masterfully effective. A tour de force in manipulation of the media & public sentiment.

If they intended to fracture Iraq, and I think it's obvious that they did, their occupation methods served their purposes as well. Completely disband the govt of a socialist country, including the police. Hand out small arms & ammo like candy on halloween, arming all the factions. Destroy the economy. Sow hate & discontent, sit back & watch 'em tear into each other. Warp the elections to get the weak factional govt they wanted. Watch as millions of refugees flee to Syria, destabilizing their govt. Establish a withdrawal timetable that their successor has to live with.

It'll be a helluva long time before any of them pose an existential threat to Israel or KSA ever again, bet on that.

It seems to have been the whole point, really. Well, that and war profiteering.

Mission accomplished in ways few even have the courage to contemplate.

Don't forget to lose billions of dollars!

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101773198

You won't hear a fucking peep from the right though! Nope! Instead we need to cut taxes for the rich and cut services for the less fortunate!