Why no one should consider voting for Jeb Bush.

[Jhhnn]

Can you please (calmly) explain to me how you can accept Hillary being mistaken in believing Bush but you can't accept Bush being mistaken in believing the intelligence reports?

I keep trying to understand that part and my brain can't figure it out.

Please. The invasion of Iraq was the culmination of an intense propaganda campaign directed from the Bush White House & the Defense Dept. Their exploitation of 9/11 for that purpose was masterful & ruthless, completely unprincipled, utterly fraudulent.

Whatever their reasons, the intelligence reports were selected from thousands to serve their purposes. Old intelligence reports were, uhh, "re-evaluated" with that goal in mind.

GWB said "find me a way" & his minions did so. Intelligence reports & so forth were merely selected & used to justify pre-existing desire.

America was both bullied & chumped into going to war by the bushistas. Some of us realized it at the time, some later, and some obviously never will being unable to admit they were chumped. Staying chumped about that & a lot of other stuff defines the Repub base.

 

[chowderhead]

Last I checked, votes do not happen as a "party". Those dems who voted against it are not to blame, those who voted for it (and that's a majority of the senate, including hildabeast) share blame.



I disagree, there's a very reasonable answer: "given the intelligence provided at the time and the advice provided at the time, I would have probably made the same decision. In light of all the information we've learned since then, I would not."

That doesn't throw his brother under the bus, but also acknowledges that in light of what we now know the whole thing was not a good idea. Hindsight is always 20/20, nothing wrong with learning from information you gain along the way.

Jeb Bush didn't learn anything. I think he still believes the Iraq War and regime change was worth it given what we know now. It took him 5 attempts to say whatever it is he ended up saying after his advisers got through looking at the reactions. Is he supposed to be the smart one because I cannot tell.
Jeb Bush was an original signer of the PNAC statement of beliefs which called for regime change in Iraq. He is a true believer neocon along with Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc.

 

[JSt0rm]

I cant believe how bad this guy fumbled the ball.

 

[master_shake_]

rick perry would have executed the iraq strategy even without evidence. hell even if evidence was found that there were no wmds.

rick perry would execute anything.

 

[Harvey]

Jeb Bush didn't learn anything. I think he still believes the Iraq War and regime change was worth it given what we know now. It took him 5 attempts to say whatever it is he ended up saying after his advisers got through looking at the reactions. Is he supposed to be the smart one because I cannot tell.
Jeb Bush was an original signer of the PNAC statement of beliefs which called for regime change in Iraq. He is a true believer neocon along with Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc.

You just named at least half of the people on Jeb's staff as "advisors." They're the only ones on the planet who still defend their treachery to this day. That's exactly why I made the title of this thread, "Why no one should consider voting for Jeb Bush." The "no one" I refer to includes the vast majority of today's Republicans.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I cant believe how bad this guy fumbled the ball.

I know I'd think he would have been practiced for this. Even more odd it started with fox news.

 

[Meghan54]

I know I'd think he would have been practiced for this. Even more odd it started with fox news.

They threw him a softball and he tried to throw a touchdown bomb....and he's been fumbling ever since.

 

[zinfamous]

They threw him a softball and he tried to throw a touchdown bomb....and he's been fumbling ever since.

Bellicheck would have benched him by now.






Or just given him a deflated ball.

 

[trenchfoot]

Assuming focus groups and advisers are used to screen upcoming interviews, especially if the interview is going to be adversarial (of which the FOX interview was NOT), I have to also assume that someone or some persons gave the heads up for Jeb to say just what he did.

I can see that in the FOX bubble, that's something that's just fine and dandy to say. In that insular bubble where Romney was going to easily win over Obama and the ACA was going to destroy America, Jeb was spot on in his commentary. But there exists the real world where what he said was akin to committing political hara kiri with a knife made of wood.

Jeb's interview was meant to rally the base around him, and maybe it did to some extent. But he and his team utterly failed to recognize the potential maelstrom that awaited them outside their "safe zone".

 

[Blackjack200]

I think he just fucked up and answered the wrong question. IIRC Megan Kelly said "given what we know now" and he said "well, based on what they knew at the time". Maybe he did that deliberately, but that just makes it a different kind of fuck up.

 

[JSt0rm]

I think he just fucked up and answered the wrong question. IIRC Megan Kelly said "given what we know now" and he said "well, based on what they knew at the time". Maybe he did that deliberately, but that just makes it a different kind of fuck up.

When going for the presidency you cant fuck up like that.

 

[zinfamous]

When going for the presidency you cant fuck up like that.

He's going to start looking like Selena Meyers on the campaign.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think he just fucked up and answered the wrong question. IIRC Megan Kelly said "given what we know now" and he said "well, based on what they knew at the time". Maybe he did that deliberately, but that just makes it a different kind of fuck up.

Depends on who "we" are. If we are rational people, "we" know that we were flimflammed, suckered, chumped & manipulated into war in service to the Neocon/ Israeli agenda, even if we were believers at the time. It's easier to admit to having been mistaken over things that happened a long time ago, and it's been a long time. For anybody who can achieve even a little bit of detachment from their emotions, the evidence is overwhelming.

OTOH, if "we" are true believers, "we" are unreachable, beyond reason, like these folks-

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/poll-republicans-wmds-iraq-114016.html

That's pretty astounding, a significant portion of the electorate and a very significant portion of Repub primary voters. No serious contender for the Repub nomination can overlook that.

 

[JSt0rm]

Depends on who "we" are. If we are rational people, "we" know that we were flimflammed, suckered, chumped & manipulated into war in service to the Neocon/ Israeli agenda, even if we were believers at the time. It's easier to admit to having been mistaken over things that happened a long time ago, and it's been a long time. For anybody who can achieve even a little bit of detachment from their emotions, the evidence is overwhelming.

OTOH, if "we" are true believers, "we" are unreachable, beyond reason, like these folks-

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/poll-republicans-wmds-iraq-114016.html

That's pretty astounding, a significant portion of the electorate and a very significant portion of Repub primary voters. No serious contender for the Repub nomination can overlook that.

That seems accurate for the party of stupid.

 

[MongGrel]

They threw him a softball and he tried to throw a touchdown bomb....and he's been fumbling ever since.

+1

That and the fact he said he still takes advice about the ME from Dubya today just makes it worse.

 

[UberNeuman]

+1

That and the fact he said he still takes advice about the ME from Dubya today just makes it worse.

I doubt it'll end his run, but it is quite damaged at this point.

 

[trenchfoot]

I doubt it'll end his run, but it is quite damaged at this point.

Still early enough in the runup to the primaries for potential Repub voters to forgive and forget, although for one thing, he was preaching to the choir with that sour note, and if Jeb does end up winning the nominating frag-fest, that whopper of a tell on his ideological leanings will come back to haunt him in the general with "Remember the 47%!!" still ringing in Democrat's ears.

 

[Jhhnn]

I doubt it'll end his run, but it is quite damaged at this point.

Not really. Any 2016 Repub nominee will need to defend the righteousness of the invasion of Iraq in order to win the nomination & none of them can control the conversation well enough to avoid the issue.

How it'll play in the general election is another matter entirely.

9/11 is also far enough behind us that any Dem nominee, even Hillary, can come out swinging.

 

[mindmajick]

Not really. Any 2016 Repub nominee will need to defend the righteousness of the invasion of Iraq in order to win the nomination & none of them can control the conversation well enough to avoid the issue.

How it'll play in the general election is another matter entirely.

9/11 is also far enough behind us that any Dem nominee, even Hillary, can come out swinging.

Completely untrue. During the last election most of the republicans distanced themselves from bush and his policies.

I don't see any reason things would be any different.

 

[Jhhnn]

Completely untrue. During the last election most of the republicans distanced themselves from bush and his policies.

I don't see any reason things would be any different.

Examples? Particularly wrt Iraq?

At the level of ideology & policy they're still swapping spit with Dubya & Dickie, even though they try to pretend that they're not. Look no further than the letter to Iran to figure that out.

The worst any of them will say is that our leader was misled by bad information when in truth the rest of us were misled by the bad information he & his minions provided.

No 2016 Repub nominee can speak that truth & win the nomination.

 

[zinfamous]

Completely untrue. During the last election most of the republicans distanced themselves from bush and his policies.

I don't see any reason things would be any different.

Which is why Jeb basically saying "I AM IRAQ!" is pretty fucking stupid, you know?

 

[mindmajick]

Which is why Jeb basically saying "I AM IRAQ!" is pretty fucking stupid, you know?

I can't believe i have to defend Jeb Bush.. Smh. I'm not exactly a fan of the guy, but this is nonsense.

As discussed over and over here.. All he said was that he would have gone in with the intelligence provided at the time. He didn't say anywhere that he would do it knowing what he does now.

I can't just make a "leap of faith" that the bushes were aware of the bullshit going on. The most credible source that they DID know what the original reports from the CIA said comes from Dick Cheney. Not exactly Mr. Trustworthy. I'm not going to argue about this. I've read the whole thread. You done need to repeat the conspiracy theories. Both sides seem to have a million of them these days.

I also don't make the "leap of faith" that Hillary was informed correctly on Benghazi. The CIA/NSA really suck and care nothing about laws. In the same way the media brainwashes all you democrats and republicans the CIA brainwashes the government. You try sitting in the dark and getting fed shit like our government is.

 

[zinfamous]

I can't believe i have to defend Jeb Bush.. Smh. I'm not exactly a fan of the guy, but this is nonsense.

As discussed over and over here.. All he said was that he would have gone in with the intelligence provided at the time. He didn't say anywhere that he would do it knowing what he does now.

I can't just make a "leap of faith" that the bushes were aware of the bullshit going on. The most credible source that they DID know what the original reports from the CIA said comes from Dick Cheney. Not exactly Mr. Trustworthy. I'm not going to argue about this. I've read the whole thread. You done need to repeat the conspiracy theories. Both sides seem to have a million of them these days.

I also don't make the "leap of faith" that Hillary was informed correctly on Benghazi. The CIA/NSA really suck and care nothing about laws. In the same way the media brainwashes all you democrats and republicans the CIA brainwashes the government. You try sitting in the dark and getting fed shit like our government is.

You shouldn't strain yourself defending him, because the statement he made is still disingenuous.

The Iraq "intelligence" didn't just sprinkle on to the Admin's desk unsolicited--it was deliberately cherry-picked over years+ of intelligence reports to justify a wanted invasion. BushCo. wasn't fed shit by the CIA--they sifted through the available pile and picked the smelliest morsels of shit that they were looking for, and fed that directly to Congress and the American people.

The Iraq war was an ideological cause for the Dubya admin the day that Bush took the oath. All they needed was an arbitrary link. (Much of this comes from Wesley Clark; so I would trust him over Mr Cheney)

Jeb making such a statement is revealing one of two things:
--He's perfectly ignorant to the machinations of his brother and his handlers
--Being that Jeb keeps the same brain trust of advisers around, he's a true believer in the Wolfowitz doctrine and, knowing what he knew then, (and knowing what he knows now?)...he would find any reason to do it over, and over, and over, and over again.

trotting out the zombie lie again, that dems voted for it and are equally culpable may play well to the yokels that can't be bothered with numbers and vote on single issues like guns!--but it makes the man a plum fool to the people that actually win elections with their votes (the literate type).

In the end, it's truly baffling that he would respond to any questions about Iraq. His name is so irreversibly poisoned, and I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a push to get it legally changed.

Dude is starting to sound like a product of his own embarrassingly failed education overhaul in Florida.

 

[mindmajick]

You shouldn't strain yourself defending him, because the statement he made is still disingenuous.

The Iraq "intelligence" didn't just sprinkle on to the Admin's desk unsolicited--it was deliberately cherry-picked over years+ of intelligence reports to justify a wanted invasion. BushCo. wasn't fed shit by the CIA--they sifted through the available pile and picked the smelliest morsels of shit that they were looking for, and fed that directly to Congress and the American people.

The Iraq war was an ideological cause for the Dubya admin the day that Bush took the oath. All they needed was an arbitrary link. (Much of this comes from Wesley Clark; so I would trust him over Mr Cheney)

Jeb making such a statement is revealing one of two things:
--He's perfectly ignorant to the machinations of his brother and his handlers
--Being that Jeb keeps the same brain trust of advisers around, he's a true believer in the Wolfowitz doctrine and, knowing what he knew then, (and knowing what he knows now?)...he would find any reason to do it over, and over, and over, and over again.

trotting out the zombie lie again, that dems voted for it and are equally culpable may play well to the yokels that can't be bothered with numbers and vote on single issues like guns!--but it makes the man a plum fool to the people that actually win elections with their votes (the literate type).

In the end, it's truly baffling that he would respond to any questions about Iraq. His name is so irreversibly poisoned, and I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a push to get it legally changed.

Dude is starting to sound like a product of his own embarrassingly failed education overhaul in Florida.

I wont disagree over his failures in Florida. I live there. He was exponentially better than this Rick Scott we're stuck with now though.

Everything else is hearsay. Wouldn't stand up in a court of law. There's no real way to verify the Truth is this case so i assume innocence before guilt.

I actually believe what you are saying is PROBABLY the truth. But there are no REAL facts to go by.

 

[zinfamous]

I wont disagree over his failures in Florida. I live there. He was exponentially better than this Rick Scott we're stuck with now though.

Everything else is hearsay. Wouldn't stand up in a court of law. There's no real way to verify the Truth is this case so i assume innocence before guilt.

I actually believe what you are saying is PROBABLY the truth. But there are no REAL facts to go by.

Yes, it ends up being one word vs the other, certainly...I lean towards Clark and Powell and those guys, but maybe that is confirmation bias, but there you go.

Agree with Rick Scott--my dad has the misfortune of living in Jax the last ~15 years; so I tend to get an earful. (Nothing wrong with Jax, by the way--it's just that the local fauna seems to make him angry most of the time)