Why no $50 HEVC/VP9 decode capable GPU?

[escrow4]

So, everyone consumes media. Thing is there is no $50 GPU with the following features:

- 8/10 bit HEVC/x265 decoding
- 8/10 bit H.264 /x264 decoding
- 4K support
- Displayport + HDMI
- 2GB GDDRx
- 128-bit (don't be tight now)
- Fanless

That won't cost that much, will it? Forget gaming, a perfect display card. Why? Kaby Lake is finally ticking most of those boxes but why is there no-one releasing such a card? I've just purchased a $50 (slightly more local) MXQ Android box that covers the first 2 points and in theory can do three, its ridiculous that an aftermarket card can't do it cheap.

 

[SPBHM]

they are to busy selling GPUs from 2012-2013 at this price range, perhaps with the new process... like a year from now we will be seeing some new small GPUs?

or maybe not, because IGPs are so predominant and the market for $50 cards is not as big as it once was, and they can also push some $100 cards for someone looking at cheap cards with more features than the Intel IGPs?

 

[cbn]

I think GP108 and a cut down Polaris would fulfill most of the criteria you mention.

However, 128 bit GDDR5 and fanless....I don't think we will see that combo.

 

[VirtualLarry]

However, 128 bit GDDR5 and fanless....I don't think we will see that combo.

I agree, I don't think that we would see that. Also, you don't need 128-bit memory nor GDDR5(X) for just a "display / media" card.

I could see a re-hash (on 14nm?) of a Kepler 384SP GT630 / 730.

Low-profile, fanless, single-slot (well, mostly, my Zotac cards have a heatsink that touched other cards).

All you would need to do is add a new media-decode block (HEVC 8/10, VP9), and possibly HDMI2.0 (for 4K).

 

[R0H1T]

So, everyone consumes media. Thing is there is no $50 GPU with the following features:

- 8/10 bit HEVC/x265 decoding
- 8/10 bit H.264 /x264 decoding
- 4K support
- Displayport + HDMI
- 2GB GDDRx
- 128-bit (don't be tight now)
- Fanless

That won't cost that much, will it? Forget gaming, a perfect display card. Why? Kaby Lake is finally ticking most of those boxes but why is there no-one releasing such a card? I've just purchased a $50 (slightly more local) MXQ Android box that covers the first 2 points and in theory can do three, its ridiculous that an aftermarket card can't do it cheap.

Yes it will, the royalties are too high for HEVC. It's only recently that they were lowered, this is also the reason why Google offered VP9 as an alternative to HEVC. The upcoming VP10 is a candidate for Internet Video Codec netvc, will probably be used by many sites & not just Youtube.

Consider this, how many applicatons support HEVC, lesser still that support Hi10P. Now the number of cameras, camcorders that support native HEVC encode & decode is probably in low double digits & smartphones have just started supporting them since last year. The royalties, lack of hardware support full (hw) encode & decode, along with application support makes it hard to justify investing in such a GPU. Then there's the small matter of VP10 which probably will replace VP9 on Youtube starting next year, if it also becomes netvc then it'll be more competent & important than HEVC making the latter all but obsolete after some time.

 

[cbn]

I agree, I don't think that we would see that. Also, you don't need 128-bit memory nor GDDR5(X) for just a "display / media" card.

I could see a re-hash (on 14nm?) of a Kepler 384SP GT630 / 730.

Low-profile, fanless, single-slot (well, mostly, my Zotac cards have a heatsink that touched other cards).

All you would need to do is add a new media-decode block (HEVC 8/10, VP9), and possibly HDMI2.0 (for 4K).

If GP108 follows the trend of other Nvidia '08 GPUs (GM108, GK108, GF108) it should fullfill that low power role on 14nm and come with features (HEVC 8/10, VP9, HDMI 2.0) you are referring to. So Pascal for Nvidia's low end.

(Side Note: Nvida's GT720 came with an option for GDDR5 on a 64 bit bus, so maybe a fanless GP108 with 64 bit GDDR5 option?)

However, I also wonder if Nvidia uses a cut down GM206 with DDR3 before these GP108 cards launch? This depending on how high demand is for HDMI 2.0 and H265? (I've noticed 4K monitors/TVs are dropping price but they haven't got that low yet)

As far as AMD goes the small Polaris is supposed to be ~50W with GDDR5....so I'm hoping we also get a cut down lower clocked version of that with 128bit DDR4 for the fanless and/or low profile role. (Would be very nice for various refurbished SFF Pre-builts including those from the Sandy Bridge era).

P.S. Something I've been thinking about for the future would be how much GPU is optimal for 4K web page browsing (specifically 4K web page scrolling)....but with 14nm FinFET I would think we should get a good amount of GPU even with a fanless card.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

If GP108 follows the trend of other Nvidia '08 GPUs (GM108, GK108, GF108) it should fullfill that low power role on 14nm and come with features (HEVC 8/10, VP9, HDMI 2.0) you are referring to. So Pascal for Nvidia's low end.

Problem is you can't currently buy a desktop GM108. It only exists as a mobile option. With that in mind, I'd expect a GP108 chip to be the same.

Which is a **** shame, because I could really use a card like this for my HTPC. What's worse is that there isn't even an AMD alternative, they can only do h.264.

 

[Headfoot]

Buying fixed function hardware for decode at this juncture seems like a waste of time and money. With a $50 card like you say it would be cheap enough to be worth it. But with display tech rapidly changing, HDMI 2 not always working with the latest HDCP, and new bit depths coming out, and proper decoding cards being $100AR minimum ( e.g. 950) etc. i'd rather rely on CPU until the market settles a bit, imo.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Agree with above. Brute it out on cpu or slum it with H.264 until the dust settles. With VP10, even GM206 (currently the best video decoding cards available) will not be useful in decoding it.

This is a long battle though. As of now, I'd be inclined to say an i7 quad (or even hex) with a good cooler will be the better bet for the future as opposed to attempting to catch a break on hardware decode.

 

[cbn]

Problem is you can't currently buy a desktop GM108. It only exists as a mobile option. With that in mind, I'd expect a GP108 chip to be the same.

Which is a **** shame, because I could really use a card like this for my HTPC. What's worse is that there isn't even an AMD alternative, they can only do h.264.

Rumor had it we would get a GM108 desktop card called GT 930:

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gt-930-launch-q1-2016-maxwell-kepler-fermi/

However, since it doesn't have HDMI 2.0 or H265 I wonder if they might skip it and go straight to GP108 for HTPC users. That or use a cut down/low clocked GM206 with DDR3.

EDIT: According to this Wikipedia entry Maxwell v1 (eg, GM108) does have some interesting feature set advancements over Kepler including hybrid H265 decoding via feature set E (which Kepler based cards don't have), so maybe we do see GM108 based GT930 after all. With that mentioned GK208 cards like GT710 are starting at $29.99 shipped so it will be interesting to see how they would price a GM108 based card.

But anyway, the reason I mention the '08 GPUs is that because whether desktop or mobile they have been the lowest power ones in Nvidia's product line. So I expect GP108 to be the same way.

 

[escrow4]

Agree with above. Brute it out on cpu or slum it with H.264 until the dust settles. With VP10, even GM206 (currently the best video decoding cards available) will not be useful in decoding it.

This is a long battle though. As of now, I'd be inclined to say an i7 quad (or even hex) with a good cooler will be the better bet for the future as opposed to attempting to catch a break on hardware decode.

It just seems redundant when a GPU could be built. HEVC is fairly finalised by now, H.264 is well known and VP9 shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[cbn]

It just seems redundant when a GPU could be built. HEVC is fairly finalised by now, H.264 is well known and VP9 shouldn't be that difficult.

Assuming this rumor of GTX 750 SE using GM206 silicon becomes true, all the specs you listed in the OP would be possible....but the card would be large and more expensive than $50.

See this GTX 750 below as an example, but imagine it with cutdown GM206 silicon (as per the linked rumor):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121911

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Agree with above. Brute it out on cpu or slum it with H.264 until the dust settles. With VP10, even GM206 (currently the best video decoding cards available) will not be useful in decoding it.

This is a long battle though. As of now, I'd be inclined to say an i7 quad (or even hex) with a good cooler will be the better bet for the future as opposed to attempting to catch a break on hardware decode.

My 6800K is quite competent, but it'll have to be replaced fairly soon as it doesn't have the grunt to do 4K h.264 SW deconding, much less 4K SW h.265 decoding. It doesn't matter right now since I don't have a 4K TV currently, I'm waiting for the dust to settle with HDMI 2.0a, HDR and OLED. However I am starting to get small amounts of 4K media.

But at least I now have an excuse to put a... different 6800K... in my HTPC. :hmm: :biggrin:

Rumor had it we would get a GM108 desktop card called GT 930:

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gt-930-launch-q1-2016-maxwell-kepler-fermi/

However, since it doesn't have HDMI 2.0 or H265 I wonder if they might skip it and go straight to GP108 for HTPC users. That or use a cut down/low clocked GM206 with DDR3.

They could still release such a card, but I think it unlikely.

EDIT: According to this Wikipedia entry Maxwell v1 (eg, GM108) does have some interesting feature set advancements over Kepler including hybrid H265 decoding via feature set E (which Kepler based cards don't have), so maybe we do see GM108 based GT930 after all. With that mentioned GK208 cards like GT710 are starting at $29.99 shipped so it will be interesting to see how they would price a GM108 based card.

The highlighted part is what makes GM108 interesting in the first place.

 

[cbn]

Here is a picture of the Passive R7 240 made by XFX:

R7 240 uses a cut down Oland die spec'd at 320sp and 720 Mhz/780Mhz. TDP is 30W.

The full size/full power Oland GPU (used in R7 250) is spec'd at 384sp and 1050 Mhz. TDP is 65W.

So if Polaris 11 TDP is 50W for the full size/full power version, I would think getting power to 30W (or lower) with some cut down/lower clocked Polaris 11 variant would be very possible.

The question is could GDDR5 be spec'd for a cut down/low clocked Polaris 11 while maintaining the passive heatsink? We did see at least one GDDR5 version of R7 240, but it wasn't passive. However, we have seen larger passive cards with GDDR5 (eg, ASUS GTX 750 and XFX R7 250) so it may be possible.

I guess it just depends on how low they clock a cut down Polaris 11 and what TDP they are aiming for? If TDP is substantially lower than 30W and the DDR4 memory is fast enough my guess is that we would only see GDDR5 on a overclock card (of cut down Polaris 11). But would they make such a overclock card with GDDR5 passive?

 

[IllogicalGlory]

Apparently some Polaris 11 variants run passively (according to PCper's Ryan Shrout), but $50 is probably not in the cards.

 

[cbn]

R7 250 and R7 240 launched at $89 and $69 respectively in October 2013, but the R7 240 low profile variant could be found on sale as low as $40 in 2014.

So maybe there is some chance for $50 eventually depending on how the Polaris 11 cards get priced.

But $50 for Passive and GDDR5 together I am doubtful.

 

[Heatshiver]

From what I have seen with Android TV Boxes, they can't handle 10-bit files. They can get them to show with frame skipping or extreme lag and audio issues, but that's about it. You can do 8-bit, but good luck beyond that.

 

[nopainnogain]

I would buy a $50 HEVC/VP9 decode capable GPU right now if such thing existed.

And within a year it will be absolutely necessary in order to give a new life for many HTPCs out there.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I would buy a $50 HEVC/VP9 decode capable GPU right now if such thing existed.

And within a year it will be absolutely necessary in order to give a new life for many HTPCs out there.

Kaby Lake Celeron should do the trick

 

[nopainnogain]

Kaby Lake Celeron should do the trick

Yep! I would only need to buy a new CPU, a new motherboard and new RAM. Seems to be a bargain...

 

[Arachnotronic]

Yep! I would only need to buy a new CPU, a new motherboard and new RAM. Seems to be a bargain...

No pain, no gain...

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

 

[thesmokingman]

Kaby Lake Celeron should do the trick

In my experience qsync with skylake and hevc have been very spotty. Maxwell/Pascal + cpu + mediaencoder has been much better. Half the time using skylake and handbrake, stuff comes out bad real bad so often that I stopped using it. I doubt kaby lake would be an improvement.

 

[Arachnotronic]

In my experience qsync with skylake and hevc have been very spotty. Maxwell/Pascal + cpu + mediaencoder has been much better. Half the time using skylake and handbrake, stuff comes out bad real bad so often that I stopped using it. I doubt kaby lake would be an improvement.

Interesting!

 

[nopainnogain]

No pain, no gain...

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

Never mind but... in such case it would be a lot of pain

Damn. Gimme a $50 cheap GPU and I'll be happy.

 

[thesmokingman]

Interesting!

The most annoying part is that there is almost zero data out there to try and fix it, so I just said F it and moved to nvenc, much much faster and consistently better results.