Why netbooks?

[Fox5]

What role do netbooks really fulfill that modern, high-end phones can't? Netbooks seem to sell for around $400, and for that price you can get yourself a nice phone capable of browsing the Internet. Even if you don't want to pay for a data plan, you can still get a PDA, ipod touch, nokia n800/n810, or any other wifi equipped device.

A netbook is good for little more than browsing the Internet, yet these handheld (and even pocket-sized) devices handle the Internet pretty well, some can even do flash. I don't really see where a netbook fits in. (though they get better battery life than my old pda)

 

[yh125d]

I browse a lot on my HTC, but there is definitely a niche market for netbooks, between smartphones and small notebooks

 

[Zap]

I have an MSI Wind netbook and a Palm Treo 750 smart phone.

GAMES
I would rather play Starcraft on my netbook than any game that Windows Mobile can play. Heck, my netbook can play WoW, Heroes 2, Diablo 2, Quake 3 and a ton of other games.

INTERNET
I would rather have the 10" screen with 1024x600 pixels versus the square 2.5" screen of 240x240 pixels (or whatever it is). Seriously, I've browsed web pages and it really sucks on the phone.

NAVIGATION
I can use a BT mouse with my netbook. Heck, the touch pad even works okay. Phone needs either the arrow-type buttons or the touch feature (fingertip or stylus). Sounds great? Meh, fiddly to have to pull out the stylus, plus fingertip isn't very precise.

BATTERY
Uh yeah, the Treo 750 probably has a 2.5 hour battery life when browsing the net on 3G. My netbook has gotten pretty much 5 hours (power savings on, backlight minimum).

PORTABILITY
Alright, so the phone fits in a normal pocket. Haven't tried with the MSI Wind, but with the slightly smaller 9" Eee PC 900 series a typical cargo pocket in cargo pants/shorts will fit the netbook. Seriously, we've tried it.

Once we get phones with Tegra and maybe a fold-out larger screen or built-in projector and battery life at least doubles, I might get rid of my netbook.

Actually I might get rid of it anyways, in favor of some future model with 11-12" screen that is higher resolution (what, 1366x768?). Give me one of those with a dual core Atom, 5+ hour battery and Ion in a 3 pound package and I'm sold!

 

[yh125d]

Originally posted by: Zap
I have an MSI Wind netbook and a Palm Treo 750 smart phone.

GAMES
I would rather play Starcraft on my netbook than any game that Windows Mobile can play. Heck, my netbook can play WoW, Heroes 2, Diablo 2, Quake 3 and a ton of other games.

INTERNET
I would rather have the 10" screen with 1024x600 pixels versus the square 2.5" screen of 240x240 pixels (or whatever it is). Seriously, I've browsed web pages and it really sucks on the phone.

NAVIGATION
I can use a BT mouse with my netbook. Heck, the touch pad even works okay. Phone needs either the arrow-type buttons or the touch feature (fingertip or stylus). Sounds great? Meh, fiddly to have to pull out the stylus, plus fingertip isn't very precise.

BATTERY
Uh yeah, the Treo 750 probably has a 2.5 hour battery life when browsing the net on 3G. My netbook has gotten pretty much 5 hours (power savings on, backlight minimum).

PORTABILITY
Alright, so the phone fits in a normal pocket. Haven't tried with the MSI Wind, but with the slightly smaller 9" Eee PC 900 series a typical cargo pocket in cargo pants/shorts will fit the netbook. Seriously, we've tried it.

Once we get phones with Tegra and maybe a fold-out larger screen or built-in projector and battery life at least doubles, I might get rid of my netbook.

Actually I might get rid of it anyways, in favor of some future model with 11-12" screen that is higher resolution (what, 1366x768?). Give me one of those with a dual core Atom, 5+ hour battery and Ion in a 3 pound package and I'm sold!

Would http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2318741&enterthread=y interest you maybe?

 

[Parasitic]

Netbooks are more open than PDA's and smartphones, but also at the same time try too hard to do and become everything. It's really a wonderful machine to have to check e-mails, browse the web, do a little word processing and maybe listen to music or watch youtube videos, but the fun stops there. Anything else you'll be straining the Atom and the GPU. Having lived through the combination of a Treo 600 and an IrDA keyboard with Documents-to-Go Pro as a poor substitute of a real laptop, I can assure you that I would've loved to have a netbook a few years back so I could take notes in my humanity classes.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Parasitic
Netbooks are more open than PDA's and smartphones, but also at the same time try too hard to do and become everything. It's really a wonderful machine to have to check e-mails, browse the web, do a little word processing and maybe listen to music or watch youtube videos, but the fun stops there. Anything else you'll be straining the Atom and the GPU. Having lived through the combination of a Treo 600 and an IrDA keyboard with Documents-to-Go Pro as a poor substitute of a real laptop, I can assure you that I would've loved to have a netbook a few years back so I could take notes in my humanity classes.

You can already browse the web, do a little word processing, listen to music, and watch youtube on some smartphones and pdas.

I just fail to see where netbooks fit in. For laptop-like use, they're not small enough compared to a normal small or mid sized laptop to be portable without a bag, and their performance and size could seriously hurt their usability. I went through college on a 12" ultraportable thinkpad with 1024x768 res and that was difficult to use. (then again, I also had a pda, and that was worse, 320x240 is way to low for spreadsheets and word processing, and even the 640x480 units just quadrupled pixel size to make such apps just as unusable as their low res counterparts)

However, for web browsing, my PDA was tolerable, especially if you just need to read some articles, post on anandtech, or check email. I could watch youtube videos or movies too.

It seems to me that the size of the netbook is a rather minor point of the netbook experience, they're really just cheap laptops. In which case, if you can afford a laptop (or were considering a netbook above $400), then you'd be better off with a laptop. If you just want to check email and a few web-sites on the go, pocket devices have already advanced far enough to make it worthwhile, some even have 640x480 screens or better.

 

[IlllI]

cheap. light. portable. cheap. better battery life than the cheapest low-end laptop. did i mention cheap? also, not everyone wants to look at a tiny 4in screen for web browsing or using thumbs to type stuff in with that teeny phone keyboard

 

[GaryJohnson]

There are a lot of things that you can do with a netbook that you can't do with a phone. There are so many apps that will run on a netbook compared to what's available on ANY phone platform that you can't begin to compare the numbers without bringing in some scientific notation or something. The fun definately does not stop with websurfing. Just about any pre-2001 or so game will run on a netbook without any problems.

There are some apps, but not nearly as many, that will run on a full size laptop, but not on a netbook. There's no reason to go heavier and more expensive if you don't want to run one of those apps.

You can get a $400+ netbook, but you can also get a new one for as little as $250.

if you can afford a laptop, then you'd be better off with a laptop

Why exactly? If you don't need the additional functionality of a bigger more expensive laptop, why would you buy one? If you do need that functionality, you wouldn't be looking at a netbook in the first place.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: GaryJohnson

if you can afford a laptop, then you'd be better off with a laptop

Why exactly? If you don't need the additional functionality of a bigger more expensive laptop, why would you buy one? If you do need that functionality, you wouldn't be looking at a netbook in the first place.

I just got an iPhone from my friend (using it as a Touch) so I can evaluate how well I would be able to replace my laptop with it (short version, I may not be able to afford my new laptop before i donate my current to my sister) for movie watching, web browsing, and music purposes.

While a larger screen like on a netbook would be nice, there are just too many compromises.

-It looks like a laptop, so you expect it to perform like a laptop, and come away disappointed.
-They aren't as portable as they look.
-The keyboards are cramped and (for me) hard to type on
-The trackpads are cramped (and since I am used to my MacBook) and suck horribly
-Windows XP
-Not easily pocketable for me to take it to work, would still need to lug bag and power adapter

For me at least, I would buy a real laptop for the larger screen, better keyboard, ability to run something other than XP Home (yes I know about Linux on there, but I am not a fan) better trackpad, and fewer compromises with regards to performance.

My iPhone has a great browser, I can take notes with it, get maps, listen to music, watch movies, almost anything I normally do on my laptop. Since it is a small handheld, its limitations are front and center at all times, and I come away pleased with the experience.

I would rather have a handheld that goes above and beyond than a tiny laptop that disappoints at every turn.

 

[IlllI]

lol but stu you only recommend macs, so its no wonder you dont like them

 

[Parasitic]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Parasitic
Netbooks are more open than PDA's and smartphones, but also at the same time try too hard to do and become everything. It's really a wonderful machine to have to check e-mails, browse the web, do a little word processing and maybe listen to music or watch youtube videos, but the fun stops there. Anything else you'll be straining the Atom and the GPU. Having lived through the combination of a Treo 600 and an IrDA keyboard with Documents-to-Go Pro as a poor substitute of a real laptop, I can assure you that I would've loved to have a netbook a few years back so I could take notes in my humanity classes.

You can already browse the web, do a little word processing, listen to music, and watch youtube on some smartphones and pdas.

Exactly my point. This is why I have decided to do away with netbooks altogether. It's not anyone's fault, really...people just expect netbooks to do more than what they're intended for, to replace PDA's.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: IlllI
lol but stu you only recommend macs, so its no wonder you dont like them

Once Windows 7 officially comes out, then I might take a second look at netbooks, but for now they are just too limited. Besides I could hackintosh a netbook and there you go, problem solved.

 

[Babbles]

I recently bought myself a Asus eee netbook. I also have a Blackberry Storm (i.e. a smart phone).

In my particular situation I am starting a MBA program and I wanted a small laptop (i.e. netbook) to take to campus to do school things. I currently have a 17" notebook which is entirely too big and heavy to carry around for daily use. I wanted to spend the least amount of money as reasonably possible. I did not want a "full fledge" new laptop since I have one that is maybe two years old.

This netbook can do so very much more than a smart phone. To begin with I need to be able to run MS Office and while many (if not most) smart phones can open up DOC, Excel, PPT, and PDF files with some minor modifications available, none of the smart phones can run the full MS Office suite with the various add-ins I like to use.

As others mentioned, looking at a little screen on a smart phone does get tiresome - albeit so does looking at a 10" screen, however it is significantly easier on the eyes than a phone.

My sister in-law is going to graduate school as well, and she too elected to get an Asus eee for school use for just about the same reasons I mentioned. As such I would wager there is - or will be - a pretty strong demand for university students.

I think the netbook hit a great niche (especially in this economy) and frankly I can't comprehend why some people can not understand the usefulness of these products.

 

[GaryJohnson]

Originally posted by: Parasitic
...people just expect netbooks to do more than what they're intended for, to replace PDA's.

"People" huh? who exactly? and what are they expecting it to do that it doesn't?

If there's someone here who expected their netbook to play Crisis please raise your hand.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: GaryJohnson

Originally posted by: Parasitic
...people just expect netbooks to do more than what they're intended for, to replace PDA's.

"People" huh? who exactly? and what are they expecting it to do that it doesn't?

If there's someone here who expected their netbook to play Crisis please raise your hand.

There was an article that I read not too long ago (wish I could find the link, but I think that Gizmodo had it as well) that basically said exactly what Parasitic just did. You are buying something that looks like a laptop, only smaller. Whether or not it is concious, you still might expect it to perform roughly like a laptop, but it won't. When surfing the web, sure it will, and I guess when using a word document and what not, but you will quickly run into the wall that is the 1.6GHz Atom compared to a dual core intel or AMD mobile CPU.

I know the difference between a laptop and a netbook, as do you and plenty others, but even I had problem reconciling what I knew with what I was experiencing. I knew that the keyboard would be cramped, with a crummy trackpad, a hard to read (for me) screen, and slow performance, and I still get let down everytime I put my hands on one.

If a person can afford it, the Acer TimeLine could be interesting. Actual dual core CPU, 13" screen, light weight, good battery life, and an actual keyboard.

 

[theeedude]

For me, if it doesn't fit in my jeans' front pocket, the next size limit is fitting in my backpack. So if it's not a phone sized device, I am going straight for a 15.4 inch notebook, since I want comfortable to use keyboard and big screen for easy reading and working. The net books don't really appeal to me. I could see for a woman one that fits in her handbag may have advantages, but for me it's either backpack or no backpack, and if I am carrying a backpack anyways, size is not an issue as long as it fits.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Babbles
I recently bought myself a Asus eee netbook. I also have a Blackberry Storm (i.e. a smart phone).

In my particular situation I am starting a MBA program and I wanted a small laptop (i.e. netbook) to take to campus to do school things. I currently have a 17" notebook which is entirely too big and heavy to carry around for daily use. I wanted to spend the least amount of money as reasonably possible. I did not want a "full fledge" new laptop since I have one that is maybe two years old.

This netbook can do so very much more than a smart phone. To begin with I need to be able to run MS Office and while many (if not most) smart phones can open up DOC, Excel, PPT, and PDF files with some minor modifications available, none of the smart phones can run the full MS Office suite with the various add-ins I like to use.

As others mentioned, looking at a little screen on a smart phone does get tiresome - albeit so does looking at a 10" screen, however it is significantly easier on the eyes than a phone.

My sister in-law is going to graduate school as well, and she too elected to get an Asus eee for school use for just about the same reasons I mentioned. As such I would wager there is - or will be - a pretty strong demand for university students.

I think the netbook hit a great niche (especially in this economy) and frankly I can't comprehend why some people can not understand the usefulness of these products.

So for $400, you get a 10" netbook that weighs 3.5 pounds and 5 hours of battery life. For $550, you can get a dual core (turion) laptop with 4GB of ram, a 14" screen, decent integrated graphics, weighs 4.5-5 pounds, and gets around 4 hours of battery life.
The larger sized netbooks just seem too close to laptops, without anywhere near the functionality.
The smaller sized ones reduce their functionality so much that phones and pdas can accomplish most of what they can in a far more mobile form factor.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Babbles
I recently bought myself a Asus eee netbook. I also have a Blackberry Storm (i.e. a smart phone).

In my particular situation I am starting a MBA program and I wanted a small laptop (i.e. netbook) to take to campus to do school things. I currently have a 17" notebook which is entirely too big and heavy to carry around for daily use. I wanted to spend the least amount of money as reasonably possible. I did not want a "full fledge" new laptop since I have one that is maybe two years old.

This netbook can do so very much more than a smart phone. To begin with I need to be able to run MS Office and while many (if not most) smart phones can open up DOC, Excel, PPT, and PDF files with some minor modifications available, none of the smart phones can run the full MS Office suite with the various add-ins I like to use.

As others mentioned, looking at a little screen on a smart phone does get tiresome - albeit so does looking at a 10" screen, however it is significantly easier on the eyes than a phone.

My sister in-law is going to graduate school as well, and she too elected to get an Asus eee for school use for just about the same reasons I mentioned. As such I would wager there is - or will be - a pretty strong demand for university students.

I think the netbook hit a great niche (especially in this economy) and frankly I can't comprehend why some people can not understand the usefulness of these products.

So for $400, you get a 10" netbook that weighs 3.5 pounds and 5 hours of battery life. For $550, you can get a dual core (turion) laptop with 4GB of ram, a 14" screen, decent integrated graphics, weighs 4.5-5 pounds, and gets around 4 hours of battery life.
The larger sized netbooks just seem too close to laptops, without anywhere near the functionality.
The smaller sized ones reduce their functionality so much that phones and pdas can accomplish most of what they can in a far more mobile form factor.

I feel that you basically ignored everything I wrote.

You are trying to sell me something that I have no need for, i.e. dual core and 4GB of RAM. Those types of components are beyond the scope of a netbook. Fundamentally, though, I spent $250 on it - not the $400 that you wrongfully assume. Granted I got a good deal on it, but there are tons of them on the market at the $300 price point. As such you are talking about adding on a further 100% of the cost to get components (i.e. the CPU and RAM) that are not needed. Netbooks are supposed to effectively be cheap laptops to get you online and operate run-of-the-mill apps. There is no need whatsoever for a dual core process and 4GB of RAM to run Offfice and surf the net.

Budget, ever hear of it? Going from $250 to $550 is a helluva a big jump - and again for components that are not even needed. Why would you even suggest this??!!

Again, netbooks can do so much more than phones and PDAs, that I think it is just intellectually dishonest to even compare them. Netbooks are indeed laptops in every extent; they are not some over-glorified PDA that you seem to think they are. Today's netbooks probably are probably quite similar to the performance of "normal" notebooks a few years ago. As such were all notebooks in the not-so-distant past nothing more than PDA alternatives??

People are going to buy netbooks as supplements to pre-existing notebooks and/or PCs. As such people are not going to want to shell out significant amount of money for a supplemental device.

 

[hans007]

i have a tmobile g1 and i browse on it, but i can still see why you'd use a netbook.

especially the new netbooks with 11.6" screens 1366x768 and amd or nano cpus, are more or less just light cheap notebooks. i mean a netbook with a 11.6" screen is basically just a cheap subnote, and functionally is equivalent to say an ibm x61s that costs twice as much.

if anything i love netbooks. it makes it so you dont have t ogo blow 3 times as much money for a sony viao z505 or whatever expensive 3 pounders were your only choice previously. i mean an athon 1.2 ghz , nano 1.3 ghz, etc are plenty for most tasks. i think the atom based books are a little TOO limited, but the nano and amd netbooks seem to really just be "cheap subnotes" at this point since they are plenty fast to say browse youtube, and do real work. if you just want to surf the web, honestly i'd be fine with a bigger keybaord and 10" screen attachment to my G!1 compared to an atom book (and i'm sure arm is coming up with basically that in the non atom even cheaper than intel atom netbook market)

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: yh125d

Originally posted by: Zap
I have an MSI Wind netbook and a Palm Treo 750 smart phone.
...
Actually I might get rid of it anyways, in favor of some future model with 11-12" screen that is higher resolution (what, 1366x768?). Give me one of those with a dual core Atom, 5+ hour battery and Ion in a 3 pound package and I'm sold!

Would http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2318741&enterthread=y interest you maybe?

Actually, this might be closer to what I imagine:

Originally posted by: TheStu
If a person can afford it, the Acer TimeLine could be interesting. Actual dual core CPU, 13" screen, light weight, good battery life, and an actual keyboard.

So I haven't seen one for sale that was a dual core, but you can get the Core Solo version for around $600 that is 3.5 pounds, 13.3" 1366x768, 320GB HDD, 4GB RAM and Intel 4500 HD graphics (FWIW). Oh yeah... 8 hour battery life! Okay, based on how stated battery life is measured as honestly as contrast level on LCD screens, closer to 7 hours. Still, this "fixes" all the shortcomings of the MSI Wind and introduces only 0.2 pounds (over my 6 cell Wind). Better CPU power, more RAM/HDD, bigger and higher resolution screen, longer battery life, better graphics.

Hmmm, I guess what I really wanted was a subnotebook without the cost of the subnotebook. I remember at my last job the executives got Dell Latitude 410/420/430 subnotebooks and I thought those were pretty sweet... but really expensive!

Originally posted by: Fox5
You can already browse the web, do a little word processing, listen to music, and watch youtube on some smartphones and pdas.
...
However, for web browsing, my PDA was tolerable, especially if you just need to read some articles, post on anandtech, or check email. I could watch youtube videos or movies too.

I would seriously find a new hobby if I was stuck using my Palm Treo for web browsing, watching movies and word processing. No, no and hell no! Except for the botched placement of the Fn/CTRL keys, the MSI Wind keyboard is pretty nice to touch-type on. I've tried the Eee PC 900 series and those keyboards sucked hard! For everyone who thinks that netbooks aren't any better to type on than a smartphone, I'd say try a better/newer netbook like the MSI Wind, Samsungs, Lenovo or new Eee PC 1000 series. Those keyboards are a LOT better than any other netbook keyboard you've tried.

Originally posted by: Babbles
Today's netbooks probably are probably quite similar to the performance of "normal" notebooks a few years ago.

That is true. My wife told me earlier today that she wished netbooks were available when she went to grad school. At the time she had an old Dell Inspiron Pentium III with 14.1" screen and 256MB RAM weighing around 5 pounds, cost $1500 and lasted no more than 2 hours on battery, maybe less. All it was used for was pretty much note taking. A netbook (okay, one of the netbooks with the better keyboards) would really have been perfect.

Originally posted by: Babbles
People are going to buy netbooks as supplements to pre-existing notebooks and/or PCs. As such people are not going to want to shell out significant amount of money for a supplemental device.

Another insightful comment. I have a netbook. I also have a smartphone and a 15.4" (somewhat)gaming notebook with discrete graphics. I love using the netbook when I'm parked on the couch in front of the TV. In fact I really haven't used my notebook for around 8 months.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: Fox5
What role do netbooks really fulfill that modern, high-end phones can't? Netbooks seem to sell for around $400, and for that price you can get yourself a nice phone capable of browsing the Internet.

Portable devices (ex: phone) suck browsing the internet compared to a netbook.

Also, with a netbook, I can take it to class and do work on it (ex: take notes). It's basically the most portable option in that area...phones certainly can't do it.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: Fox5
What role do netbooks really fulfill that modern, high-end phones can't? Netbooks seem to sell for around $400, and for that price you can get yourself a nice phone capable of browsing the Internet.

Portable devices (ex: phone) suck browsing the internet compared to a netbook.

Also, with a netbook, I can take it to class and do work on it (ex: take notes). It's basically the most portable option in that area...phones certainly can't do it.

I used to use an original Palm Pilot to take notes in high school, with it I could graffiti faster than i could write or type and had a 98% successful entry rate. If it wasn't for the fact that the iphone doesn't support graffiti, I would be able to do that again.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Fox5
What role do netbooks really fulfill that modern, high-end phones can't?

I don't really see where a netbook fits in.

I'm a skeptic and felt the same way as you, but...

I asked everyone I know if they owned a netbook... Nope, not one of them! Sooo...

I decided (reluctantly) to buy a netbook. I made sure I got it at a local B&M with a liberal return policy.

I hoped this thing wouldn't work out! I wanted it to fail my needs!

As it turned out, after tweaking this thing around the edges, I'm loving it... damn it...

I'm an advanced user, so maybe that's the qualifier. If I didn't know anything about computers and everything about cell phones, maybe it would be the other way around.

This netty is a Asus Eee PC 1000HD ($249) upgraded to 2 GB RAM ($20). I'm dual-booting it with XP SP3 and Linux Mint 7. I've spent a couple of weeks scaling-down Linux Mint 7 to fit the Eee PC architecture and this thing rawks! I'm thinking about releasing a distro Linux Mint 7 Eee PC or whatever.

Anyway, believe me on this...

There is NO way that any cell phone could match this thing for functionality! It's apples and oranges...

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Zap
PORTABILITY
[...] Haven't tried with the MSI Wind, but with the slightly smaller 9" Eee PC 900 series a typical cargo pocket in cargo pants/shorts will fit the netbook. Seriously, we've tried it. [...]

This is one of those things where you have to see-it-to-believe-it...

LoL!

Nobody has ever defined 'netbook', 'ultraportable', et cetera.

I prefer to call my Eee PC a Legtop!

Seriously, I sit in a chair, cross my legs and nestle this thing between my left calf and right thigh - it's a perfect fit. I don't have to worry about it falling off my lap, or someone bumping into me.

And, it will fit in a (large) Bible jacket, so you can sneak it into church. Flip the display and the only one that knows is you and God.

No way you can do this with a Laptop or a cell phone!

 

[frostedflakes]

I browse on my smartphone some, but it's not very usable IMO. 320x240 resolution is barely adequate, and with a 400MHz ARM it can be pretty slow. Something with a large 800x480 or 640x480 screen and faster processor would be more pleasant to browse on, but this is hard to find on a phone, and the few that have these features are very expensive.