Why Nazis are coming out now.

[J.Wilkins]

This thread is dedicated to the facts about how Nazism is not what it used to be and how Neo Nazis are not actually Nazis for the most part but just as bad.

The target has changed for the most part, you won't see the Nazis being very anti-semitic but the movement of the neo nazis has been ongoing since the skinhead era in the 1970's.

The main difference is that while the actual Nazis embraced Muslims and their leaders as well as their freedom to hold their religion as a means to an end today's Neo Nazis hold those people as their enemy.

I've been around for quite a while and visited many a forum during this time and on one forum I found something that was peculiarly different, Nazis and Muslims were in agreement on most things but hated each other.

That got me thinking, what is it about these two groups that they have in common that is so great that it can unite them? The answer is, of course, the hatred for others.

Next up I noted that evangelicals and Mormons were pretty much with the Neo Nazis and the Muslims too and at this point... I turned off my computer and went to bed.

Now, as most people know there are two groups that get supported by Russians either through social media ads or through being fed fake ads (the antifa ads from Poland are retarded, if you have fallen for them then you need to go fuck yourself in the skull with a toilet brush soaked in sulphuric acid) or through monetary support for campaigns and these two groups are calling anyone who isn't a fucking extremist idiot either a Nazi or a Communist.

Now, we need to handle this, there needs to be some way to stop this from happening because while free speech cannot be regulated beyond reasonable means we have an entire generation of fucktards who are chuffed at the fake bullshit they read every single day.

SO I'm asking, how do we change this progress of everyone being either so far to the right or to the left that all the sane people are seen as one side or the other from other side?

In this forum people call me a communist, marxist, conservaterrorist or even a fascist and meanwhile, my ideas are liberal to the very core and not one person can ever point out any idea that I've expressed that isn't. Critiquing the US means I hate America, agreeing with US policy in some instances means I'm a traitor to the UK...

How can we ever have a worthwhile discussion when no one is willing?

 

[Mayne]

at the end of the day nothing really matters.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Just for you JW.

 

[UNCjigga]

The main difference is that while the actual Nazis embraced Muslims and their leaders as well as their freedom to hold their religion as a means to an end today's Neo Nazis hold those people as their enemy.

I've been around for quite a while and visited many a forum during this time and on one forum I found something that was peculiarly different, Nazis and Muslims were in agreement on most things but hated each other.

That got me thinking, what is it about these two groups that they have in common that is so great that it can unite them? The answer is, of course, the hatred for others.

You reminded me of this story: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/us/neo-nazi-roommate-murder.html

They may use different dogma and teachings, but the result is the same cancer on their brains.

 

[maddie]

This thread is dedicated to the facts about how Nazism is not what it used to be and how Neo Nazis are not actually Nazis for the most part but just as bad.
......................................................................................

How can we ever have a worthwhile discussion when no one is willing?

You can't. Some things are impossible to be rushed and we're in the middle of a great reordering. Best to talk with your heart to those who mean something to you and try to ride it out. All things pass.

 

[Moonbeam]

at the end of the day nothing really matters.

You have reached the point where you might be able to grasp the ultimate truth.

Two monks walked through the jungle talking about the nature of reality. One said to the other, everything is an illusion and nothing is real. A rhino appeared ahead of them on the trail and charged them. The monk contemplating that everything is a delusion stood there convinced that might be the truth while the teller of that truth climbed a tree. The monk laying battered and broken on the ground looked up in the tree and said, I thought you said everything is an illusion. The first monk responded, my running up the tree was an illusion too. The end of the day is happens when one awakens in the now.

 

[Indus]

You wanna discuss ideas? Stop supporting Trump and conservaterrorists. That's a start.

 

[Jaskalas]

You wanna discuss ideas? Stop supporting Trump and conservaterrorists. That's a start.

Labels, sweeping generalizations. How many people otherwise open to a new deal, would instead hear you and harden themselves for the conflict your words promise? A majority is not made by telling 63 million voters that they are terrorists. That rhetoric, the meaning it carries, and the intention behind it are what would maintain a marginalized Democratic party. Where is the big tent that was promised?

No room for traitors? What traitors? I see the rural ruination of America. I see sweeping changes in labor leaving millions behind to choke on dust. I see the failed promise of trickle down bringing untold pain unto the masses. This misery has left people wallowing in despair. In 2008 they chased a promise. In 2016 they were no better off, and continued to chase promises. Someone has to listen to them and reach out a helping hand. Someone has to promise them the real deal, a new deal.

And from top to bottom we have to mean it. We have to campaign and rally behind it. A unifying message to welcome all Americans.

 

[brandonbull]

You wanna discuss ideas? Stop supporting Trump and conservaterrorists. That's a start.

I think cracking down on Liberals and their SJW Nazis would be a even better start.

 

[SNC]

This thread is dedicated to the facts about how Nazism is not what it used to be and how Neo Nazis are not actually Nazis for the most part but just as bad.

The target has changed for the most part, you won't see the Nazis being very anti-semitic but the movement of the neo nazis has been ongoing since the skinhead era in the 1970's.

The main difference is that while the actual Nazis embraced Muslims and their leaders as well as their freedom to hold their religion as a means to an end today's Neo Nazis hold those people as their enemy.

I've been around for quite a while and visited many a forum during this time and on one forum I found something that was peculiarly different, Nazis and Muslims were in agreement on most things but hated each other.

That got me thinking, what is it about these two groups that they have in common that is so great that it can unite them? The answer is, of course, the hatred for others.

Next up I noted that evangelicals and Mormons were pretty much with the Neo Nazis and the Muslims too and at this point... I turned off my computer and went to bed.

Now, as most people know there are two groups that get supported by Russians either through social media ads or through being fed fake ads (the antifa ads from Poland are retarded, if you have fallen for them then you need to go fuck yourself in the skull with a toilet brush soaked in sulphuric acid) or through monetary support for campaigns and these two groups are calling anyone who isn't a fucking extremist idiot either a Nazi or a Communist.

Now, we need to handle this, there needs to be some way to stop this from happening because while free speech cannot be regulated beyond reasonable means we have an entire generation of fucktards who are chuffed at the fake bullshit they read every single day.

SO I'm asking, how do we change this progress of everyone being either so far to the right or to the left that all the sane people are seen as one side or the other from other side?

In this forum people call me a communist, marxist, conservaterrorist or even a fascist and meanwhile, my ideas are liberal to the very core and not one person can ever point out any idea that I've expressed that isn't. Critiquing the US means I hate America, agreeing with US policy in some instances means I'm a traitor to the UK...

How can we ever have a worthwhile discussion when no one is willing?

As someone who has tried to have a conversation you you and failed, you might just be the best person to answer that question. When you hear someone say something do you automatically start to formulate your response to a key word you heard in the comment, or do you take in the entirety of the comment and take into account the person's background, the manner in which it was said, or what it was said in response to? There is no way to have a conversation about things people differ on unless and until both parties are willing to entertain the possibility they are wrong. Ask yourself how many times have you responded to a comment in a particular manner just because of who said it? Have you ever agreed with someone who was the polar opposite of you on anything? Can you say with any amount of certainty that you could agree with a Trump supporter on 4 issues, any issues not of a political matter but any issues like what blueberries taste like, the second amendment is an actual thing like it or not.... Based on our last "conversation" I already know the answer to that question. My answer to your question of 'how' is we can't. Now what?


Case in point.. How can a conservation of any substance come about when this is the norm?

Well of course you don't, you are not actually human.

Your intelligence is left out of your skull and you have become a person that don't know the difference between individual freedoms and Nazism, this is EXACTLY what you just stated so it's not me insulting you, it's you explaining just how fucking stupid you are.

 

[Indus]

Labels, sweeping generalizations. How many people otherwise open to a new deal, would instead hear you and harden themselves for the conflict your words promise? A majority is not made by telling 63 million voters that they are terrorists. That rhetoric, the meaning it carries, and the intention behind it are what would maintain a marginalized Democratic party. Where is the big tent that was promised?

No room for traitors? What traitors? I see the rural ruination of America. I see sweeping changes in labor leaving millions behind to choke on dust. I see the failed promise of trickle down bringing untold pain unto the masses. This misery has left people wallowing in despair. In 2008 they chased a promise. In 2016 they were no better off, and continued to chase promises. Someone has to listen to them and reach out a helping hand. Someone has to promise them the real deal, a new deal.

And from top to bottom we have to mean it. We have to campaign and rally behind it. A unifying message to welcome all Americans.

You don't get it. We're not Americans anymore. The country is too divided to stay together as one with right wingers fanning the flames since Obama won the election. Obama may be gone now but it seems their only solution is to have more hate of anyone not themselves.

With this much hate and division, you couldn't keep a small country town together much less a country.

 

[J.Wilkins]

You wanna discuss ideas? Stop supporting Trump and conservaterrorists. That's a start.

I've never done that but I'm to the right of the uttermost extreme left wing and that means I'm a Nazi to you.

That is the problem expressed, it doesn't seem to be possible for some people to understand what liberalism is and why it works, they see one extreme and go to the other and everyone is the enemy of everyone who is fighting so hard to be more extremist left or extremist right than anyone else.

 

[J.Wilkins]

You reminded me of this story: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/us/neo-nazi-roommate-murder.html

They may use different dogma and teachings, but the result is the same cancer on their brains.

I fully agree, but the problem is that we can't deal with this when everyone is insisting that reality isn't real.

The way to fight extremism is liberalism, not to become an extremist on the other side.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Just for you JW.

That you are not capable of analysation or any form or higher thought process is not in question so this thread is not for you.

 

[J.Wilkins]

You can't. Some things are impossible to be rushed and we're in the middle of a great reordering. Best to talk with your heart to those who mean something to you and try to ride it out. All things pass.

I refuse to accept this idea. I get it and I've been through it before but this time around it's extremism vs extremism and whoever wins is going to fuck it up.

I'm not OK with that.

 

[maddie]

I refuse to accept this idea. I get it and I've been through it before but this time around it's extremism vs extremism and whoever wins is going to fuck it up.

I'm not OK with that.

I understand.

For myself, I grew up and still live in, a multi-religious [all christian faiths, muslim, hindu], multi-racial [white European, African, Chinese, Indian, Middle Eastern] and multi-cultural country and these violent tendencies generally don't surface. Live and let live and even if you think the other is an arsehole, let him be. The few times any strife happens is someone goading groups, either for power or a monetary advantage.

So, if you will fight, fight those who control and direct the narrative. Most here don't matter.

 

[HomerJS]

Labels, sweeping generalizations. How many people otherwise open to a new deal, would instead hear you and harden themselves for the conflict your words promise? A majority is not made by telling 63 million voters that they are terrorists. That rhetoric, the meaning it carries, and the intention behind it are what would maintain a marginalized Democratic party. Where is the big tent that was promised?

No room for traitors? What traitors? I see the rural ruination of America. I see sweeping changes in labor leaving millions behind to choke on dust. I see the failed promise of trickle down bringing untold pain unto the masses. This misery has left people wallowing in despair. In 2008 they chased a promise. In 2016 they were no better off, and continued to chase promises. Someone has to listen to them and reach out a helping hand. Someone has to promise them the real deal, a new deal.

And from top to bottom we have to mean it. We have to campaign and rally behind it. A unifying message to welcome all Americans.

I have an idea, remember all the Trump supporters who wouldn't care if Trump shot someone on the street? How about we shoot them and work with who remains?

 

[J.Wilkins]

I understand.

For myself, I grew up and still live in, a multi-religious [all christian faiths, muslim, hindu], multi-racial [white European, African, Chinese, Indian, Middle Eastern] and multi-cultural country and these violent tendencies generally don't surface. Live and let live and even if you think the other is an arsehole, let him be. The few times any strife happens is someone goading groups, either for power or a monetary advantage.

So, if you will fight, fight those who control and direct the narrative. Most here don't matter.

I'm sorry but that is just not good enough for me. I've raised two children and have a grandchild growing up and all I see is how badly things are going.

It's not OK. My life is almost to an end anyway and THIS is what I'm forced to leave them with? I'll fight it for as long as I live and I do have some hope that liberalism will prevail, it has for a long time and people have to understand that it is absolutely vital to create a functioning society.

I think I like you though... how rare.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Labels, sweeping generalizations. How many people otherwise open to a new deal, would instead hear you and harden themselves for the conflict your words promise? A majority is not made by telling 63 million voters that they are terrorists. That rhetoric, the meaning it carries, and the intention behind it are what would maintain a marginalized Democratic party. Where is the big tent that was promised?

No room for traitors? What traitors? I see the rural ruination of America. I see sweeping changes in labor leaving millions behind to choke on dust. I see the failed promise of trickle down bringing untold pain unto the masses. This misery has left people wallowing in despair. In 2008 they chased a promise. In 2016 they were no better off, and continued to chase promises. Someone has to listen to them and reach out a helping hand. Someone has to promise them the real deal, a new deal.

And from top to bottom we have to mean it. We have to campaign and rally behind it. A unifying message to welcome all Americans.

In other words, enough of this pull yourself up by the bootstraps personal responsibility bullshit, we want a handout. Goddamn liberals.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I think cracking down on Liberals and their SJW Nazis would be a even better start.

Working hard at being a good little fascist lickspittle. Keep up the good work. You and the other waterboys are doing important work for the movement.

 

[woolfe9998]

This thread is dedicated to the facts about how Nazism is not what it used to be and how Neo Nazis are not actually Nazis for the most part but just as bad.

The target has changed for the most part, you won't see the Nazis being very anti-semitic but the movement of the neo nazis has been ongoing since the skinhead era in the 1970's.

The main difference is that while the actual Nazis embraced Muslims and their leaders as well as their freedom to hold their religion as a means to an end today's Neo Nazis hold those people as their enemy.

I've been around for quite a while and visited many a forum during this time and on one forum I found something that was peculiarly different, Nazis and Muslims were in agreement on most things but hated each other.

That got me thinking, what is it about these two groups that they have in common that is so great that it can unite them? The answer is, of course, the hatred for others.

Next up I noted that evangelicals and Mormons were pretty much with the Neo Nazis and the Muslims too and at this point... I turned off my computer and went to bed.

Now, as most people know there are two groups that get supported by Russians either through social media ads or through being fed fake ads (the antifa ads from Poland are retarded, if you have fallen for them then you need to go fuck yourself in the skull with a toilet brush soaked in sulphuric acid) or through monetary support for campaigns and these two groups are calling anyone who isn't a fucking extremist idiot either a Nazi or a Communist.

Now, we need to handle this, there needs to be some way to stop this from happening because while free speech cannot be regulated beyond reasonable means we have an entire generation of fucktards who are chuffed at the fake bullshit they read every single day.

SO I'm asking, how do we change this progress of everyone being either so far to the right or to the left that all the sane people are seen as one side or the other from other side?

In this forum people call me a communist, marxist, conservaterrorist or even a fascist and meanwhile, my ideas are liberal to the very core and not one person can ever point out any idea that I've expressed that isn't. Critiquing the US means I hate America, agreeing with US policy in some instances means I'm a traitor to the UK...

How can we ever have a worthwhile discussion when no one is willing?

That's a big bag of complaints. This is a bit of a problem, as some of these complaints may be more valid than others. So I agree with you about rising political extremism on both sides, and that a side effect of this is that anyone not at either extreme is immediately labeled by the extremist as being at the opposite extreme as they are. One feature of extremism is chronic "middle blindness." It's an easy shorthand for identifying extremists. In any event, I've never read your posts as indicating that you are anything but a liberal. I further appreciate the fact that you seem to understand the differences between being "on the left" and being liberal. Not many people seem to comprehend that.

On the other hand, I DO see anti-US bias in your postings. They do not all come across as constructive "critiques." Everyone around here gets around to criticizing the US at one time or another, but for some reason, it's you who has the reputation of being anti-US. It's because you appear to have a bias which I'm not sure you're consciously aware of.

Going back to the issue of extremism, you're asking what can be done about it. You first need to know what is principally causing it. It seems to have been trending for at least the past 20 years, both sides moving farther and farther apart. In my opinion, the principle reason for this is the very medium in which we now converse: the internet. Confirmation bias is causing people to seek out confirming information, which now exists in high quantity and is available instantly. Without shutting down the internet or severely regulating speech, I don't see any solution to this.

Looking back through history, only one thing seems to cause extremism to subside: catastrophic events which are linked to extremist behavior. The vast majority of the German people supported the Nazi regime for the bulk of the time they were in power. It started to wane a bit in the last 2 years when the war wasn't going well for them. After they lost the war and the atrocities of the regime became more public, the German people became very anti-fascist, very quickly.

It's kind of sad that something terrible is probably going to have to happen before we ever see anything get any better, but honestly, I don't see any other way that this trend reverses. There just doesn't seem to be any reason for it to. People harden their beliefs by accessing confirming opinions because they want to, and I don't see anything changing that.

One final word: you might consider insulting people around here a bit less. It may be why you're getting called a conservaterrorist, Nazi, communist, etc. I frequently cross party lines around here - on police shootings, political correctness, and several other issues. But I never really get called a conservative or a Nazi. So I think that not being 100% to the left isn't the only factor in this.

 

[J.Wilkins]

That's a big bag of complaints. This is a bit of a problem, as some of these complaints may be more valid than others. So I agree with you about rising political extremism on both sides, and that a side effect of this is that anyone not at either extreme is immediately labeled by the extremist as being at the opposite extreme as they are. One feature of extremism is chronic "middle blindness." It's an easy shorthand for identifying extremists. In any event, I've never read your posts as indicating that you are anything but a liberal. I further appreciate the fact that you seem to understand the differences between being "on the left" and being liberal. Not many people seem to comprehend that.

On the other hand, I DO see anti-US bias in your postings. They do not all come across as constructive "critiques." Everyone around here gets around to criticizing the US at one time or another, but for some reason, it's you who has the reputation of being anti-US. It's because you appear to have a bias which I'm not sure you're consciously aware of.

Going back to the issue of extremism, you're asking what can be done about it. You first need to know what is principally causing it. It seems to have been trending for at least the past 20 years, both sides moving farther and farther apart. In my opinion, the principle reason for this is the very medium in which we now converse: the internet. Confirmation bias is causing people to seek out confirming information, which now exists in high quantity and is available instantly. Without shutting down the internet or severely regulating speech, I don't see any solution to this.

Looking back through history, only one thing seems to cause extremism to subside: catastrophic events which are linked to extremist behavior. The vast majority of the German people supported the Nazi regime for the bulk of the time they were in power. It started to wane a bit in the last 2 years when the war wasn't going well for them. After they lost the war and the atrocities of the regime became more public, the German people became very anti-fascist, very quickly.

It's kind of sad that something terrible is probably going to have to happen before we ever see anything get any better, but honestly, I don't see any other way that this trend reverses. There just doesn't seem to be any reason for it to. People harden their beliefs by accessing confirming opinions because they want to, and I don't see anything changing that.

One final word: you might consider insulting people around here a bit less. It may be why you're getting called a conservaterrorist, Nazi, communist, etc. I frequently cross party lines around here - on police shootings, political correctness, and several other issues. But I never really get called a conservative or a Nazi. So I think that not being 100% to the left isn't the only factor in this.

Sure you see anti-US bias, others see you as anti-American and who is to say who is right, can't critique a nation or it's policies without having some fucktard get on your back about how you suddenly hate it... So ... hypocrite, do you agree with everything or is there such a thing as legitimate criticism?

What if you disagree with that criticism, does that mean anything? What if others disagree with your criticisms? Does that mean anything? Are both you and me anti-US, are neither of us and who is the fucktard you have put in place to determine what kind of criticism is OK and what isn't?

Just stop it with that bullshit, it's just something you use to ignore criticism you don't like and you are actively being an extremist by not accepting my replies on how criticising the spread of demonstrably false history is just bullshit.

I get it, you have always thought that the US is über alles and when someone points out that you murdered hundreds of thousands of people by dropping nukes rather than saving people or that your nation was founded by puritans who fled the UK because they couldn't oppress people then it's hard to take but truth is truth no matter how much it hurts.

That is where all this bullshit between you and I started and until you get over that you'll just continue with this complete bullshit version of me being anti-US for providing demostrable facts and you feeling bad about me doing so.

There are ways to end extremism through information and education, the question is why this has been given up on completely.

And don't worry, my observations were regarding the US and the UK, I've presented our problems in numerous posts but apparently you missed that I have no problem condemning the UK for our stupidity along with the US.

 

[Jaskalas]

Why Nazis are coming out now.

I have an idea, remember all the Trump supporters who wouldn't care if Trump shot someone on the street? How about we shoot them and work with who remains?

Homer, you forgot the train cars.

J.Wilkins, looks like you can ask them yourself.

 

[nickqt]

Labels, sweeping generalizations. How many people otherwise open to a new deal, would instead hear you and harden themselves for the conflict your words promise? A majority is not made by telling 63 million voters that they are terrorists. That rhetoric, the meaning it carries, and the intention behind it are what would maintain a marginalized Democratic party. Where is the big tent that was promised?

No room for traitors? What traitors? I see the rural ruination of America. I see sweeping changes in labor leaving millions behind to choke on dust. I see the failed promise of trickle down bringing untold pain unto the masses. This misery has left people wallowing in despair. In 2008 they chased a promise. In 2016 they were no better off, and continued to chase promises. Someone has to listen to them and reach out a helping hand. Someone has to promise them the real deal, a new deal.

And from top to bottom we have to mean it. We have to campaign and rally behind it. A unifying message to welcome all Americans.

Yes, the people who have been voting to destroy the country out of hatred and ignorance need a place at the table...now, more than ever.

 

[nickqt]

I think cracking down on Liberals and their SJW Nazis would be a even better start.

The best part, right-wing authoritarian, is that thinking that you're sick burning libruuuuuuuuls, you let your true nature out.

You and your ilk are the fucking Nazis in this re-telling of right-wing nationalism, as everyone with a functioning brain is able to see.

Please, keep on outing yourself because it's safe to out yourself because Strongman Trump will protect you, scumbag.