Why must schools make us study these things?

[trmiv]

Sorry about the rant, but I gotta get this off my chest.

Check this page out, it has my next assignment for my technology and civilization class on it. I'm wondering if my prof could have picked two topics that were of less interest to me.

I'm an MIS major, why am I spending hours writing essays on Muslim contributions to science or the Great stirrup controversy!!! I have a midterm tomorrow in my Data communications class (something directly related to my major, something I care about), but instead of studying for that I am sitting here reading about the development of the heavy plow in Medievel times, and the textile industy in the middle ages because this class is required general education and they want to turn out "well rounded" students.


Screw well rounded, I am an MIS major, but by the time I graduate I will have taken 24 units in MIS classes, and 100 units in general and business education classes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's 39 "general education" courses that have nothing to do with MIS, and 8 MIS courses!!!! 8 freaking MIS classes before they turn me loose in the IT world!! No wonder universities aren't turning out competent MIS workers, we are spending most of our time taking crap we don't need than learning advanced MIS topics.

Why do schools do this stuff?

 

[GoldenBear]

I agree..especially in college for you to do such crap when it's completely unrelated to what you plan on doing.

 

[poop]

Uh, it is your school. I am a Comp Eng. major, and I am only required to take 24 hours of non-engineering and non-science courses.

If you count CE and EE courses alone, they make up well over half of my credit hours.

 

[trmiv]

To add to my little rant. I go to San Jose State University, right in the heart of the Silicon Valley. You would think a school in this area could go a little heavier on technical stuff. I mean, we have 90% of the companies that are players in the IT world within a 10 minute drive.

I should be OK when I graduate though (even though half my time here has been in completely ridiculous classes), because I liked computers before I started school, and I have learned a lot of the advanced stuff on my own. But, you would be surprised the number of MIS majors that don't know the first thing about computers, and the California State University program is not going to help them much.

 

[Moonbeam]

God that stuff is facinating. Geez, spread before you is a world of interlocking events, discoveries, ideas, and stories that weave together to make our modern world and us. Did you ever see one of those Berke Connections. You have a chance to get a glimpse of the grandure of civilization and human achievement and you snivle and whine like somebody turned off your favorite cartoon. You are empty vessels. Allow yourselves to be filled. Everything depends on connections. It is a staggering event to meet a man of learning.

 

[trmiv]

<< God that stuff is facinating. Geez, spread before you is a world of interlocking events, discoveries, ideas, and stories that weave together to make our modern world and us. Did you ever see one of those Berke Connections. You have a chance to get a glimpse of the grandure of civilization and human achievement and you snivle and whine like somebody turned off your favorite cartoon. You are empty vessels. Allow yourselves to be filled. Everything depends on connections. It is a staggering event to meet a man of learning. >>



So...Is all that stuff going to help me get an IT job at Cisco, Sun, HP, or AMD when I graduate? I didn't think so..... If I want to expand my knowledge I'll do it on my own time, and with topics that I choose. And I do, when I have free time I find myself exploring topics I never thought of, but they are of my choosing, and not because of some requirement. I hate being force fed information because the school board feels that makes me more &quot;well rounded,&quot; and meanwhile I'm paying $3000 a year for a &quot;degree in MIS.&quot; Yea right....

 

[Comp10]

<< Why do schools do this stuff? >>

I used to think it was a complete waste of time too, that is until I took a general education class that made me realize I was in the wrong major. The relatively small amount of extra time you spend in general education classes is a small price to pay to make sure that you are in the right major. Certainly much better than finding out 10 years down the road that you hate your major and wish you studied something else. And besides, a little extra knowledge never killed anyone.

 

[axelfox]

Do you have to take that GE class? There isn't another one that fufills the same requirement?

 

[trmiv]

Some of the other classes that filled this requirement were:
Culture and Conflict
20th Century Creative Art
Dance in World Culture
Contemporary Theater
Film, Literature and Culture
History of Women in Europe
Legacy of Asia
Jazz in America
Philosophy of Aisa
War and Peace
Hispanic American Culture
Concepts of Children
World Art and Culture
Alternative Cinema
Chinese Culture and Politics


The only three that fit my schedule were the one I'm in (Technology and Civilization), Jazz in America, and Legacy of Asia. I really wanted Jazz in America, because I like music and thought that would at least be interesting, but of course that class was filled. Legacy of Asia did not interest me at all, so I went with this one. It's more than this though, there have been a lot of classes like this, many more than the MIS classes that I am supposed to be going to school for.

 

[Moonbeam]

Quit school and study on your own.

 

[trmiv]

<< Quit school and study on your own. >>



I only have nine classes left. Don't think I haven't considered it. I really wish I would have taken the Cisco Cert/MCSE route instead of the university route, but I'm almost done so I might as well finish. In this valley you have to have some slip of official looking paper with your name on it. I have applied for tons of help desk jobs, but saying I have gained a lot of computer knowledge on my own doesn't seem to carry the weight with most people doing hiring as BS in MIS does. (or CCNA, CCNE, MCSE, etc.).

 

[whateverdude]

sorry, but im sick of hearing this. I used to hear this all the time from younger people I went to school with who just couldnt appreciate the value of just getting an all-around education.

if you just wanted to learn cisco routers and mcse, why didnt you go to a vo-tech school?

university is where someone goes to become EDUCATED. learning about other cultures, history and science will help you to better understand the world you'll be working in for the rest of your life. maybe when you grow up a little, you'll understand that.

sorry, im not bagging on you personally, but it seems as though not enough college students these days appreciate the priviledge of going to college. its just a way to make more money. an education is more valuable than any amount of money you'll ever earn. if you dont ever realize that, then you have wasted your money.

 

[PakG1]

There is something you can get out of those courses if you just search for it. Or maybe it'll just hit you. Those things do sound useless and it will continue to be unless you open up a closed mind and look at the courses objectively.

And be glad that you CAN attend a college, many CAN'T.

Although your general course requirements DO seem a little extreme and overweighted.

And correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know, MIS people don't need to know about computers. They're job is to design and implement a system by leading a team of people who do the grunt work. MIS people just see the bigger overall picture. No?

 

[imhotepmp]

<< university is where someone goes to become EDUCATED. learning about other cultures, history and science will help you to better understand >>



agreed and well said. but i think there should me more choice in what classes you take in order to get well rounded. Some classes I'v taken I absolutely despised(botany!) and will never have no use for. Do i really care about the secondary growth of plants. Fvck no! But do I care about the coupling of electron transport with oxidative phosphorylation in the mitochondria? AN absolute yes! umm....whats my point again?

sorry if i dont make sense, Im taking a study break for my midterm tomm morn and my brain is getting fried.

yay biochem !

 

[maleficent]

If you are forced to take courses that you would normally ignore, whole new ideas are revealed. Maybe you'll end up working in a foreign country or with someone from a foreign country. You'll have a better understanding of the world and be less likely to be thought of as an ignorant American.

Also, the more types of classes you take, the less likely references will go right over your head. I know from experience that you'll begin to notice these references in everything from television to conversations. For some reason we are all capable of ignoring what we are not familiar with as long as we understand basically what is happening. As you meet people with different backgrounds and experiences you will be glad of any common reference point you can find.


Look for the connections between things and ideas. It's amazing what is revealed.

 

[kw3i]

business students who dont know anything about computers except how to break them become MIS majors, not all but most, at least thats how it was at my school. they just did the MIS major because they knew it would help them get a job, im not assuming this, i had numerous talks with man of them about it: )

 

[Missus]

Because they can...

You did pay for the class, but you are wanting the grade to go with it...

 

[trmiv]

My problem isn't with the fact that they want to make &quot;well rounded&quot; students, my problem is with the fact that they try to make &quot;well rounded&quot; students yet sacrifice my major education to do so. The fact that I'm an MIS major yet take only 8 MIS classes, compared to almost 40 non MIS classes my entire college career is absurd. I would like to see more of a balance between the courses. I feel that this school is neglecting their location, and not taking advantage of the fact that we are sitiuated right in the heart of the Silicon Valley.





<< And correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know, MIS people don't need to know about computers. They're job is to design and implement a system by leading a team of people who do the grunt work. MIS people just see the bigger overall picture. No? >>



MIS is just a label, there are concentrations within MIS like Systems Analysis, Data Communications (networking), and Database Administration.



<< business students who dont know anything about computers except how to break them become MIS majors, not all but most, at least thats how it was at my school. they just did the MIS major because they knew it would help them get a job, im not assuming this, i had numerous talks with man of them about it >>



That's true with a lot of MIS majors unfortunetly. I'm amazed by the amount of my classmates that I talk to that have never opened a computer, and would have to we walked through finding the start menu in Windows. I just can't believe that. I try to talk computers with fellow MIS majors, and I get blank stares.

 

[vi edit]

For plain old MIS and CIS people, you learn very little *useful* computer related things at school. Anything *important* you'll pick up on your own time whether it be on the net, in a magazine, in a book, or on the job.

College is just there to get you familiar with the various areas. It isn't to teach you how to do a specific job. It's to help you figure out what field you want to specialize in. Taking a class or two of C++ programming does not make you a programmer. Taking a class or two of database structures and logic does not make you a DB admin.

Once you get out in a 9-5 job 40 hours a week you'll actually appreciate those &quot;worthless&quot; classes. Those worthless classes will give you knowledge that you never would have thought interesting otherwise.

I went to a liberal arts school with a BS in CS. I graduated with 125 credits, only 45 of which were actual CS classes. Of those 45, 8 of them were intership hours. It was my internship classes that proved to the far most useful and &quot;learning&quot; of the bunch.

If you really want to learn, take an internship. It will be the key to your success. It will teach you valuable job skills and will set you up for the future because you have experience to put on your resume.

Enjoy those non-computer classes. You've got another 40+ years to get familar with computers.

 

[trmiv]

<< If you really want to learn, take an internship. It will be the key to your success. It will teach you valuable job skills and will set you up for the future because you have experience to put on your resume. >>



I'm trying. I've already applied for 3 in the past two months, no nice. But, there is an intership/co-op fair on March 8th, I'm going to try to line something up. Should be a lot of good companies there.

 

[StormRider]

Well, this is college after all. It's a place for higher learning. If you only want to learn about what's relevant to getting a job then maybe a vocational school is more to your liking.

I have a BS and MS in Electrical Engineering and I remember actually liking my non-math and non-engineering classes. It was a refreshing change of pace. During my graduate studies I actually wished that I could take a few of those kind of classes again.

Plus, those classes actually had girls in them! Most of my math, engineering and science classes had very few girls in them.

As for your major, if you really like the subject you are studying then it shouldn't be a problem learning the stuff. I had an interest in computers when I was young so I learned a lot of stuff on my own (6502 assembly language etc).

Besides, in most jobs, you really don't explicitly use the stuff you are taught in college. I never had to do integration by hand or prove that a solution exists to a problem. The stuff you need to know for work, you actually learn on the job.

What the college experience was good for was to teach you how to *learn*. If you are good in that, then you should do well in any job -- because you can adapt to any situation your job might need.

And being &quot;forced&quot; to take classes you aren't interested in helps open up your mind. In some cases, you find out that you actually like the subject. At the very least, it broadens your perspective. Like the earlier post mentioned, you learn about other cultures, histories etc so you will better understand the world around you. The world is getting smaller all the time and you'll have a better chance to succeed if you understand the people around you.

 

[trmiv]

<< Once you get out in a 9-5 job 40 hours a week you'll actually appreciate those &quot;worthless&quot; classes. Those worthless classes will give you knowledge that you never would have thought interesting otherwise. >>



I've already been in a 9-5 40 hours a week job. I was working full time and going to school full time, but I cut back on hours (30 a week) to finish school quickly. I didn't say I was an 18 year old college newbie.

 

[Azraele]

Schools require to take certain courses due to educational standards set by the states and government. They require well-rounded education for one reason, they want you to have a base knowledge of many topics to if for some reason your primary topic choice fails, then you will have knowledge to fall back on. Be thankful you're educated. Can you imagine trying to get around in life without being able to read??? Try and picture it.
Also, the reason you have to learn historical things such as textiles in the middle ages is because history is who we are as a species. What's the adage? &quot;Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it&quot;
Learning history is about learning how we developed the way we did. In knowing this, we can possibly avoid making mistakes we've made before.

AS for your assignments, I'm sorry you're swamped. College is like that. The only advice I can offer is to set up a schedule to better manage your time so you don't feel quite so cramped.

Good luck in your studies.

 

[axelfox]

then why don't you just go to a vocational or trade school?

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Nice rant, now go do your homework and tell us about what technology in the middle ages you learned about. That is after all more interesting than hearing you complain about your homework.