Why Linux is not (yet) Ready for the Desktop, 2015 edition

[Ketchup]

I've heard this argument made before and it maybe true. The issue I have with this stance is what happens when you do a search for a problem you are having with your distro or you want to learn how to do something?
9 times out of 10 you don't get responses that say "Oh just use the gui and type this in and that should work.". No, you get responses like "Just use the terminal and copy and paste this in.".

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ferramroberto/extra
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install qisoburn

And most of the time the guy posting it doesn't even say what it does so you're just blindly hoping that it works. You are correct that updates and software install is now gui based but don't me started on how out of date most of the programs are in the Software Manager.

Personally, this is a negative for me. Much of my work is done on an OS command-line. When I get home and do something on a computer, give me the gui!

 

[poofyhairguy]

I've heard this argument made before and it maybe true. The issue I have with this stance is what happens when you do a search for a problem you are having with your distro or you want to learn how to do something?
9 times out of 10 you don't get responses that say "Oh just use the gui and type this in and that should work.". No, you get responses like "Just use the terminal and copy and paste this in.".

I work in software support for a living, and I WISH I could do this all the time. People suck, and walking someone through a GUI sucks even harder.

"Click on the X. No not that X the other one. Now click the checkbox. It is the the bottom right corner of the window. No not that window the other window, etc."

vs

"Hey copy and paste this one command that a person way smarter than you put together and everything will be magically fixed!!"

Anybody can copy and paste, but some people can't get through a GUI they haven't seen to save their lives.

 

[Mushkins]

My mother can't competently navigate facebook, but she can use Ubuntu, and keep it updated. To translate, she can't use a service that's made for the dumbest person in the world, but she can maintain her o/s. That's more than you say for low level Windows users. They get a popup to "update" Flash, and end up with their machines pwned.

Can we maybe have this discussion without broad, condescending stereotypes?

Windows has an auto-update feature for core OS features and security patches. It's not the fault of the OS if some crappy third party app like Flash has a poorly written autoupdater popup laced with crapware, that's on the app distributor and can *just* as easily be done in a Linux environment.

Those condescending "linux nerd" attitudes aren't exactly doing much to make people want to adopt Linux, it just makes it *more* intimidating to someone who doesn't know or understand it when all they hear about it is somebody acting superior because of what computer operating system they choose to use.

 

[lxskllr]

Can we maybe have this discussion without broad, condescending stereotypes?

Windows has an auto-update feature for core OS features and security patches. It's not the fault of the OS if some crappy third party app like Flash has a poorly written autoupdater popup laced with crapware, that's on the app distributor and can *just* as easily be done in a Linux environment.

Those condescending "linux nerd" attitudes aren't exactly doing much to make people want to adopt Linux, it just makes it *more* intimidating to someone who doesn't know or understand it when all they hear about it is somebody acting superior because of what computer operating system they choose to use.

I don't know what you're talking about. If anything I wrote can be construed as an "attitude", it regards facebook, and facebook can go to hell. It's a blight on the internet.

The major point I was getting at, is you don't have to go any farther than your graphical update manager to update *everything* on the system, third party or otherwise. If the system doesn't say it needs to updated, it doesn't matter. It's so easy my mother(81 years old) can do it, and she can barely turn the machine on.

 

[Elixer]

The major point I was getting at, is you don't have to go any farther than your graphical update manager to update *everything* on the system, third party or otherwise. If the system doesn't say it needs to updated, it doesn't matter. It's so easy my mother(81 years old) can do it, and she can barely turn the machine on.

Well, not *everything*, since if you install stuff that isn't in your package manager, then you will not get an update, but, I get the point.
That is also why it seems that windows 10 will have something like this as well.

On the same token though, it is also possible that an update would screw something up, like if you are using binary blobs for whatever, and there is a kernel update, it is highly possible that nothing will work after the update, so you are stuck looking at a black screen (or command prompt), and/or no net connection (or...).

It is getting better on the linux end though.
I tried to switch someone over to linux a few months back (a teacher), and while they did like how they could customize the desktop, the main problem for them was that they are required to run certain programs, and those only worked in IE, all other browsers, it would screw up. Same with other programs they need to run, it is still a windows world, and trying to talk to them through WINE (or a VM) was too complex.
I don't see a good solution for people like this, they are forced to use windows, or install a VM to get the programs they need to run.

 

[lxskllr]

On the same token though, it is also possible that an update would screw something up, like if you are using binary blobs for whatever, and there is a kernel update, it is highly possible that nothing will work after the update, so you are stuck looking at a black screen (or command prompt), and/or no net connection (or...).

Perhaps... Libre drivers work, and are fully supported. I've never had an issue with them breaking on update. For someone like my mother, it's irresponsible to set them up with proprietary blobs if you aren't available to fix them.

For others... It's a judgment call. If you're running a GNU/Linux gaming rig, you're probably misguided, but you're probably also a tweaker. It's a solvable problem.

For those in between... It unfortunately happens sometimes. I've never had a problem, but they do sometimes occur. Generally, the risks are minimal if you're running some kind of lts release. If you're running a testing/experimental distro... you get what you get. Something like that is inappropriate for "Joe user".

 

[Maximilian]

I found the complete opposite to be true. Linux gave me way more control to do things exactly the way I wanted, and there are tons of helpful forums and communities that show you how to accomplish pretty much anything.

Not to knock the linux communities but a lot of the time questions go unanswered or the answer consists of "You want to do X? No do Y instead", sometimes they're really helpful though.

I've heard this argument made before and it maybe true. The issue I have with this stance is what happens when you do a search for a problem you are having with your distro or you want to learn how to do something?
9 times out of 10 you don't get responses that say "Oh just use the gui and type this in and that should work.". No, you get responses like "Just use the terminal and copy and paste this in.".

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ferramroberto/extra
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install qisoburn

And most of the time the guy posting it doesn't even say what it does so you're just blindly hoping that it works. You are correct that updates and software install is now gui based but don't me started on how out of date most of the programs are in the Software Manager.

Yup this is an issue for newbies for two reasons:

- Copying and pasting commands when you have no idea what they do can result in bad things...

- The nature of the terminal means it has no undo functionality. You tried to fix an issue by changing something via terminal, it didn't work, how do you undo the thing that you changed? With a GUI you just drag the slider back to where it was or whatever. With the command line you're boned, even if it was as simple as executing the same command again with the default state as an argument, what was the default state? Who knows... your system is no longer in the default state it was in before you attempted to troubleshoot it. More troubleshooting attempts may change more stuff and mess things up more, worse still your tinkering may prevent an actual solution from working.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I just installed Ubuntu. Now i know why i like windows so much.

 

[Ramses]

Mint is good as it gets IMO. As was said anyone can use it daily, as a production desktop, right out of the box assuming it find all your hardware. Which is probably will these days.

I bought Redhat 5 from Electronics Boutique, if that tells you anything, a good ways back. Linux is SO much more desktop-able now. It's not perfect, but it's really really good if you go with a modern distro. I ran the last Mint version for a good year for work and pleasure last year, it was great. Occasional annoyance from some work-specific software that wasn't linux-able, but VM's worked fine when need be for that.

What still put me back in windows was a bunch of new hardware and wanting to play games in a known environment game-wise. I'm on 8.1 now and honestly it's great. I'd like to go back to Linux, but much like upgrading my CPU, I can't find justification beyond the emotional desire. Take that for what it's worth.

I never thought Linux was supposed to be as completely user friendly as windows. But, people screw windows up more than a couple clicks will fix pretty regularly, or more accurately they screw up some software installed on it. Either way, I don't consider fixing or making problems any better on Linux or Windows in this day and age. I find it easier to find good support for Linux online. Otherwise, just different.

Other than profitability, it's not a bad thing if Linux stays on the geek-side imo. Every idiot with a mouse should not be gifted Linux, much like they are not granted a long lived, fast, reliable Windows of any type just for showing up. If you can't keep up don't step up.

 

[ninaholic37]

Other than profitability, it's not a bad thing if Linux stays on the geek-side imo. Every idiot with a mouse should not be gifted Linux, much like they are not granted a long lived, fast, reliable Windows of any type just for showing up. If you can't keep up don't step up.

:thumbsup:

 

[Ramses]

That probably came off harsher than I intended, but the sentiment is not untrue.