Why just biological life?

[Paratus]

Here you go OP, how's a natural nuclear reactor grab you. That complex enough?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor


Besides, in a way, radios did evolve on this planet. It just required hydrogen, a shit load of time, and us to evolve first.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

The short answer is "Because biological life self-replicates faster then nature can destroy it. Radios don't."

While it's certainly possible a transistor might happen to form by chance, the probability of it then being destroyed by chance is astronomically higher. I'd say it's almost a certainty that it will be destroyed instantly. And once that happens, you're back at square one.

Biological life will use that time between it's creation and destruction to make additional copies of itself. Even if it doesn't evolve at all, it will still persist. That puts it way ahead in the game of survival.

 

[moonbogg]

Life only seems amazing because it is here right now. If something crazy happened that destroyed the entire universe, then none of this would matter and it would just seem like a temporary fluke. I mean something like if dark matter was unstable and one day decayed into something dangerous and caused the whole universe to change into a hazy mist of radiation. That would make us seem pretty fluke-ish.

 

[Moonbeam]

http://news.discovery.com/space/are-we-living-in-a-computer-simulation-2-121216.htm

 

[alkemyst]

How does a storm equate to a battery on other planets? What simple electronics are on other planets?

jesus, like I said; time for you to pick up a higher than high school science book.

Other posters have already linked to some items.

Go back to trolling other posts of mine.

/checkmate.

 

[AViking]

There are things that exist on other planets that can act like simple electronics....batteries and the like.

Nature's batteries rely on biology. What biological batteries have we found on other planets? What batteries are you specifically referring to? What have we found on other planets that act like simply electronics and batteries?

 

[Braznor]

We don't get to define what life is. Life simply defines itself. It is possible that life on planets similar to Earth may have even the same characteristics like us. The laws of the universe are the same everywhere and given the length of the timescale of our own evolution, it won't be uncommon to think that life elsewhere might have a chemistry similar to us.

Also a self replicating radio is absurd to think in terms of evolution. It might be possible, but less likely than a blob of self replicating matter with a genetic code database as its core.

 

[Braznor]

Nature's batteries rely on biology. What biological batteries have we found on other planets? What batteries are you specifically referring to? What have we found on other planets that act like simply electronics and batteries?

Aren't stars technically gigantic batteries?

A star uses its own gravitational pull to make elements in its core undergo fusion, thus constantly dissipating energy until it runs out.

 

[Braznor]

A pulsar (portmanteau of pulsating star) is a highly magnetized, rotating neutron star that emits a beam of electromagnetic radiation. This radiation can only be observed when the beam of emission is pointing toward the Earth, much the way a lighthouse can only be seen when the light is pointed in the direction of an observer, and is responsible for the pulsed appearance of emission. Neutron stars are very dense, and have short, regular rotational periods. This produces a very precise interval between pulses that range from roughly milliseconds to seconds for an individual pulsar.

The precise periods of pulsars makes them useful tools. Observations of a pulsar in a binary neutron star system were used to indirectly confirm the existence of gravitational radiation. The first extrasolar planets were discovered around a pulsar, PSR B1257+12. Certain types of pulsars rival atomic clocks in their accuracy in keeping time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsar

 

[AViking]

Aren't stars technically gigantic batteries?

A star uses its own gravitational pull to make elements in its core undergo fusion, thus constantly dissipating energy until it runs out.

If we were to count the sun as a battery then any fuel source is a battery. A fire, the ocean, etc. I'm not sure that's correct but I'm open for correction.

When I think of nature's batteries I think of the potato experiment and some of the stuff I've read about bacteria.

Alkymyst said that there are things on other planets and I'm really curious what he's referring to. Seeing a storm on Mars or Jupiter does not equate to a battery.

What simply electronics?

 

[Braznor]

If we were to count the sun as a battery then any fuel source is a battery. A fire, the ocean, etc. I'm not sure that's correct but I'm open for correction.

When I think of nature's batteries I think of the potato experiment and some of the stuff I've read about bacteria.

Alkymyst said that there are things on other planets and I'm really curious what he's referring to. Seeing a storm on Mars or Jupiter does not equate to a battery.

What simply electronics?

For an ocean to be a battery, it must have sufficient mass to undergo gravitational implosion and thus fusion.

An ocean cannot be a battery unless it is so huge in mass it begins to collapse internally and the collapse discharges energy through fusion. Of course, there is a limit to fusion too, but that point is technically moot since it will take plenty of time for a star to reach that limit.

Interestingly the higher the mass of a star, the shorter is its stellar life.

 

[moonbogg]

I don't think life is real. Its just all stuff doing stuff.

 

[Braznor]

I wonder if stars are the natural equivalent to the Large Hadron Collider.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star

The composition of the superdense matter in the core remains uncertain. One model describes the core as superfluid neutron-degenerate matter (mostly neutrons, with some protons and electrons). More exotic forms of matter are possible, including degenerate strange matter (containing strange quarks in addition to up and down quarks), matter containing high-energy pions and kaons in addition to neutrons,[4] or ultra-dense quark-degenerate matter.

 

[Braznor]

For an ocean to be a battery, it must have sufficient mass to undergo gravitational implosion and thus fusion.

An ocean cannot be a battery unless it is so huge in mass it begins to collapse internally and the collapse discharges energy through fusion. Of course, there is a limit to fusion too, but that point is technically moot since it will take plenty of time for a star to reach that limit.

Interestingly the higher the mass of a star, the shorter is its stellar life.

Again I must correct myself. An ocean can be considered a battery source as there are machines which can harvest energy off oceanic waves.

 

[alkemyst]

Nature's batteries rely on biology. What biological batteries have we found on other planets? What batteries are you specifically referring to? What have we found on other planets that act like simply electronics and batteries?

Batteries rely on chemistry. Your argument is absurd.

 

[AViking]

Alky either answer the question, have a discussion, and participate in this forum or go post somewhere else. Stop wasting my time.

 

[alkemyst]

Alky either answer the question, have a discussion, and participate in this forum or go post somewhere else. Stop wasting my time.

I already explained were you need to start.

Pretty much anything I'd bring up you'd reject or not understand.

However others have already answered.

Do you know what a battery comprises of?

 

[Howard]

Batteries rely on chemistry. Your argument is absurd.

Electric batteries rely on chemistry. There are lots of ways to store energy.

 

[alkemyst]

Electric batteries rely on chemistry. There are lots of ways to store energy.

We were talking things like 'electronics'.

That will almost always be chemistry in nature.

 

[irishScott]

So aren't we basically arguing semantics at this point?

Radio transmitters have been around almost since the universe began, and they transmit in ways we can understand. This is why we have radio telescopes.

Likewise the universe has many ways of storing energy.



Now if the question is why haven't we discovered Energizer brand AA batteries and Zenith brand transistor radios, well that's just a stupid question.

But on the premise that no question is stupid, the answer is that technology and electronics as we know them are actually more complicated than life from a universal perspective. That is, it is far more likely for life to naturally occur than for transistor radios to naturally occur, which is due to the laws of physics.

 

[moonbogg]

So aren't we basically arguing semantics at this point?

Radio transmitters have been around almost since the universe began, and they transmit in ways we can understand. This is why we have radio telescopes.

Likewise the universe has many ways of storing energy.



Now if the question is why haven't we discovered Energizer brand AA batteries and Zenith brand transistor radios, well that's just a stupid question.

But on the premise that no question is stupid, the answer is that technology and electronics as we know them are actually more complicated than life from a universal perspective. That is, it is far more likely for life to naturally occur than for transistor radios to naturally occur, which is due to the laws of physics.

BUZZ! WRONG! Radios are naturally occurring. There was once nothing but dust and radiation, now there are radios and video cards and CPUs. God didn't make them, so they occurred naturally.

EDIT: There are two possibilities, Scott. Either god created, or he didn't. If he didn't, then there is only nature. Everything is naturally occurring. That means damn everything. You don't get to slide humans in the middle somewhere and take the magic away. Radios are naturally occurring. There is no god, radios didn't exist, then they did. That's naturally occurring. You are not separate from nature. I am talking to a dust man right now. You are nothing but dust and a bunch of other crap that occurred naturally, and so am I. We made radios, we are naturally occurring = radios are naturally occurring.

 

[piasabird]

When you look at the distance between earth and the sun and the planets of our solar system. Then look at the distance between two stars in the same galaxy (Milky Way) and then see the distance between glaxies and the immense quantity of galaxies in the Universe. The real problem is not finding a planet that supports life but the sheer minute possibility of 2 races of people from different planets even finding each other. It is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Look at the things that make life possible on earth. Must have a planet with a hot core. Must have an atmosphere with oxygen, Hydrogen and water and hydrocarbons. The temperature must be within a fairly finite range to support life. A moon may be needed to keep us alive. Then how many planets that circle stars are going to satisfy all of those requirements? I dont know the likliness of this possibility and we cant even reach all of our own planets yet. The chance of finding or reaching another planet around another son that will support our kind of life is not that good.

The vastness of the universe prohibits finding intelligence life without a giant leap in technology.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And you have it exactly backwards. The laws of physics obey the universe.

Something with potential. Yay!

I have questions beginning with why are you right and he wrong? Then in unambiguous terms what constitutes the Universe? Then the same for physical laws. Semanitcs do count after all.

Note I am not disagreeing, or agreeing for that matter. For intellectual purposes I've discarded my own notions. I'm curious about your reasoning process.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

OP, you need to unambigously define life.

 

[irishScott]

BUZZ! WRONG! Radios are naturally occurring. There was once nothing but dust and radiation, now there are radios and video cards and CPUs. God didn't make them, so they occurred naturally.

EDIT: There are two possibilities, Scott. Either god created, or he didn't. If he didn't, then there is only nature. Everything is naturally occurring. That means damn everything. You don't get to slide humans in the middle somewhere and take the magic away. Radios are naturally occurring. There is no god, radios didn't exist, then they did. That's naturally occurring. You are not separate from nature. I am talking to a dust man right now. You are nothing but dust and a bunch of other crap that occurred naturally, and so am I. We made radios, we are naturally occurring = radios are naturally occurring.

Semantics. You know what I meant, and it wasn't any of this. You don't get to redefine common terminology.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/naturally+occurring

Adj. 1. naturally occurring - existing by nature and without artificial aid; "one of the 93 naturally occurring chemical elements"

It is far more likely for organic molecules to form and fuse into lifeforms without sentient intervention than it is for inorganic molecules to form and fuse into transistor radios without sentient intervention.