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Why isn't Marijuana legal?

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In some places like Korea they sell a kind of THC tablet. GI's use to abuse it all the time.

When you buy weed you do not know if it has fertilizer in it or some kind of harmful pesticide or if it is a hybrid product with intensified harmful effects. In fact there has not been sufficient study of what the effects of the natural product are. There is a lot of misinformation by the government about Marijuana. It is not like there are that many good public studies with large populations. If it was legal, perhaps with improved development a more mellow product can be developed with fewer side effects.
 
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Id like to know how many places Marijuana is actually legal, other than in small quantities in Dutch shops.

Why pick on the US?

Decriminalized here in Western Australia.

You can have an oz on ya and its only a fine, no conviction. And two plants in you're back yard is only a fine.

Retarded new conservative goverment is reversing the laws though. :evil:
 
Originally posted by: destrekor
chess9, there is a problem with the logic you've shown. Not an attack, mind you, just want to show why it doesn't make sense.

First, just because marijuana smoke may be harmful, automatically makes it right to be illegal? Huh? So why are cigarettes legal? Nicotine is also a far more addictive drug. Alcohol is destructive to the liver, yet remains legal. Why? These two drugs have been so readily accepted by the world, due to their usage through the time of civilization, that making them illegal would drive the world into chaos. Look at what happened with the Prohibition.
Yet, marijuana never reached that same level of social acceptance. Sure, it has been used forever in tribal circles and other civilizations around the world throughout history, but in more modern civilization, just never reached the same level. That, and an extremely effective campaign to demonize the drug and the culture of the users made it easy to bring everyone to the same side - "weed is evil!". Whether or not the cotton industry and other giants had a hand in making it illegal doesn't really matter. The fact that it remains illegal is illogical when compared to what IS legal. Some kind of precedence has been set, yet it's not followed at all. That fact that alcohol was made illegal and re-legalized doesn't add any weight. If nicotine products were ever made illegal and then re-legalized, at that time marijuana would likely be a shoe-in to be made legal following precedence.

Second, studies showing lung damage aren't revealing the entire truth. While I have no doubt that lung damage is possible through normal smoking methods of marijuana, it is doubtful the participants of those studies have smoked only marijuana their entire life. Many smokers also consume tobacco in some form. With the people of the culture I've known, small cigar products are common, and usually smoked. That, and many wrap their marijuana in tobacco-leaf shells, and when holding in the tobacco smoke in the lungs at the same time, for the same duration, as marijuana, surely that could have an effect. Whether this is the case, who knows.

But for another point, marijuana is also very beneficial as a medical drug. First, marijuana can be vaporized instead of smoking, which greatly decreases, if done right, to the point of nearly 0%, the negative components of marijuana smoke. Second, with it being nearly pure THC and cannibidiol, the positive effects are magnified. THC has been found, through research, to potentially have anti-tumor properties. On the other hand, while Nicotine is not carcinogenic, it does act as a pro-tumor agent, providing an environment ripe for carcinogens to work against the body. THC acts as an anti-tumor agent, attacking tumors, in hormone-controlled organs. Article (Page 1), Article (Page 2). (these were screen-captures on an article, from a database that requires authentication from universities, and accessed these through my school's subscription).

Additionally, marijuana has already been completely linked to relief from painful medical conditions, even in patients that do not respond to prescription medications. Why keep patients in pain, when there is a readily-available product that can do it for them?
And how many cancer patients, who have either with suggestion from their doctor, or on their own, take up marijuana use? Specifically, how many of these patients who have used marijuana, eventually fully-recover from whatever cancer they had? In every case, the medical treatment they received is proclaimed as what cured them. I am willing to bet, based on the above-linked article, that there are patients that recovered solely due to THC use. They make have took up marijuana use for help with nausea or simply relief, but it may have played a major role in curing them of cancer. We don't know this, because no one is doing any real research on this potential link. Why? Because the drug is illegal and being given grants to perform research with illegal drugs is essentially impossible. This country needs to start looking at the medical community and seeing if certain drugs actually have beneficial uses. But politics are so heavily involved in marijuana staying illegal, it'll be a long time before any happens with that.
But as more and more states continue to make marijuana de-criminalized and/or legal for medical usage, it'll gain more and more momentum in the Federal government. I can see, one day in the future, it will be made either de-criminalized for fully legal.
Hopefully the latter, because we need to waste less taxpayer money on keeping 'criminals' of marijuana use locked up.

I never said making drugs illegal was proper. I argued the opposite. Please read my post a few above yours.

I'm also fine with people taking it for medicinal purposes. Legitimate medicinal purposes.

However, I don't think it's right for people to abuse their bodies. Sure, the bodies are theirs, but I must pay for their stupidity. The emergency rooms are full of people who are injured or sick because they got drunk, smoked too much dope, or drove like an idiot. Let's not encourage them.... Who's paying those emergency room bills? Who will pick up the tab for the medical care for the 40 year old guy with emphysema from smoking either cigarettes or MJ or both? When he's on SSD, who do you think pays? Santa Claus?

I'm not surprised so many people want to smoke dope or let others smoke dope. My generation is mostly to blame for these attitudes. 🙂

This is a practical issue that needs practical solution and correct thinking. Enabling this kind of behavior is not in the overall best interest of most humans.

I also don't care whether some psychologists think MJ is addicting or NOT. That's a mostly irrelevant issue. MJ causes a host of social problems. It ain't good for society, to put it in terms everyone here will understand.

-Robert

 
Originally posted by: chess9

I never said making drugs illegal was proper. I argued the opposite. Please read my post a few above yours.

I'm also fine with people taking it for medicinal purposes. Legitimate medicinal purposes.

However, I don't think it's right for people to abuse their bodies. Sure, the bodies are theirs, but I must pay for their stupidity. The emergency rooms are full of people who are injured or sick because they got drunk, smoked too much dope, or drove like an idiot. Let's not encourage them.... Who's paying those emergency room bills? Who will pick up the tab for the medical care for the 40 year old guy with emphysema from smoking either cigarettes or MJ or both? When he's on SSD, who do you think pays? Santa Claus?

I'm not surprised so many people want to smoke dope or let others smoke dope. My generation is mostly to blame for these attitudes. 🙂

This is a practical issue that needs practical solution and correct thinking. Enabling this kind of behavior is not in the overall best interest of most humans.

I also don't care whether some psychologists think MJ is addicting or NOT. That's a mostly irrelevant issue. MJ causes a host of social problems. It ain't good for society, to put it in terms everyone here will understand.

-Robert

But in this case you are saying that by not making it illegal, we are encouraging people? Marijuana being legal is the natural order of things, its illegality is a relatively recent measure. Currently it being illegal is almost no deterrent whatsoever, I would say that almost 100% of the people I know smoke pot occasionally.

I would be interested to hear what social problems you think marijuana causes. I've found that most of the negative things people attribute to it come from the government, and when it comes to drugs the government lies... and lies horribly.
 
Originally posted by: piasabird
In some places like Korea they sell a kind of THC tablet. GI's use to abuse it all the time.

When you buy weed you do not know if it has fertilizer in it or some kind of harmful pesticide or if it is a hybrid product with intensified harmful effects. In fact there has not been sufficient study of what the effects of the natural product are. There is a lot of misinformation by the government about Marijuana. It is not like there are that many good public studies with large populations. If it was legal, perhaps with improved development a more mellow product can be developed with fewer side effects.

I would hope that legalized cannabis would be required to meet government purity standards and that the government would also require producers to provide potency information (percentage of THC) on the package.
 
Originally posted by: shira
Originally posted by: piasabird
In some places like Korea they sell a kind of THC tablet. GI's use to abuse it all the time.

When you buy weed you do not know if it has fertilizer in it or some kind of harmful pesticide or if it is a hybrid product with intensified harmful effects. In fact there has not been sufficient study of what the effects of the natural product are. There is a lot of misinformation by the government about Marijuana. It is not like there are that many good public studies with large populations. If it was legal, perhaps with improved development a more mellow product can be developed with fewer side effects.

I would hope that legalized cannabis would be required to meet government purity standards and that the government would also require producers to provide potency information (percentage of THC) on the package.

Wouldn't consumers demand that information without government enforcement? I would. Hypothetically speaking of course. 😀
 
I think pot smokers are called heads because the drug causes people to think. I don't know but I do know that thinking is dangerous to the state, especially one like our own which relies of people being brain dead.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think pot smokers are called heads because the drug causes people to think. I don't know but I do know that thinking is dangerous to the state, especially one like our own which relies of people being brain dead.

Well when you subsidize something, you get more of it. 😉
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: chess9

I never said making drugs illegal was proper. I argued the opposite. Please read my post a few above yours.

I'm also fine with people taking it for medicinal purposes. Legitimate medicinal purposes.

However, I don't think it's right for people to abuse their bodies. Sure, the bodies are theirs, but I must pay for their stupidity. The emergency rooms are full of people who are injured or sick because they got drunk, smoked too much dope, or drove like an idiot. Let's not encourage them.... Who's paying those emergency room bills? Who will pick up the tab for the medical care for the 40 year old guy with emphysema from smoking either cigarettes or MJ or both? When he's on SSD, who do you think pays? Santa Claus?

I'm not surprised so many people want to smoke dope or let others smoke dope. My generation is mostly to blame for these attitudes. 🙂

This is a practical issue that needs practical solution and correct thinking. Enabling this kind of behavior is not in the overall best interest of most humans.

I also don't care whether some psychologists think MJ is addicting or NOT. That's a mostly irrelevant issue. MJ causes a host of social problems. It ain't good for society, to put it in terms everyone here will understand.

-Robert

But in this case you are saying that by not making it illegal, we are encouraging people? Marijuana being legal is the natural order of things, its illegality is a relatively recent measure. Currently it being illegal is almost no deterrent whatsoever, I would say that almost 100% of the people I know smoke pot occasionally.

I would be interested to hear what social problems you think marijuana causes. I've found that most of the negative things people attribute to it come from the government, and when it comes to drugs the government lies... and lies horribly.

No!!!! Good grief, where do you people get these ideas? I didn't say any such thing. I'm in favor of decriminalizing simple possession, but the government's policies and all public health policies should focus on discouraging use and encouraging prevention.

I've already mentioned the health issues. Drug use reduces school attendance and attention, causes auto accidents, inhibits relationships, and makes you stupid. Look, I was a college student in the 60's! Everyone smoked dope and I even tried it a few times. But, I see nothing but stupid behavior from drugs and alcohol (yes, that's redundant).

-Robert

 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think pot smokers are called heads because the drug causes people to think. I don't know but I do know that thinking is dangerous to the state, especially one like our own which relies of people being brain dead.

LOL, moonbeam. Smoking grass causes me to think I shouldn't smoke it.

-Robert
 
If I grow hops, malt, barley, and wheat in my backyard, ferment it, bottle it and sell it I'm a microbrewer. If I (or someone else) drink till I puke (or DIE from various reasons), that's a shame. But I'm legal 🙂
 
Originally posted by: chess9
Because you will get emphysema, heart disease, possibly diabetes, and cancer. By the age of 50 you will be sucking down 5 lpm of supplemental oxygen and will be facing probable death before the age of 70.

Should we also pay for you to eat 10 double Macs a day so you can weigh 400 pounds and look like a Sumo wrestler? Maybe you should be able to drive 200 mph on your Suzuki down the San Bernardino Freeway?

Just say no to drugs.

-Robert

There are plenty of other consumable items that will produce the same symptoms. Should we outlaw them as well? You want to live in a free society there are consequences. Those happen to be not everybody will live a healthy lifestyle.
 
I think it would be ok if it were legalized as long as it doesn't lead towards legalizing synthetic drugs which are currently illegal.
 
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: chess9
Because you will get emphysema, heart disease, possibly diabetes, and cancer. By the age of 50 you will be sucking down 5 lpm of supplemental oxygen and will be facing probable death before the age of 70.

-Robert
Can you prove any of this?

I can't prove a thing, but quite a few researchers have provided significant evidence of emphysema alone. It should be noted that those who smoke MJ inhale much more deeply than cigarette smokers, and they get signs of emphysema 20 years earlier than cigarette smokers.

"Marijuana is inhaled as extremely hot fumes to the peak inspiration and held for as long as possible before slow exhalation. This predisposes to greater damage to the lungs and makes marijuana smokers are more prone to bullous disease as compared to cigarette smokers."

Patients who smoke marijuana inhale more and hold their breath four times longer than cigarette smokers. It is the breathing manoeuvres of marijuana smokers that serve to increase the concentration and pulmonary deposition of inhaled particulate matter ? resulting in greater and more rapid lung destruction."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/re...08/01/080123104017.htm

And this from WebMD:

"In our clinic we have encountered several young marijuana smokers with no history of tobacco smoking or other significant risk factors who were diagnosed with lung cancer or other ... cancers. It's certainly reasonable to suspect there could be an association with the development of emphysema." Though more study is needed, he says, "for the recreational user with a full life expectancy, the potentially harmful effects of marijuana smoking are a legitimate concern."

http://www.webmd.com/news/2000...ar-marijuana-emphysema

These same, or similar, concerns were expressed about cigarette smoking in the 1950's and 1960's, but they were poo-pooed by people who knew much better, like tobacco farmers, cigarette smokers, and advertisers/manufacturers.

Lots of people are in the line to Darwin's Waiting Room.

-Robert


You can quote all the studies you want supporting side A, and someone who cares more then I do can some in and site studies supporting side B. none of that really matters as smoking weed is a personal choice just like cigs and drinking, people know its bad for them and CHOOSE to do it anyway. Government should not impose laws limiting personal choice/freedom regardless of how stupid they may be

 
Originally posted by: chess9

No!!!! Good grief, where do you people get these ideas? I didn't say any such thing. I'm in favor of decriminalizing simple possession, but the government's policies and all public health policies should focus on discouraging use and encouraging prevention.

I've already mentioned the health issues. Drug use reduces school attendance and attention, causes auto accidents, inhibits relationships, and makes you stupid. Look, I was a college student in the 60's! Everyone smoked dope and I even tried it a few times. But, I see nothing but stupid behavior from drugs and alcohol (yes, that's redundant).

-Robert

Your argument is basically that we should make things that are bad for us illegal to sell. To get even the slightest shred of support from me you will need to show how marijuana use in the home directly leads to negative consequences to people that are not engaged in that activity. Good luck.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: chess9
Because you will get emphysema, heart disease, possibly diabetes, and cancer. By the age of 50 you will be sucking down 5 lpm of supplemental oxygen and will be facing probable death before the age of 70.

Should we also pay for you to eat 10 double Macs a day so you can weigh 400 pounds and look like a Sumo wrestler? Maybe you should be able to drive 200 mph on your Suzuki down the San Bernardino Freeway?

Just say no to drugs.

-Robert

There are plenty of other consumable items that will produce the same symptoms. Should we outlaw them as well? You want to live in a free society there are consequences. Those happen to be not everybody will live a healthy lifestyle.
The "right wingers" ganging up on Chess9 on this issue is lulz.😉

Chess9 is a perfect example of what's wrong with the modern democrat party. Whether it is foi gras, trans fats, or MJ, THEY know what personal liberties and freedoms we need and don't need.

 
Originally posted by: alchemize

The right wingers ganging up on Chess9 on this issue is lulz.

Chess9 is a perfect example of what's wrong with the modern democrat party. Whether it is foi gras, trans fats, or MJ, THEY know what personal liberties and freedoms we need and don't need.

You do realize that the Democratic party has been far more amenable to the legalization of some drugs than the Republican party, right? A lot of the people who are ganging up on chess are in fact left wingers, such as myself. It's more like people ganging up on an authoritarian, why does it have to be left/right?
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
You do realize that the Democratic party has been far more amenable to the legalization of some drugs than the Republican party, right? A lot of the people who are ganging up on chess are in fact left wingers, such as myself. It's more like people ganging up on an authoritarian, why does it have to be left/right?
You're stating the obvious. Why is a criticism of the democrat party considered an endorsement of the republican? I just think it's funny that the only one advocating it to be illegal (to this point) is a "leftie", and his reasons are consistent with the whole "we know what's best for the people" notion.

 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: eskimospy
You do realize that the Democratic party has been far more amenable to the legalization of some drugs than the Republican party, right? A lot of the people who are ganging up on chess are in fact left wingers, such as myself. It's more like people ganging up on an authoritarian, why does it have to be left/right?
You're stating the obvious. Why is a criticism of the democrat party considered an endorsement of the republican? I just think it's funny that the only one advocating it to be illegal (to this point) is a "leftie", and his reasons are consistent with the whole "we know what's best for the people" notion.

If you use the search function you will find a dozen other threads similar to this one where die hard Republicans are making the same arguments. My point was that the problem is with authoritarianism instead of a political party and so it seems sort of silly to single one out for criticism.
 
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: eskimospy



left wingers, such as myself.

At least you admit you are a wing-nut. That is the first step to recovery.

What are you babbling about? Being a leftist doesn't make you some sort of extremist. It makes you a leftist.

I find the far bigger distinction on this board has little to do with ideology. It's mostly a split between who does and does not act like an adult.
 
Thanks the for the discussion guys.

Can someone point to a study on the addictiveness of Marijuana?

My point is, if it's no different from Nicotine or Alcohol, there's no reason it shouldn't be legalized (especially since there's precedent in a few parts of the world.)
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: eskimospy
You do realize that the Democratic party has been far more amenable to the legalization of some drugs than the Republican party, right? A lot of the people who are ganging up on chess are in fact left wingers, such as myself. It's more like people ganging up on an authoritarian, why does it have to be left/right?
You're stating the obvious. Why is a criticism of the democrat party considered an endorsement of the republican? I just think it's funny that the only one advocating it to be illegal (to this point) is a "leftie", and his reasons are consistent with the whole "we know what's best for the people" notion.

Yeah, this isn't a right vs. left issue, it's a dumb vs. smart one.

Unfortunately, huge levels of corruption and a gov't/bureaucracy addiction to giant budgets mean that marijuana/etc will remain illegal for the foreseeable future.

Think about it.

Billions upon billions of federal, state, and local spending for agencies, lawyers, courts, jail cells, labor, etc, etc, etc.

If we weren't spending so much of our law enforcement and budgetary resources on non-violent drug offenders, we could be locking up rapists, child molesters, and violent criminals FAR longer. Something like, commit assault, get 10 years mandatory, commit assault with a deadly weapon, get 50 years mandatory. Commit rape, get mandatory life. Molest a child, get mandatory life. Etc.
 
At some point within the last 100 years, someone decided that it is wrong to derive pleasure from taking substances into your system - before the 1st world war it was legally and socially acceptable to use morphine and cocaine and whatever else you might want.
 
Originally posted by: nixium
Thanks the for the discussion guys.

Can someone point to a study on the addictiveness of Marijuana?

My point is, if it's no different from Nicotine or Alcohol, there's no reason it shouldn't be legalized (especially since there's precedent in a few parts of the world.)
See my post mid-way down the previous page.

 
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