Why isn't Europe as crazy about guns as US?

[Venix]

Anything wrong with what I wrote, or are you just too dumb to argue with logic?

It's a pretty lazy and ignorant argument. Even if we assume that the founders were too stupid to expect advances in firearm technology, repeating rifles with 20 round magazines already existed. They were well-known in America and were famously brought on the Lewis and Clark Expedition during Jefferson's presidency.

Your use of phrases like "sniper rifle" and "weapons capable of massacring a town full of people" suggest a complete lack of firearms knowledge, so why not spend some time educating yourself before commenting further? The Wikipedia articles on firearm history are actually pretty informative.

 

[madoka]

Your use of phrases like "sniper rifle" and "weapons capable of massacring a town full of people" suggest a complete lack of firearms knowledge, so why not spend some time educating yourself before commenting further? The Wikipedia articles on firearm history are actually pretty informative.

Guys like him find new information or facts that disagree with their world view as abhorrent.

 

[ultimatebob]

I think that World War II had something to do with it... I'll bet that the Germans did their best to disarm the European countries they captured, and then we did our best to disarm the Germans.

That got the ball rolling... and then European socialism and lack of constitutional rights protecting firearm ownership finished off gun rights there.

 

[videogames101]

Americans don't like the idea of the state having a monopoly on military power. This is embodied in 2nd amendment and its adamant defenders. Europeans don't seem to mind as much.

The reasons for this divergence in opinion is in all likelihood based on the history of each area, but I don't know enough to point out specific events on the timeline of either area to directly explain it. It's easy to point the the nature by which the USA was founded, but not all countries founded in wartime follow the same pattern.

 

[pontifex]

Americans don't like the idea of the state having a monopoly on military power. This is embodied in 2nd amendment and its adamant defenders. Europeans don't seem to mind as much.

The reasons for this divergence in opinion is in all likelihood based on the history of each area, but I don't know enough to point out specific events on the timeline of either area to directly explain it.

Maybe has something to do with history? European powers trying to conquer other nations and realized how much a threat an armed populace presents compared to the US history where we've mostly been attacked or helped other nations fend off invading nations so we know how useful firearms in the hands of the people really are?

I'm not sure Europeans aren't "crazy" about guns. I've seen lots of news articles/videos where they do want their guns back. They also enjoy shooting with what the can get - air rifles are very popular over there.

 

[Tango]

I am sure you are looking for a sociopolitical reason, but as someone who lives with one foot on each side of the Atlantic I can tell you something, so to speak, at a micro level: people in Europe do not have as many guns as Americans for the same reason they do not have the same amount of obese people.

That is, the social stigma associated with it is very big, and deters guys who might here in the US fantasize about playing with guns from actually getting one. You can think of it in the same way many Americans think of cigarettes (and in this the roles are reversed).

Guns are in general considered gross, just like SUVs, baseball caps and white socks. And just like cigarettes in the US. If you are 20-something in Paris or Rome and your circle of girlfriends finds out you have a gun, you might as well erase their telephone numbers and e-mail contacts. Just like being a smoker severely damages your options when it comes to finding a date in New York City.

This is a very strong force in shaping social habits and opinions. If you know all the people around you are going to consider you a weirdo if you do something, you are very likely not even to consider that thing. Which is what most Europeans do. Owning a gun (apart from hunting, which also is something almost non-existant among people below 40) is something most people never think about. They don't refuse the idea. They never even consider it.

 

[Aldon]

This is globalization at its best. Some people don't want no fucking America in their homeland or in their religion or in their opinions or in their political views. Furthermore, McDonalds has been enough for now.

 

[Ruptga]

A large frontier, and violent treasonous revolt. Both drive home the necessity of being armed.

One and done. Why is this thread still here?

 

[mafia]

Switzerland, in the middle of Western Europe. Never got invaded by Germany. They love guns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B31SUm0nrwc

 

[Aldon]

I like the idea of countries being able to maintain this sort of thing called "crime rate", which is, to some extent, a very vague measure of whatever is measured in the first place. Switzerland is not America, and America is not Switzerland, France, Poland, or Swaziland. Other than that, it's almost like a tradition for Americans to own them and pass it on to their children, grandchildren, and so on. Tradition is tradition. You can't just go there and erase it with some gun restrictions or laws.

 

[mafia]

I like the idea of countries being able to maintain this sort of thing called "crime rate", which is, to some extent, a very vague measure of whatever is measured in the first place. Switzerland is not America, and America is not Switzerland, France, Poland, or Swaziland. Other than that, it's almost like a tradition for Americans to own them and pass it on to their children, grandchildren, and so on. Tradition is tradition. You can't just go there and erase it with some gun restrictions or laws.

Switzerland has traditions with guns. Watch the video I linked.

 

[DigDog]

we euros don't really have anyone to shoot, with dem guns. not like you rangers, who got all dem injuns and blackies to kill.

 

[Bird222]

I am sure you are looking for a sociopolitical reason, but as someone who lives with one foot on each side of the Atlantic I can tell you something, so to speak, at a micro level: people in Europe do not have as many guns as Americans for the same reason they do not have the same amount of obese people.

That is, the social stigma associated with it is very big, and deters guys who might here in the US fantasize about playing with guns from actually getting one. You can think of it in the same way many Americans think of cigarettes (and in this the roles are reversed).

Guns are in general considered gross, just like SUVs, baseball caps and white socks. And just like cigarettes in the US. If you are 20-something in Paris or Rome and your circle of girlfriends finds out you have a gun, you might as well erase their telephone numbers and e-mail contacts. Just like being a smoker severely damages your options when it comes to finding a date in New York City.

This is a very strong force in shaping social habits and opinions. If you know all the people around you are going to consider you a weirdo if you do something, you are very likely not even to consider that thing. Which is what most Europeans do. Owning a gun (apart from hunting, which also is something almost non-existant among people below 40) is something most people never think about. They don't refuse the idea. They never even consider it.

That's interesting, but that's what I am trying to get at. Why do the European people feel the way they do and why do we feel the way we do?

 

[biostud]

Basic Darwinism. In US all those who doesn't want to have a gun to defend themselves and their family have been shot. So only gun lovers have survived.

I think it has to do with the history of US nation. When it started there wasn't a strong state to protect all the settlers coming from all over the world, and everybody had to defend them self. This tradition has been passed on for generations and become a part of a national culture, even though US has a well functioning police to protect their citizens.

Same with Switzerland as posted in an earlier post. They have a tradition of not being engaged with other nations, and part of that tradition build on an armed population.

Most other European countries have a long history of a strong state "taking care" of the internal problems and going to war with other nations, and arm people when necessary. Also all the European countries historically has a very local populace who "knows" everybody in the local society, so you haven't had the same degree of necessity to defend your self and family, because the whole local society would "help" to deal with the problems.

 

[Colt45]

It's because europeans aren't sexually repressed.

 

[Murloc]

well in my country the constitution just says that the federation creates laws to prevent weapon abuse, and the law says that the right to own arms is guaranteed.

Lots of people own weapons, ex-conscripts usually keep the assault rifle while many people have their grand-father's rifle or so. Also there are many hunters and sports shooters. There are traditional shooting tournaments for minors too and shooting associations and federations that cover the whole territory.

But they aren't used for self-defense against crime or stuff like that, you can't carry them around loaded and stuff. It all revolves around the concept of armed people's militia, not individual freedom.

You can carry for self-defense only on a "may issue" basis if you're at risk (e.g. security worker).

This country is more liberal and in certain aspects america-like than other countries but the european ideology that the state takes care of the people and should be trusted still applies.
I think it's a good middle ground because other european countries sometimes have laws that restrict freedoms excessively or hurt the economy.

 

[Pocatello]

we euros don't really have anyone to shoot, with dem guns. not like you rangers, who got all dem injuns and blackies to kill.

You guys just use gas on the Jews.

 

[Doppel]

well in my country the constitution just says that the federation creates laws to prevent weapon abuse, and the law says that the right to own arms is guaranteed.

Lots of people own weapons, ex-conscripts usually keep the assault rifle while many people have their grand-father's rifle or so. Also there are many hunters and sports shooters. There are traditional shooting tournaments for minors too and shooting associations and federations that cover the whole territory.

But they aren't used for self-defense against crime or stuff like that, you can't carry them around loaded and stuff. It all revolves around the concept of armed people's militia.

Other european countries are much more restrictive on ownership.

Here you can carry for self-defense only on a "may issue" basis if you're at risk (e.g. security worker).

Switzerland is a good example of how high gun ownership rates don't need to be correlated with high gun crime rates. Overall its gun laws are more strict than the US, but I bet your per capita of idiot gang banger thug wannabees is lower, and they disproportionately represent gun crime in the US. When you take away the thug gang banger types in the US gun crime goes way down, outside of fringe examples like Newtown (which happen anywhere, example the Norway killer recently).

 

[biostud]

If you want to fight crime, fighting poverty is a far more efficient tool than fighting guns.

If you want to fight gun related accidents then you have to do some kind of regulation. Whether it will be bans or a gun license like a drivers license.

I can't really see the problem for a requirement of some kind of education and exam for a being able to buy a gun. Except for the very strict interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Just imagine how bad traffic would be without any requirement for a drivers license.

Also you could make it in different classes.
a. hand guns
b. hunting rifles / shotguns
...
...

 

[mikeford]

I am just wondering why it seems European countries are not that into guns as the US? What makes us different? Is there something particularly special in our history?

Arming the peasants was always seen as a mistake, and never done except as a last resort. Seems that armed people are more difficult to rule.

 

[bradly1101]

The founding founders enshrined the right to bear a few muskets - to deter British soldiers. They did not enshrine Ak-47s, sniper rifles, and other modern weapons capable of massacring a town full of people.

I agree so much!

 

[Venix]

I can't really see the problem for a requirement of some kind of education and exam for a being able to buy a gun. Except for the very strict interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Just imagine how bad traffic would be without any requirement for a drivers license.

Also you could make it in different classes.
a. hand guns
b. hunting rifles / shotguns
...
...

Accidents are already rare enough that I doubt any laws would measurably reduce them. US driver licenses really aren't a good example of effective licensing given how easy it is to get a license, and how many people simply drive without one.

The main problem with gun licenses in the US is that anti-gun zealots will inevitably try to hijack the system and use the licensing scheme to punish gun owners or deter gun ownership. We've already seen exhorbitantly high licensing fees, arbitrary rejection criteria, and long wait times in states that require licenses, anti-gun newspapers publishing the home addresses of gun owners, and anti-gun cops treating firearm owners like criminals. Washington DC recently demanded that all gun owners re-register the guns they'd already registered; if a gun owner misses his three month re-registration window, he becomes an instant felon and his guns are confiscated.

Gun owners spent decades compromising and forfeiting rights to ever-increasing gun control measures that have never lived up to their crime-reduction promises. Now they understand that compromising with people who hate you is always a losing proposition, so they'll vehemently push back against any any kind of licensing or restrictions.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I am just wondering why it seems European countries are not that into guns as the US? What makes us different? Is there something particularly special in our history?

It is their submissiveness. Remember, they are the ones that decided to stay in Europe instead of leaving for the Americas. They were the ones that submitted to both World Wars.

They are definitely into being beaten up and abused.

 

[Venix]

I agree so much!

You're proud to agree with a statement that's historically inaccurate, logically unsound, and in direct contradiction to the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Constitution?

You say a lot of really stupid shit. Are you someone's parody account?

 

[cyclohexane]

You're proud to agree with a statement that's historically inaccurate, logically unsound, and in direct contradiction to the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Constitution?

You say a lot of really stupid shit. Are you someone's parody account?

Different supreme courts interpret the constitution differently. As it is written, guns apply to a "well regulated militia" - but you never hear gun nuts bring that up.