Why is the Ring so powerful in LOTR?

[apoppin]

Morgoth could not be destroyed if I remember correctly, he was merely enchained.

If I remember correctly, neither can Sauron. However, to destroy his ring (the goal) would leave him forever powerless.

Well, the way I read it, Gandalf isn't as much a 'wizard' as a demi-god/angel type thing. And some of his power comes from the Elf ring that was given to him when he entered Middle Earth from the west. That being said, it's generally accepted that Gandalf didn't show the full extent of his power in Middle-Earth. :Q

Gandalf was ordered not to use his full powers to fight evil but to persuade men to defy Sauron. (read: Christlike figure).

The LOTR and Silmarillion delve deeply into religion.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
I am going to rent this the start of next month when it is on DVD, but I heard the end really leaves you hanging. Is that true?

I don't think I got any spoilers here besides the invisible thing, because the rest of it lost me with all the names, lol.

It leaves you hanging because there's still 2 more movies

Hmm... I read the LOTR trilogy and was wondering why Gandalf never does anything really wizardlike (or perhaps my definition of a wizard is skewed)? IIRC he just threw out some lightning bolts at the nazgul and held them off. Interestingly, it is a hobbit (Pippin? Merry?) who kills the Nazgul leader.

Well, the way I read it, Gandalf isn't as much a 'wizard' as a demi-god/angel type thing. And some of his power comes from the Elf ring that was given to him when he entered Middle Earth from the west. That being said, it's generally accepted that Gandalf didn't show the full extent of his power in Middle-Earth. :Q

I would also like to add that Ents 0wn j00 all.

Several possibilities:
1. He had just gotten his ass kicked by Saruman.
2. He was saving his strength for later.
3. Massive use of power would draw the wrong attention.
4. The 'battlemages' in later Fantasy books weren't yet around as such.
5. If he immediately starts blasting away the rest of the story gets boring.

 

[apoppin]

Several possibilities:
1. He had just gotten his ass kicked by Saruman.
2. He was saving his strength for later.
3. Massive use of power would draw the wrong attention.
4. The 'battlemages' in later Fantasy books weren't yet around as such.
5. If he immediately starts blasting away the rest of the story gets boring.

Gandalf was ordered not to use his full powers to fight evil but to persuade men to defy Sauron.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
All frodo/bilbo really know how to do is use it to go invisible which is automatic to them, but if they knew more they'd be seriously powerful. It does "All kinds of crazy sh*t"!

Yeah, like corrupt the carrier and tell all the Nazgul as well as Sauron himself where the person was.
He didn't know how to make it turn him invisible, it just did when he put it on. He didn't have a clue on how it did it.
If Gandalf would get corrupted by the ring, if Sauron managed to control him through it, or if the ring could consume/destroy him, the good guys would be left with a lot less force again. He didn't want to dare try using it, as power corrupts.

 

[kami]

Gandalf is not a stereotypical wizard. You people have seen too many cheap fantasy shows Wizards aren't supposed to have lightning bolts coming out of their fingers, it is a more subtle power, except when they unleash it in full force (i.e. Gandalf's battle with the Balrog in Moria). And as others already said, he was forbidden to directly help in the fight. He could only aid them...and could only intervene when completely necessary (no one in the fellowship would've had a chance against the balrog, so gandalf had to sacrifice himself).

 

[apoppin]

Although Gandalf suspected Bilbo's ring was magical and one of the rings he never dreamed it was the One Ring - the ruling ring. Only when the adventure begins in the Fellowship - when evil grows - does he suspect.

The Ring corrupts anyone it contacts. Only the hobbits seem to be less affected than other peoples. Gandalf realizes he dare not touch it or - in the beginning he would use it for good to overthrow Sauron, but in the end it would corrupt his heart so that he would be just like Sauron. Only Galadriel - the elven Queen - could use the Ring and not become totally evil (however she realizes she would change enough to become "dark" and passes the test by refusing it - she used to be quite a rebel in her younger days and was exiled to Middle Earth).

The moral: Power corrupts. Absolute Power (the Ring) corrupts absolutely.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: kami
Gandalf is not a stereotypical wizard. You people have seen too many cheap fantasy shows Wizards aren't supposed to have lightning bolts coming out of their fingers, it is a more subtle power, except when they unleash it in full force (i.e. Gandalf's battle with the Balrog in Moria). And as others already said, he was forbidden to directly help in the fight. He could only aid them...and could only intervene when completely necessary (no one in the fellowship would've had a chance against the balrog, so gandalf had to sacrifice himself).

Yeah.. poor Balrog

 

[apoppin]

I thought those elves were all men.

Your thinking of fairys.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Nemesis77Morgoth could not be destroyed if I remember correctly, he was merely enchained.

I know that. I said destroyed, because he was, for all intents and purposes, destroyed from this plane of existence. REALLY destrying him was out of the question (you just don't go around and kill Valar, no matter how evil they are)

Sauron, Gothmog and the rest of the Balrogs were 'lesser' Valor who followed Morgoth when he left the others.

Incorrect. To my knowledge, Sauron and Gothmog (and Balrogs) were Maiar, not Valar. Valar were present during the Creation. Melkor/Morgoth was there, Sauron and Gothmog were not. They were definitely Maiar. Very powerful Maiar, but not Valar.

 

[kami]

Incorrect. To my knowledge, Sauron and Gothmog (and Balrogs) were Maiar, not Valar. Valar were present during the Creation. Melkor/Morgoth was there, Sauron and Gothmog were not. They were definitely Maiar. Very powerful Maiar, but not Valar.

Yeah, they are Maiar...Balrog's were basically Melkor's elite soldiers. Lookup badass in the dictionary and Balrogs should be there

 

[ElFenix]

maiar are ainur, just not very powerful ones. and all the ainur were given a choice of whether to reside in their creation or not, and many of the most powerful decided to. those are the valar. although it seems like iluvatar was in control of everything even when melkor was creating counter-melodies.

gandalf (along with the other wizards) and sauron were there at the creation.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: kami

Incorrect. To my knowledge, Sauron and Gothmog (and Balrogs) were Maiar, not Valar. Valar were present during the Creation. Melkor/Morgoth was there, Sauron and Gothmog were not. They were definitely Maiar. Very powerful Maiar, but not Valar.

Yeah, they are Maiar...Balrog's were basically Melkor's elite soldiers. Lookup badass in the dictionary and Balrogs should be there

Yep. I think that in order of "powerfullness", the bad-ass ranking would be something like this (2, 3, 4 and 5 can switch their order of ranking):

1. Morgoth
2. Sauron
3. Ancalagon
4. Gothmog
5. Glaurung
6. Mithrandir
7. Saruman
8. Gandalf
9. Smaug
10. Balrogs

That's my personal list, feel free to feel different . But what should be noted is that they all had different powers. Morgoth, Ancalagon, Gothmog and the like had lots of "raw power" (altrough Morgoth was bad-ass in every possible way), whereas Gandalf and the like worked in the background. They didn't have as much direct power.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
maiar are ainur, just not very powerful ones. and all the ainur were given a choice of whether to reside in their creation or not, and many of the most powerful decided to. those are the valar. although it seems like iluvatar was in control of everything even when melkor was creating counter-melodies.

gandalf (along with the other wizards) and sauron were there at the creation.

But they were not part of the creation. Creation was a work of the Valar and Eru. Sure, Maiar were propably "hanging around" during the creation, but they weren't active part of it like the Valar were.

 

[kami]

Speaking of raw power, here is an amazing scene that was cut from FOTR's prologue

When Sauron is smashing through the army (before he kills Elendil), Gil-galad challenges him, Sauron grabs Gil-galad by the throat and shakes him violently. Gil-galad errupts into flames just from the pure evil and poison emanating from Sauron, then he tosses him aside and moves to Elendil :Q

They actually filmed this scene and had it complete. I have my fingers crossed that it is on the extended edition. Gives me goosebumps!

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: kami
Speaking of raw power, here is an amazing scene that was cut from FOTR's prologue

When Sauron is smashing through the army (before he kills Elendil), Gil-galad challenges him, Sauron grabs Gil-galad by the throat and shakes him violently. Gil-galad errupts into flames just from the pure evil and poison emanating from Sauron, then he tosses him aside and moves to Elendil :Q

They actually filmed this scene and had it complete. I have my fingers crossed that it is on the extended edition. Gives me goosebumps!

Holy crap :Q! That would be SOOOOO cool !

 

[AkumaX]

love reading great threads

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: kami

Incorrect. To my knowledge, Sauron and Gothmog (and Balrogs) were Maiar, not Valar. Valar were present during the Creation. Melkor/Morgoth was there, Sauron and Gothmog were not. They were definitely Maiar. Very powerful Maiar, but not Valar.

Yeah, they are Maiar...Balrog's were basically Melkor's elite soldiers. Lookup badass in the dictionary and Balrogs should be there

Yep. I think that in order of "powerfullness", the bad-ass ranking would be something like this (2, 3, 4 and 5 can switch their order of ranking):

1. Morgoth
2. Sauron
3. Ancalagon
4. Gothmog
5. Glaurung
6. Mithrandir
7. Saruman
8. Gandalf
9. Smaug
10. Balrogs

That's my personal list, feel free to feel different . But what should be noted is that they all had different powers. Morgoth, Ancalagon, Gothmog and the like had lots of "raw power" (altrough Morgoth was bad-ass in every possible way), whereas Gandalf and the like worked in the background. They didn't have as much direct power.

I would not rank any of the dragons above the Balrogs (and not just cause I like Balrogs ), as dragons could be killed with conventional weaponry. They had hard scales, but if one of the scales was missing, if you could penetrate one, or get a weapon in between 2 scales, you could kill a dragon. Balrogs however required strong magic, which was why Gandalf told the rest of the fellowship to run for it, as they could not even harm it, let alone kill it. He had to sacrifice his own life to be able to kill a weaker one. The big dragons were kickass, and might be stronger indeed than the weaker Balrogs, but a lot of stronger ones would rank above them. It wasn't a coincidende that Gothmog was ranked equal to Sauron when serving under Morgoth. He might not be superintelligent (although he certainly wasn't stupid either), but he had a huge amount of pure and evil power. He knew what he was supposed to do and wouldn't start doubting it, he was willing to die for Morgoth if needed.

 

[rubix]

it makes you feel very sexy when you wear it. like a pretty pretty princess.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
I would not rank any of the dragons above the Balrogs (and not just cause I like Balrogs ), as dragons could be killed with conventional weaponry. They had hard scales, but if one of the scales was missing, if you could penetrate one, or get a weapon in between 2 scales, you could kill a dragon. Balrogs however required strong magic, which was why Gandalf told the rest of the fellowship to run for it, as they could not even harm it, let alone kill it. He had to sacrifice his own life to be able to kill a weaker one. The big dragons were kickass, and might be stronger indeed than the weaker Balrogs, but a lot of stronger ones would rank above them. It wasn't a coincidende that Gothmog was ranked equal to Sauron when serving under Morgoth. He might not be superintelligent (although he certainly wasn't stupid either), but he had a huge amount of pure and evil power. He knew what he was supposed to do and wouldn't start doubting it, he was willing to die for Morgoth if needed.

Arda has this to say about Balrogs:

The Balrogs were spirits of fire seduced by Melkor in the beginning of Arda, and who dwelt in his northern fortress of Utumno. During the First Age, the Balrogs were the most feared of Morgoth's forces after the dragons

Consider that there were several Balrogs in the siege of.... Damn, I forgot the name of the elven kingdom in the Silmarillion ! But anyhow, there were several Balrogs present, whereas Ancalagon and his group of lesser dragons, drove back the entire Army of The Valar in The War of the Wrath. Ancalagon was slayed by Eärendil, after a fight that took 24 hours. When he died, Ancalgon destroyed three mountains in the process.

I would say that's pretty good indication of some serious bad-assness!

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
I would not rank any of the dragons above the Balrogs (and not just cause I like Balrogs ), as dragons could be killed with conventional weaponry. They had hard scales, but if one of the scales was missing, if you could penetrate one, or get a weapon in between 2 scales, you could kill a dragon. Balrogs however required strong magic, which was why Gandalf told the rest of the fellowship to run for it, as they could not even harm it, let alone kill it. He had to sacrifice his own life to be able to kill a weaker one. The big dragons were kickass, and might be stronger indeed than the weaker Balrogs, but a lot of stronger ones would rank above them. It wasn't a coincidende that Gothmog was ranked equal to Sauron when serving under Morgoth. He might not be superintelligent (although he certainly wasn't stupid either), but he had a huge amount of pure and evil power. He knew what he was supposed to do and wouldn't start doubting it, he was willing to die for Morgoth if needed.

Arda has this to say about Balrogs:

The Balrogs were spirits of fire seduced by Melkor in the beginning of Arda, and who dwelt in his northern fortress of Utumno. During the First Age, the Balrogs were the most feared of Morgoth's forces after the dragons

Consider that there were several Balrogs in the siege of.... Damn, I forgot the name of the elven kingdom in the Silmarillion ! But anyhow, there were several Balrogs present, whereas Ancalagon and his group of lesser dragons, drove back the entire Army of The Valar in The War of the Wrath. Ancalagon was slayed by Eärendil, after a fight that took 24 hours. When he died, Ancalgon destroyed three mountains in the process.

I would say that's pretty good indication of some serious bad-assness!

Naah, they just tend to have a bad case of stomach acid

If anyone was breathing fire or acid at me I'd back off too

 

[kami]

Nemesis....Siege of Angband?

For more than four centuries, the forces of the Noldor had besieged Morgoth in his northern fortress of Angband, holding the northern mountain fences of Beleriand and their passes against his forces. In I 455 Morgoth broke the Siege of Angband in the battle that came to be known as the Dagor Bragollach, the Battle of Sudden Flame.

The Battle began one night in winter, when Morgoth sent out rivers of flame from Angband that consumed the wide plains of Ard-galen. Then came his armies of Balrogs and Orcs, led by Glaurung the dragon. They forced the highlands of Dorthonion, and took the fortresses of Angrod and Aegnor who dwelt there. Maglor's Gap was also taken, giving Morgoth an entry into Beleriand itself.

Maedhros' fortress on Himring held against the tide of foes, and so did the tower of Minas Tirith in the west, and the mountain forts of Ered Wethrin. Nonetheless, the Siege was broken, the Sons of Fëanor scattered, and the forces of Morgoth roamed at will throughout the northern lands.

As the battle raged against the Mountains of Shadow, Fingolfin the High King rode in anger across the dust of Anfauglith (the plain that had been Ard-galen) and challenged Morgoth to single combat. At the doors of Angband itself, they fought a great duel, but though Morgoth was wounded, Fingolfin was destroyed by the Hammer of the Underworld.

I guess that also proves your point since a Dragon led the army!

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: kami
Nemesis....Siege of Angband?

negative. Angband was the fortress of Morgoth. maybe I'm talking about Nargothrond, I'm not sure.

I guess that also proves your point since a Dragon led the army!

yep, and Glaurung wasn't even mightiest of The Dragons . That honor belongs to Ancalagon IMO.

 

[TheOmegaCode]

Tolkien said that he never wrote people as more powerful as another, his point was to express the diffrences in all of them, and while some dont know magics, they are useful in their own ways...

Hence a small hobbit changing the course of history...

I just wanted to rain on everyone's parade...

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: TheOmegaCode
Tolkien said that he never wrote people as more powerful as another, his point was to express the diffrences in all of them, and while some dont know magics, they are useful in their own ways...

Hence a small hobbit changing the course of history...

I just wanted to rain on everyone's parade...

Indeed, if you have a dragon which incinerates all before him you do not want to put it BEHIND your own troups, now do you?

Balrogs were more like Rambo, virtually indestructible killing machines

 

[ElFenix]

glaurung was the first dragon