Why is the N64 apparently so hard to emulate?

[crisium]

The Sega Saturn is one of my favourites as well. Probably 3rd.

I modded mine to play burnt games rather than emulate though.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

It would just be nice to be able to play all console games on a PC emulator that's accurate.
QUOTE]

I guess. I just keep a NES on hand to play my favorite classics when I get tired of modern games. I do wish I had a working Super NES though, mine died recently. I did play Chrono Trigger on an emu on my PC for awhile.

 

[darkewaffle]

The only game I ever had issues with for on the N64 was Ogre Battle 64 I think, which has (had?) some problems with certain texture layers being rendered correctly/at all. Other than that I've done some light 64 emulating over the years and haven't had any issues that I recall.

 

[Born2bwire]

Well, I like the Saturn the best because I think it's games are the most fun, and it had the most Japanese-style games of it's generation. Since most Saturn games load very fast, it proves that Nintendo made a huge mistake going with carts. Some N64 games have noticeable access times anyway. Although I think Nintendo may have gone with carts because they were more difficult to copy.

Have you used the actual Saturn? I mean the load times for the early CD systems were pretty bad. Philips CDi, Sega CD and Playstation 1 were pretty slow compared to a cart.

Hahaha. Just remembered about the load time between screens in that third Zelda game on CDi. What a bunch of horseshit.

EDIT: Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du_KeZeMJrQ

About the same in Playstation with say Resident Evil. You had to wait for a load time everytime you entered a new room. At least they gave a door opening animation when you were doing it but it just gets annoying.

 

[Anarchist420]

Have you used the actual Saturn? I mean the load times for the early CD systems were pretty bad. Philips CDi, Sega CD and Playstation 1 were pretty slow compared to a cart.

Hahaha. Just remembered about the load time between screens in that third Zelda game on CDi. What a bunch of horseshit.

EDIT: Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du_KeZeMJrQ

About the same in Playstation with say Resident Evil. You had to wait for a load time everytime you entered a new room. At least they gave a door opening animation when you were doing it but it just gets annoying.

Yes, have you played "the actual saturn"? Most Sega Saturn games' loading times aren't bad at all. Unlike any PS1 game I've ever played (as well as most DC games), you can usually skip through the intro videos and logos in most saturn games.

Loading times in X-men vs. Street Fighter are super fast. The Saturn's CD-drive has a large cache buffer and a Hitachi SH-1 as a drive controller, so loading times aren't that slow.

The only saturn game I've played with bad loading times is Nocturne in the Moonlight.

Carts still have access times, and so much less space that the Sega Saturn rendered them obsolete.

 

[Born2bwire]

Yes, have you played "the actual saturn"? Most Sega Saturn games' loading times aren't bad at all. Unlike any PS1 game I've ever played (as well as most DC games), you can usually skip through the intro videos and logos in most saturn games.

Loading times in X-men vs. Street Fighter are super fast. The Saturn's CD-drive has a large cache buffer and a Hitachi SH-1 as a drive controller, so loading times aren't that slow.

The only saturn game I've played with bad loading times is Nocturne in the Moonlight.

Carts still have access times, and so much less space that the Sega Saturn rendered them obsolete.

Yeah, and I hated the Saturn. It was quickly eclipsed by the Dreamcast thankfully. The access time on carts though is very low and the memory restrictions weren't too much of a problem with the N64. The biggest limit it had was the lack of FMV but in terms of game content I never felt that it caused huge restrictions compared to the Playstation. With the advent of mp3 you could get a whole game of spoken dialogue and recorded music without using a CD as well (not that I can recall a lot of Playstation games even using CD music). It was all an ackward generation. The CD wasn't good enough to be the perfect media but neither were carts.

 

[mmntech]

Hahaha. Just remembered about the load time between screens in that third Zelda game on CDi. What a bunch of horseshit.

EDIT: Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du_KeZeMJrQ

Let us never mention the Unholy Triforce again in general conversation. To say its name means a curse on all of Hyrule. One so horrible that it would make Gannon green with envy. D:

As for CD versus cart. CD one mainly due to cost IMO. Not only could you get bigger games with FMV and hi-fi music, they were dead cheap to manufacture.

Nintendo could have made bigger cartridges for the N64. Sky was the limit back then. Remember the NeoGeo? The big downside was cost. I remember saving up to buy Sonic & Knuckles, which was $70 back in 1994. Some larger Genesis games were going over $100. Unthinkable today. For that price, you'd expect the special edition and a boatload of swag with it. It's also worth noting that none of Nintendo's systems since the SNES have been cutting edge. Even the Wii is just an overclocked Gamecube.

That said, I can't attest to the load time issue on any of the early CD consoles. Was a PC man back then. The beauty of hard drive installs.

 

[Born2bwire]

Let us never mention the Unholy Triforce again in general conversation. To say its name means a curse on all of Hyrule. One so horrible that it would make Gannon green with envy. D:

As for CD versus cart. CD one mainly due to cost IMO. Not only could you get bigger games with FMV and hi-fi music, they were dead cheap to manufacture.

Nintendo could have made bigger cartridges for the N64. Sky was the limit back then. Remember the NeoGeo? The big downside was cost. I remember saving up to buy Sonic & Knuckles, which was $70 back in 1994. Some larger Genesis games were going over $100. Unthinkable today. For that price, you'd expect the special edition and a boatload of swag with it. It's also worth noting that none of Nintendo's systems since the SNES have been cutting edge. Even the Wii is just an overclocked Gamecube.

That said, I can't attest to the load time issue on any of the early CD consoles. Was a PC man back then. The beauty of hard drive installs.

Hah, I remember those prices. The other day I heard that the MSRP for Crono Trigger was around $70. Jesus Christ and my brother and I got that one for Christmas one year. I remember that the average PC game I was buying was $30. I don't recall the carts for the N64 being priced so outrageously. I want to say that it was probably $40-$50 then.

Haha. And don't forget how wonderful the early FMV and voice acting was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHhB_Ssggr8

 

[vhx]

It depends a lot on the plugins as well. I had a hell of a time trying to get one of my favorite old games to play (Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon). Most plugins would make the game chug at like 1-5 FPS. After a few tries I finally found some that work.

 

[exar333]

Most games without custom microcode work well, all things considered.

I think the main issue is that hardly any emulator authors care about the N64, so there isn't a lot of work being done to try to progress N64 emulation past its current state.

This. Most 'good' games from the N64 are already emulated and run great. Titles like Mario 64, SotE, Zelda 64, etc...

 

[darkewaffle]

Hah, I remember those prices. The other day I heard that the MSRP for Crono Trigger was around $70. Jesus Christ and my brother and I got that one for Christmas one year. I remember that the average PC game I was buying was $30. I don't recall the carts for the N64 being priced so outrageously. I want to say that it was probably $40-$50 then.

Haha. And don't forget how wonderful the early FMV and voice acting was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHhB_Ssggr8

Oh no way man N64 games were obscene. I remember pre-ordering Ogre Battle 64 and Majoras Mask and still paying $60+ when you include tax, and that was -after- $10 down on them. Pretty sure, at least.

 

[Born2bwire]

Oh no way man N64 games were obscene. I remember pre-ordering Ogre Battle 64 and Majoras Mask and still paying $60+ when you include tax, and that was -after- $10 down on them. Pretty sure, at least.

Hmmmm... that must be another lost memory. But didn't Majoras Mask include the expansion cart too? I still haven't finished Ogre Battle myself but I must have been near the end. Don't know what's become of the N64. Think it stayed with my sisters and it must be in my Mom's hands as a result.

 

[darkewaffle]

Hmmmm... that must be another lost memory. But didn't Majoras Mask include the expansion cart too? I still haven't finished Ogre Battle myself but I must have been near the end. Don't know what's become of the N64. Think it stayed with my sisters and it must be in my Mom's hands as a result.

Haha, no I don't think so actually. I'm pretty sure I got MM and then was like "wtf? I can't play it?" and had to wait until my birthday to get the expansion cart from mom and dad

 

[Born2bwire]

Haha, no I don't think so actually. I'm pretty sure I got MM and then was like "wtf? I can't play it?" and had to wait until my birthday to get the expansion cart from mom and dad

Hahaha. Man. I wonder if I will be that clueless when I buy video game paraphenalia for my kids or grandkids. I do remember that they bundled those kind of accessories with some kind of flagship game. For example, the rumble pack came with Starfox 64.

 

[Sulaco]

Hah, I remember those prices. The other day I heard that the MSRP for Crono Trigger was around $70. Jesus Christ and my brother and I got that one for Christmas one year. I remember that the average PC game I was buying was $30. I don't recall the carts for the N64 being priced so outrageously. I want to say that it was probably $40-$50 then.

Haha. And don't forget how wonderful the early FMV and voice acting was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHhB_Ssggr8

lol. The bad old days.

Most N64 games routinely retailed for $60-$70, and extremely "anticipated" titles like Turok or Goldeneye went for $80.

It wasn't until Nintendo came out with their version of Sony's "Greatest Hits" that their prices became more reasonable.

I still have issues from my subscription to Next Generation Magazine from 1996-1997 with ads from EB (electronics boutique) for N64 games ranging between $60-$80.
Even some of the last SNES games, like Donkey Kong Country 3, went for over $60.

It was insane.

 

[juiio]

Most N64 games routinely retailed for $60-$70, and extremely "anticipated" titles like Turok or Goldeneye went for $80.

I'm not sure where you got your games, but most N64 games were $50 or less. The MSRP for Goldeneye was $47.99.

 

[dpodblood]

I've never had a problem with Project 64 games. Most of the popular games work fine, or without any game breaking problems. I have one of those n64>USB adapters as well, but prefer to play with my Logitech dual analog, because the analog sticks in my N64 controllers are totally worn out (thanks Goldeneye, and Perfect Dark).

 

[Fox5]

I'm not sure where you got your games, but most N64 games were $50 or less. The MSRP for Goldeneye was $47.99.

Maybe he's Canadian?

Though I think some stores did jack up prices over MSRP. This was pre-Internet and before Walmart was quite the monster it is today, it was harder to price check.

I don't remember any 1st party games over $50 (maybe $60, at max), but there were plenty of 3rd party games that went higher. Thankfully, 3rd party games weren't very good on the N64, but I remember them usually launching between $60-$80 (Doom 64!). The real killer was that their player's choice series only cut prices for $30-$40 instead of $10 to $20 like Sony.

 

[crisium]

Yeah I remember seeing Doom 64 for $70 at K-Mart.

 

[Born2bwire]

Yeah I remember seeing Doom 64 for $70 at K-Mart.

Man, I had Quake II on the N64. Wasn't a bad port from what I recall. Why would you get Doom 64?

 

[Sulaco]

Sorry guys, not sure when you picked up the N64, but in the early days, the prices were ridiculous. I got the system Christmas of '96, and that's just the way it was for at least a couple of years

I'm not sure where you got your games, but most N64 games were $50 or less. The MSRP for Goldeneye was $47.99.

I'm not sure to what time period you're referring, but if you're talking about within the first couple of years of the N64s release, that is not correct. MOST, if not all, games were MSRP over $60, many for much more.



Here's some proof. Scanned from a multi-page Electronics Boutique ad from Next Generation Magazine from July 1997 and November 1997:

(P.S. N64 launched in North America in September 1996)

Yes, that's $79.99 for Shadows of the Empire.

...and Goldeneye for $70.

Also, just for fun, check out some of the SNES prices on the next page:

Super Mario RPG or Donkey Kong Country, anyone?

Oh, and it got cut off unfortunately, but Toy Story there, in mid 1997, on the SNES, was going for $79.99.

So, there ya go...

 

[ghost recon88]

Man those look like some good vintage magazines from back when video games were good :thumbsup:

 

[Born2bwire]

I just see frogs in icecubes. I guess imageshack isn't allowing hotlinking.

 

[Josh123]

Man I miss those days. I remember my aunt some how managed to get not one but two N64 bundles the Christmas they were released. They were sold out EVERYWHERE but some lady that preordered two decided not to get them and my aunt snatched them up.

I had the most fun playing games on the N64 than any other system. Our whole family would get together and play Mario 64.

 

[BD2003]

lol. The bad old days.

Most N64 games routinely retailed for $60-$70, and extremely "anticipated" titles like Turok or Goldeneye went for $80.

It wasn't until Nintendo came out with their version of Sony's "Greatest Hits" that their prices became more reasonable.

I still have issues from my subscription to Next Generation Magazine from 1996-1997 with ads from EB (electronics boutique) for N64 games ranging between $60-$80.
Even some of the last SNES games, like Donkey Kong Country 3, went for over $60.

It was insane.

I remember paying like $80 for strider for the genesis, IIRC the first 8 megabit cart. (that's only one megabyte, less than a floppy!). Street fighter II was the first 16 megabit cart, and I paid 80-90 for that one. Strider was a waste, but SF2 was worth every cent. Still have it, even.

And those were in like 1992 dollars. Games seem so cheap nowadays.