why is the death penalty so bad?

[skace]

Capital Punishment is a copout and a slippery slope. If it were to become the norm then courts would become human recycling centers. How are you better than a killer by killing them? You arn't.

 

[Logix]

<< why is the death penalty so bad? >>


There are two problems I have with the death penalty.

1. It's irreversible.
2. In many cases, it's too lenient a punishment.

A guy like Timothy McVeigh wanted to be put to death by the government, and we granted his wish. He got exactly what he wanted. Ideally, he'd have spent life in a hard-labor prison rotting away his years. And, it wouldn't be the Holiday Inn of prisons. No cable TV, no cigarettes. Heck, give 'em hours and hours of solitary confinement, while they're not being exhausted doing mindless labor. That would be much more punishing, I think, than a quick, painless death.

But, since this non-Holiday Inn prison camp isn't an option, I support the death penalty as the next best option.

 

[shazbot]

My only concern with the death penalty is possibility of killing an innocent guy. Its irreversible, so if new evidence or new forensic techniques develop in the future that proves he's innocent, you can't exactly "unkill" him. Alot of people say that 1 or 2 innocent death is worth it, but I'm sure your opinion will change if you're that 1 person =\.

 

[AnthraX101]

<< the same people that oppose abortion vehemently support the death penalty. hmm. >>



Last I checked, the unborn childeren didn't do anything. It's hardly a crime. IMHO, your position (or if your just playing the devil's advocate, the libral position) is far more hypocrytical. Kill the poor little innocent childeren, but don't touch the criminals!

Armani

 

[Elledan]

It'll be a long time before people will start to realize that no form of punishment equals justice.

Punishment is the inability of those who created the laws to deal with individuals who refuse to follow them.

 

[SpecialEd]

<< I'm living on planet reality. I repeat: There has never been even a single case of an executed person later being proven innocent; not one, none, ever, ZERO. >>




what about the Salem witch trials???

I believe the state of MASS is still apologizing for that blunder...

 

[Nitemare]

<< nobody has the right to take another person's life because they are a person.

*kat. <-- . >>



That is such a stupid arguement, kat..

<-- using your arguement against you: then the murderer is not a person and should not be treated as such. They should be treated like the animals they are and slaughtered with absolutely no remorse.

<-- Taking Russ's back..I'm all for the death penalty as well..if there is proof without a doubt let the punishment fit the crime..Timothy McVeigh should have had M80's strapped all over his body and have them detonated(I'm sure we could have found many a volunteer). Dahmer should have been shot by a cross-eyed executioner...ie..doesn't exactly get it right the first time..

Bin Laden - see the McVeigh execution..also his last meal should be a big old footlong hot dog served to him by in inmate named Bubba

If there is indisputable evidence then the person does not need 10-20 years of appeal..give em a year or 2 to get born again so they can see Jesus(lol...yeah right)..
It's sort of interesting that I see this today as I was thinking about it earlier. Europe does not believe in the death penalty and as such they made everyone sign that stupid paper saying that they would not even extradite someone to serve trial in another country where he could be tried for the death penalty..

So for all the Brits on here...say you get someone who killed old Margaret Thatcher, or if they would have killed Diana instead of the drunk driver...but they had done it in a truly barbaric and horrendous style(rape torture degradation..etc) or if he had done a family member of yours(your wife, mother, daughter) the same way..would then you not have a change of heart. Why not try to reform this murderer and rapist so he can re-enter society and maybe repay his debt to the family of the victim by being a servant to the family..so they can spend every waking moment reminded by the killers presence of their tragic loss..It's only fair..

<--is a diehard fan of an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth..let the punishment fit the crime.

 

[sublime79]

Capital punishment is not bad. The only thing that's wrong with it is that it takes too long to go through, what with all the appeals and whatnot. Anybody not in favor of it, wait till someones kid that you know gets murdered then see how you feel about it.

 

[Elledan]

<< <--is a diehard fan of an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth..let the punishment fit the crime. >>

Vengeance. How cute.

How about Justice?

 

[sublime79]

<<

<< <--is a diehard fan of an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth..let the punishment fit the crime. >>

Vengeance. How cute.

How about Justice? >>



ven·geance (vnjns)
n.
Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.

That sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Elledan]

<<

<<

<< <--is a diehard fan of an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth..let the punishment fit the crime. >>

Vengeance. How cute.

How about Justice? >>



ven·geance (vnjns)
n.
Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.

That sounds pretty good to me. >>

It may sound good to you, but is it a just course of action?

 

[sublime79]

Yes I believe it is a just course of action because I can see no other punishment that would be appropriate for high crimes. If someone commits treason against our country, do you think that they should be executed?

 

[Elledan]

<< Yes I believe it is a just course of action because I can see no other punishment that would be appropriate for high crimes. If someone commits treason against our country, do you think that they should be executed? >>

No, because I firmly believe that it's wrong to kill or harm a person, regardless of what that person has done.

Any kind of violence is only appropriate if it's used for self-defense. Self-defense does not include murdering someone.

Basically, the death penatly is identical to vendetta, except for the minor difference that it's the government which does the job, instead of burdening the family with it. How terribly thoughtful.

Like I said before, punishment is only used by people or a group of people (e.g., a government) because of a lack of understanding. A 'bad' action is punished, because people don't want to be punished, right? Wrong. No one knows why people refuse to obey (certain) rules and apparently no one thinks it's about time we find out.

Punishment equals hopelessness and anger, anger caused by lack of understanding.

 

[Nitemare]

<< Yes I believe it is a just course of action because I can see no other punishment that would be appropriate for high crimes. If someone commits treason against our country, do you think that they should be executed? >>



They will never sentence John Walker to death because there are too many bleeding heart liberals out there. The man denounced his country, conspired with a known terrorist, joined a terrorist faction that has performed terrorist acts against the US, stuck with his comrades after they attempted to kill 50 thousand or so innocent citizens and actually killed 3000 of them, actually took up arms against Americans seeking to capture the guilty party, involved in a prison riot where the first casualty by taliban hands, ...and the media still refers to him as the "American" taliban...

He won't be sentenced to death because of all these traitorous heathens that will side with a known traitor vs a nation seeking justice and retribution.

As far as justice...I got your justice right here. A balance in one hand to weigh the sins...and a sword in the other to deal out the punishment..and they call her the statue of justice.

 

[Aelus]

The biggest issue with the death penanty i have, is that there's always the possibility, regardless of how clear the case might seem at first sight with the details presented, that the convicted person is innocent.

i recently saw a documentary about an english guy who was released from prison after 20 years, because they finally looked into the case again, and made the conclusion that the cops never looked at other suspects (including the person who was proven later on to have been the armed robber with a DNA test iirc), they were after that one guy, because he pissed off a cop on a private issue.

he spent 20 years in jail, but he was released, and how horrible as it may seem, i think he's better off now than if he would have been executed, which would have probably been the case in the USA.

Aelus

 

[Aelus]

it seem that the old truth that as long as a nation has food and entertainment, they'll be happy.

in the ancient rome, they threw people with different beliefs for the lions, nowadays, they execute people with lousy lawyers.

Aelus

 

[tcsenter]

<< Anybody not in favor of it, wait till someones kid that you know gets murdered then see how you feel about it. >>

That is, of course, a silly argument, seeing as there have been a number of people who have participated in demonstrations OPPOSING the execution of the person who murdered their family member. I've seen several interviews with parents and family members of victims who say they don't support the death penalty. Maybe that means they just didn't love their family members as much?

 

[Elledan]

<< As far as justice...I got your justice right here. A balance in one hand to weigh the sins...and a sword in the other to deal out the punishment..and they call her the statue of justice. >>

...and we all know how far justice goes since the creation of this statue...

It would pretty much suck to be one of the about 5 people who are murdered each year by the US government yet are later found to be innocent, no?

Someone who has committed one or more gruesome deeds does not belong in a society, so far everyone here can agree, I hope. However, once this has been determined, what does one do? What does one decide?
One can let anger and ignorance influence the judgement and sentence this person to death, or to stay for a long period in a building which is supposed to keep 'criminals', as they're called', away from society.
But does this solve the 'problem'? No, of course not. By murdering the murderer, one accomplishes nothing, it only shows the citizens of the country that the government condones murder in certain cases, making murder less 'wrong'.
A jail-sentence accomplishes very little as well, because by maltreatment of a 'criminal', he or she won't suddenly change into a 'good citizen'. It's more likely that they'll forever hold a grudge against their country, making them even more dangerous.

The only just course of action is to investigate why they commit these 'crimes' and what can be done about it.

But the general public doesn't give a damn about 'justice' and what's just and what's not. They want to see blood. Vendetta. Vengeance. I truly wonder what makes us better than the citizens of the Roman Empire who enjoyed the slaughtering of wild animals, criminals, Christians and gladiators, who were forced to fight each other for the 'glory' of the Empire.

 

[sublime79]

<<

<< Anybody not in favor of it, wait till someones kid that you know gets murdered then see how you feel about it. >>

That is, of course, a silly argument, seeing as there have been a number of people who have participated in demonstrations OPPOSING the execution of the person who murdered their family member. I've seen several interviews with parents and family members of victims who say they don't support the death penalty. Maybe that means they just didn't love their family members as much? >>



And I've also seen interviews with people who wish they could have been the ones "flipping the switch" instead of having to watch.

 

[sublime79]

<< By murdering the murderer, one accomplishes nothing, it only shows the citizens of the country that the government condones murder in certain cases, making murder less 'wrong'. >>



mur·der (m&ucirc;rdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

 

[sublime79]

<<

<< nobody has the right to take another person's life because they are a person.

*kat. <-- . >>



the same people that oppose abortion vehemently support the death penalty. hmm. >>



Excellent point! Killing unborn babies is a womans choice, but killing murderers is just wrong. Sheesh

 

[Nemesis77]

When I think of capital punishment, I'm always reminded about the case of that american kid in Singapore (or was it Malaysia?).

He was caught vandalising, and was sentenced to a whipping. Americans protested because "whipping is inhuman" or "whipping is not done in USA".

Still, there has been cases in USA where european nationals have been executed. And nobody in USA made a big noise about it, even when they protested when american was whipped. And I think whipping isn't nearly as bad as execution.

 

[skace]

Damn Elledan,

I agree completely with what you said regarding death penalty basically equals hopelessness. I think many people don't realize what you are saying with regards to the fact that if you continue killing people that do something wrong, you will never learn or understand why the do something wrong. You basically kill your means to finding prevention and play a major role in keeping the ball rolling. Its like popping zits, each one you pop will only make more surface, because you arn't examining why the zits surface only practicing a simple method of removing them. But even a popped zit leaves a mark.

 

[Texmaster]

<< i see nothing wrong with using the death penalty to give the victims' families a little closure. >>



Exactly GoPunk. I completely agree.

And this is what people keep forgetting about when they frown on Capital Punishment, the victim's family.

I dont care if it does cost more if it gives those people closure.

And Texas' crime rate is massviely influenced by the fresh supply of illegal aliens.

 

[skace]

Also, by giving the death sentence, you justify the killers reasoning. You are sending the message to the killer that some things can only be solved through killing thereby making what they did somehow correct. Remember the end of 7even? If you've seen the movie then you understand the point of view.



<< And this is what people keep forgetting about when they frown on Capital Punishment, the victim's family. >>


I was taught that emotional decisions were irrational ones. That means most victim's families are going to make irrational decisions to give themselves a few minutes of pleasure.