Why is PCI Express being pushed so hard?

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: Sqube
A quote from that motherboard ribbon13 referenced:

Dual PCI Express x16 slots with FULL SPEED x16 lanes on each slot to support NVIDIA SLI? technology at unprecedented speeds

Doesn't SLI currently work by splitting the x16 lane into two x8 lanes? In which case, this board totally r0x0rs your s0x0rs to the extreme!!!!!!

You didn't notice in the thread about my machine?

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: halfadder
Suction is relative. Now that we have PCI-E there is simply no need for AGP on a new or upgraded system. It's obsolete technology so why bother even wasting time discussing it? PCI-E is far faster and far better than even AGP 8x.

As they say: lead, follow, or get out of the way!

Also... how many of you have compared video in on AGP vs PCIe?

 

[Sqube]

PCI-e is definitely superior to AGP, but as of right now, there is not a big difference. Later on, obviously, the extra bandwidth inherent in PCI-e will be beyond incredibly useful. But right now? Not so much.

And ribbon13, nah, I didn't catch it before. I saw that it was SLI, but I didn't see that it was some kind of uber-SLI.

 

[Ike0069]

Originally posted by: halfadder
Suction is relative. Now that we have PCI-E there is simply no need for AGP on a new or upgraded system. It's obsolete technology so why bother even wasting time discussing it? PCI-E is far faster and far better than even AGP 8x.

As they say: lead, follow, or get out of the way!

Well I agree that it's relative, but I still think AGP is a very viable option. And it's definitley not obselete. ATI will be releasing the X800 and X850 lines in a AGP version.

 

[mb]

As of today, I'd say AGP and PCI-e are about the same in terms of performance. I was so excited when I read about PCI-e, but since it's release, there haven't been much in the way of performance improvements.
I think in 3-4 years from now, PCI-e will shadow AGP, much like AGP shadows PCI today.

 

[corkyg]

That is the nature of technology. There is always something new or better around the corner. From a business perspective, it is essential in order to stay in business. So, not only is it a technical advance, they also do, in fact, need our money in order to stay alive.

 

[Vernor]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
AGP and PCI do indeed suck for anything requiring a lot of upstream bandwidth.

And in the real world that would be ?

 

[ribbon13]

HD Video Capture

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: Greenman
It's a great way to sell a boat load of new hardware.

my sentiments exactly. and in a few more months i will be one of those lemmings taht goes the PCIe route

 

[Rami7007]

this thread should just end... There always has to be something new... accept it.... if you dont like it just dont buy it... your not being forced... when pentium 2's were out they were thought to have been fast... 800 Mhz was once fast.... time changes... Pong was good graphics... Heck, a wheel was amazing (and still is )... now we laugh at 800 Mhz, and step on our pentium 2's .... Whats wrong with newer stuff i might ask you?

You said that you want some one to tell you what the need for PCI-E is, correct? Well, imagine this, as other people were saying... Everyone has AGP, blah, blah, blah, and it is fast.... then one day a new game requires extremely high bandwiths (i am talking years from now)... Uh, oh, nobody can play. Our graphics cards arent good enough! what to do??? Lets buy PCI-E.... And the stores either go flooding with people buying PCI-E, or nobody can afford it or get it because they've got their new or fairly new system.... Uh, oh spagettio (sorry about that)... Changes take time... and by putting PCI-E out now there is a good amount of years for people to switch when they have the money or can... so when that new game comes out (Half-Life 3 ) YOU ARE READY!!!!!!! Its for a smooth transition...

So, just accept it, dont buy it if you dont want, and stop whining about it
Heck, i just built my system with PCI-E for future reasons.... Why dont you just go play some good old pong. Cause once it was fast and good... so why the need for change, right? Ill be laughing while im playing some hard core games and your sitting alone in a dark corner of your room playing countless ours of the advanced technology of pong... and maybe a few years down the road you can switch to AGP, but dont hurry cause we dont need it yet.....

 

[DanDaMan315]

Actually I started this thread after realizing that my relatively new computer's longevity has been severely cut down by PCI-E. Of all the things that came with the 939 pin processors the most important is the PCI-E. Dual channels make no difference for AMD anyway. I also started it because people have been saying AGP is out of date when in fact it is quite far from reaching its full potential.

I suppose that PCI-E will give me an excuse to go buy a new system earlier. I love buying new computer parts for some reason, really makes me feel good.

PCI-E makes me wish I had stepped up back when I got my computer and gotten a 939 system. Just at the time it was very expensive.

Originally posted by: jpbelauskas

Originally posted by: Greenman
It's a great way to sell a boat load of new hardware.

my sentiments exactly. and in a few more months i will be one of those lemmings taht goes the PCIe route

How often do you upgrade your computer? Seems like your system is fine.

 

[Macro2]

It's a great way to sell a boat load of new hardware.

Intel - BTX


mmore bull

 

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: Vernor

Originally posted by: ribbon13
AGP and PCI do indeed suck for anything requiring a lot of upstream bandwidth.

And in the real world that would be ?

When you're working with 3d animation and CAD apps, you sometimes need to used a lot of memory for geometry and high resolution textures, so some professional level Open GL cards, like the Wildcat Realizm can use system memory and hard drive space for additional storage. The Realizm 800 can access 256 GB worth of virtual memory outside the graphics card for really complex projects, sort of a super high end version of the technology behind the GeForce 6600 cards with TurboCache.

I haven't seen any benchmarks on the PCIe version yet, but I'm willing to bet that the faster uplink speeds on the PCIe Realizm help the virtual memory run more smoothly than the AGP versions (which both seem to be limited to 16GB of VM, but I'm not sure if this is an AGP limitation or just a function of the Realizm 100 and 200 cards just being a more low end product).

 

[ribbon13]

I own a Realizm 800. There are no words to describe how much PCIe helps.

 

[Bar81]

Interesting, but still not a reason to switch to PCI-E for the entire desktop segment.

 

[ribbon13]

Yes it is, it will allow solidification between desktop and server chipsets. I expect 4 years from now 2x x16 PCIe + 3x x4 PCIe or higher will be standard. When SAS hits market it will be even better as SATA and SCSI converge. From one controller I could have SAS, SCSI, SATA and thus IDE. Talk about simplifying things for everyone.

 

[Bar81]

It's not simplifying things for the desktop users as it's already pretty simple. Desktop users will for the most part never use SAS, Realizm cards, etc. I'm sure it's great for you but for the desktop there's simply no need for it besides getting it established so that they'll be a point to it in 2H 2006 or beyond.

 

[SonicIce]

Answer: They are just trying to take our money.

 

[Sqube]

Aren't they always?

 

[milehigh]

You can say that ISA sucks vs. PCI and that PCI sucks vs. AGP but in each of these instances the technologies were together on the same board during the transitions. My upgrade dilemma is that I have a high end video card now (9800 Pro AIW) but would like to move to an A64 platform. If I go Nforce 3 will I kick myself later? I haven't seen any solutions with PCI-E and AGP together which would be ideal for me.

 

[Markfw]

PCI-X is better than pci-e (except the time ONE 16x slot is used) Overall total thruput is better. Equivalent the 8x pci-e for 4 slots and pci-e 6x for 2 more ! I sure don't need 1x or 4x for anything....

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: ribbon13

Originally posted by: Sqube
It's an "If you build it, they will come" type of thing.

And they are
http://tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8we.html

great googily moogily!

 

[StrangerGuy]

While I do agree that PCI-E needed in the near future, but the chipset and motherboard manufacturers should at least give us a AGP + PCI-E combo product to ease the AGP to PCI-E transition. In fact if they do release it they will be wildly popular, but none of them do. Is it really that hard to put AGP and PCI-E on a same chipset? Don't think so.

 

[Greenman]

Pushing the technology forward is a good thing overall, and for those interested in having the latest and greatest hardware its loads of fun, but it?s not for everyone. I can afford pretty much any hardware I want, but I don?t jump on every new innovation that comes along until I have a need for it, or I see a real benefit from having it. For now, AGP still works fine, and I?ll use it until it won?t do the job anymore.
What would really float my boat would be a hard drive with a sustained throughput at the limit of the sata buss. I?d buy that tomorrow.

 

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
While I do agree that PCI-E needed in the near future, but the chipset and motherboard manufacturers should at least give us a AGP + PCI-E combo product to ease the AGP to PCI-E transition. In fact if they do release it they will be wildly popular, but none of them do. Is it really that hard to put AGP and PCI-E on a same chipset? Don't think so.

Oh they can do it. The problem is that it seems like you have to do it by modding a standard PCI slot into an "AGP Express" slot, so you only get PCI bandwidth on that slot and so the AGP card that's put into that slot winds up being starved for bandwidth.