Why is it the governments job to educate your kid in your religious beliefs?

[techs]

I am sick and tired of the creationist crowd wanting the government to teach their kids their religious beliefs.
Hey, creationists, teach your kids yourself. Or find a church that will do it.
I am not responsible for teaching your kids your religion.
Take some personal responsibility.

 

[Genx87]

k

 

[Corbett]

1/10

 

[sandorski]

10/10

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: sandorski
10/10

69/100

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: techs
I am sick and tired of the creationist crowd wanting the government to teach their kids their religious beliefs.
Hey, creationists, teach your kids yourself. Or find a church that will do it.
I am not responsible for teaching your kids your religion.
Take some personal responsibility.

Why worry about the Lunatic Fringe and those from Kansas?

 

[Robor]

8 / ∞

 

[Xavier434]

This really isn't that big of an issue anymore. There are far too many people which are against this idea including a great many people who are devout Christians. Too many of them prefer to keep this sort of thing in the home and in church.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Let's stick to things like science and math and language and eliminate social and religious engineering of all kinds being taught at school.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Let's stick to things like science and math and language and eliminate social and religious engineering of all kinds being taught at school.

This.

Well, except common values like sharing and things like that. I remember having to sing Christmas carols as a Muslim in elementary school. I found it pretty retarded.

 

[Away]

Originally posted by: techs
I am sick and tired of the creationist crowd wanting the government to teach their kids their religious beliefs.
Hey, creationists, teach your kids yourself. Or find a church that will do it.
I am not responsible for teaching your kids your religion.
Take some personal responsibility.

Are you against teaching them morals and values too? Or should that be left up to the parents who are not getting the job done?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Away

Originally posted by: techs
I am sick and tired of the creationist crowd wanting the government to teach their kids their religious beliefs.
Hey, creationists, teach your kids yourself. Or find a church that will do it.
I am not responsible for teaching your kids your religion.
Take some personal responsibility.

Are you against teaching them morals and values too? Or should that be left up to the parents who are not getting the job done?

In public schools, yes.

 

[Carmen813]

Govt. has no place in religion, and religion has no place in govt. Public education is a government provided service, ergo religion has no place in public education.

Govt. also should not be responisble for teaching morals. Why? Because they are bad at it! Every culture has its own unique moral code, and subscribing to any one of them will discriminate against others.

The sole purpose of education should be to provide the skills necessary to survive in our society and open up opportunities for further learning. It should be a door opener, not a ground for political or religious debate.

So...OMG I AGREE WITH TECHS!

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Away

Originally posted by: techs
I am sick and tired of the creationist crowd wanting the government to teach their kids their religious beliefs.
Hey, creationists, teach your kids yourself. Or find a church that will do it.
I am not responsible for teaching your kids your religion.
Take some personal responsibility.

Are you against teaching them morals and values too? Or should that be left up to the parents who are not getting the job done?

Your statement implies that only the religious can be moral.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Away

Originally posted by: techs
I am sick and tired of the creationist crowd wanting the government to teach their kids their religious beliefs.
Hey, creationists, teach your kids yourself. Or find a church that will do it.
I am not responsible for teaching your kids your religion.
Take some personal responsibility.

Are you against teaching them morals and values too? Or should that be left up to the parents who are not getting the job done?

Your statement implies that only the religious can be moral.

No it doesn't - you're just reading into it. Away is right that a lot of parents (religious or not) "aren't getting the job done" as far as educating their kids, or even preparing them for education by others. This, to me, is why the public education system is failing. The system itself isn't much worse than it was 50 years ago - it's just that the students are. Uninvolved parenting has led to undiscplined, lazy, disruptive kids filling the public schools.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

No it doesn't - you're just reading into it. Away is right that a lot of parents (religious or not) "aren't getting the job done" as far as educating their kids, or even preparing them for education by others. This, to me, is why the public education system is failing. The system itself isn't much worse than it was 50 years ago - it's just that the students are. Uninvolved parenting has led to undiscplined, lazy, disruptive kids filling the public schools.

I agree here. In the end, it is better to have some morals be taught in schools in moderation. That way, those kids with parents who spend too little time teaching morals will at least be set forth in a direction which is acceptable by enough people in the country they live in.

For the kids who might be taught morals by their schools which do not go exactly in line with what the more involved parents are trying to teach, it really shouldn't be an issue. I have come to learn that it is possible to teach your children even at a Pre-K level that not everything that an adult/teacher teaches you is absolutely correct and it is ok to ask others questions. The result has been that my child will often ask his mother and I about certain things he learned in school which are sometimes related to morals. If we disagree with something that he was taught then we express that too him in the way that we feel is best. At that point, he usually goes along with what we tell him, but there is also some room left over for him to make a decision on his own. Obviously, we would draw the line if he were ever taught something which we believe is absurd but that hasn't come close to being a problem yet so we'll cross that bridge when and if it ever occurs. The point is that he is being raised to question things that are taught to him while still being able to trust his parents very much and never to take anything for its face value. As long as he continues to think like that there should be no problem.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Away

Originally posted by: techs
I am sick and tired of the creationist crowd wanting the government to teach their kids their religious beliefs.
Hey, creationists, teach your kids yourself. Or find a church that will do it.
I am not responsible for teaching your kids your religion.
Take some personal responsibility.

Are you against teaching them morals and values too? Or should that be left up to the parents who are not getting the job done?

Your statement implies that only the religious can be moral.

No it doesn't - you're just reading into it. Away is right that a lot of parents (religious or not) "aren't getting the job done" as far as educating their kids, or even preparing them for education by others. This, to me, is why the public education system is failing. The system itself isn't much worse than it was 50 years ago - it's just that the students are. Uninvolved parenting has led to undiscplined, lazy, disruptive kids filling the public schools.

So you want the government to step in it seems and take over a job it should not have any business doing whatsoever. Pretty two faced if you ask me, especially in regard to your implied political leanings via your signature.

PS If you want to address the problem of bad parenting or no parenting then address it by focusing on the core problem itself. You seem to propose is that government remove all burdens from these bad parents and do their job for them. This does nothing to address the heart of the problem but also expands the power of government in areas it should not be dealing with at all. It would be better to promote good parenting by giving rewards to those who do a good job raising their kids and punishing those who do not care about their kids rather then to just releasing them of their responsibilities in life. If these people can't deal with the responsibility of having kids then the goverment should step in to protect their children from them but at they should be forced to make an attemp at parenting instead.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

So you want the government to step in it seems and take over a job it should not have any business doing whatsoever. Pretty two faced if you ask me, especially in regard to your implied political leanings via your signature.

Do I want that to happen? No.

Do I feel it is the lesser of two evils after witnessing first hand on a very regular basis of how little time so many parents take to raise their kids? You betcha. At least in moderation.

I know it sucks, but a lot of families are kinda left without much of a choice in many cases. It also doesn't help that so many families are challenged with the pressures of overtime so much these days. That extra hour per day when both the mother and father work can really make a huge difference when raising a young child. I realize there are ways to work around this sort of thing, but they usually involve working a job which makes less money. I'm very lucky that I found an exception with my job but those are very rare. When you are faced with deciding between that extra hour or two per day which means less time with the kids and being able to afford to live in a better area along with being able to purchase things like quality health care then it all comes to light.


*EDIT*

In response to you edit, I fully agree that attacking the heart of the problem is the right way to go. That is, American needs to be brought back to the days where it was much easier to choose between working so many hours and raising kids in a quality environment. Perhaps there are some creative and brilliant ways to do such a thing by having the government offer rewards to businesses and/or parents that work towards such goals like you are proposing. I'm not sure how exactly to make that a reality, but it is a good idea.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Away

Originally posted by: techs
I am sick and tired of the creationist crowd wanting the government to teach their kids their religious beliefs.
Hey, creationists, teach your kids yourself. Or find a church that will do it.
I am not responsible for teaching your kids your religion.
Take some personal responsibility.

Are you against teaching them morals and values too? Or should that be left up to the parents who are not getting the job done?

Your statement implies that only the religious can be moral.

No it doesn't - you're just reading into it. Away is right that a lot of parents (religious or not) "aren't getting the job done" as far as educating their kids, or even preparing them for education by others. This, to me, is why the public education system is failing. The system itself isn't much worse than it was 50 years ago - it's just that the students are. Uninvolved parenting has led to undiscplined, lazy, disruptive kids filling the public schools.

How about we teach ethics and leave any trace of religion out of the equation? Seems reasonable to me. And by the way, it's not the school's responsibility to be a parent to your child, it's yours. So take some god damned responsibility, will ya?

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Drift3r

So you want the government to step in it seems and take over a job it should not have any business doing whatsoever. Pretty two faced if you ask me, especially in regard to your implied political leanings via your signature.

Do I want that to happen? No.

Do I feel it is the lesser of two evils after witnessing first hand on a very regular basis of how little time so many parents take to raise their kids? You betcha. At least in moderation.

I know it sucks, but a lot of families are kinda left without much of a choice in many cases. It also doesn't help that so many families are challenged with the pressures of overtime so much these days. That extra hour per day when both the mother and father work can really make a huge difference when raising a young child. I realize there are ways to work around this sort of thing, but they usually involve working a job which makes less money. I'm very lucky that I found an exception with my job but those are very rare. When you are faced with deciding between that extra hour or two per day which means less time with the kids and being able to afford to live in a better area along with being able to purchase things like quality health care then it all comes to light.

I much rather reward those who are trying to meet the challenges of raising a family then admonish those who just don't give a crap. If you want to promote positive behavior you should reward it but never reward or remove the responsibilities and consequences for bad behavior in life.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

I much rather reward those who are trying to meet the challenges of raising a family then admonish those who just don't give a crap. If you want to promote positive behavior you should reward it but never reward or remove the responsibilities and consequences for bad behavior in life.

See my edit. We are on the same page here.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
How about we teach ethics and leave any trace of religion out of the equation? Seems reasonable to me. And by the way, it's not the school's responsibility to be a parent to your child, it's yours. So take some god damned responsibility, will ya?

:thumbsup: Exactly. The OP objected to the teaching of religious beliefs in public schools and religion =/= morality. Get back on topic people.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
How about we teach ethics and leave any trace of religion out of the equation? Seems reasonable to me. And by the way, it's not the school's responsibility to be a parent to your child, it's yours. So take some god damned responsibility, will ya?

:thumbsup: Exactly. The OP objected to the teaching of religious beliefs in public schools and religion =/= morality. Get back on topic people.

But if you teach any ethics you're discriminating against a competing ethos.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
How about we teach ethics and leave any trace of religion out of the equation? Seems reasonable to me. And by the way, it's not the school's responsibility to be a parent to your child, it's yours. So take some god damned responsibility, will ya?

:thumbsup: Exactly. The OP objected to the teaching of religious beliefs in public schools and religion =/= morality. Get back on topic people.

But if you teach any ethics you're discriminating against a competing ethos.

It really isn't for the best if people pull the discrimination card for teaching ethics, morals, customs, or courtesies which are widely accepted in the country they live in as long as it is being taught in moderation and is flexible enough to allow the kids to think for themselves. They have the right to reject what is being taught to them should they choose to do so, but they also need to understand that there are consequences for such things. As long as they understand what they can and cannot do as well as what will potentially happen when choosing the path which seems most promising then all is well. Nothing bad will come out of that.

However, I should also note that no religion is widely accepted enough in the US right now to teach it in schools. Yes, Christianity is king right now but the problem is that there are far too many denominations of Christianity all with different views that we cannot even go that route.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
How about we teach ethics and leave any trace of religion out of the equation? Seems reasonable to me. And by the way, it's not the school's responsibility to be a parent to your child, it's yours. So take some god damned responsibility, will ya?

:thumbsup: Exactly. The OP objected to the teaching of religious beliefs in public schools and religion =/= morality. Get back on topic people.

But if you teach any ethics you're discriminating against a competing ethos.

It really isn't for the best if people pull the discrimination card for teaching ethics, morals, customs, or courtesies which are widely accepted in the country they live in as long as it is being taught in moderation and is flexible enough to allow the kids to think for themselves. They have the right to reject what is being taught to them should they choose to do so, but they also need to understand that there are consequences for such things. As long as they understand what they can and cannot do as well as what will potentially happen when choosing the path which seems most promising then all is well. Nothing bad will come out of that.

However, I should also note that no religion is widely accepted enough in the US right now to teach it in schools. Yes, Christianity is king right now but the problem is that there are far too many denominations of Christianity all with different views that we cannot even go that route.

I agree. I was making a blatant attempt at hijacking the thread to get into another one of my religious arguments.

My bad fellas.