Why is it that cops so often kill people?

[JD50]

To the OP -

I was a cop in Maryland in 2003 and I started out at $36k, that's nothing in Maryland. Second, please feel free to go try and disarm someone that is trying to attack you with a knife. Sorry, but my life is worth much more than some drunk trying to stab me. Its pretty obvious that you have never been in a situation even remotely dangerous, so I'll forgive your ignorance and not be too hard on. But please, stop posting this bullshit.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I might be wrong because i've never used a taser myself but isn't that more to calm down a person who is trying to escape rather than to use it on a person who has a deadly weapon in his/her hands?

I never used a taser either, but I believe that you are correct. In the use of force model you always stay one step above the attacker. Seeing as how a knife is a deadly weapon and you can't get any higher than that, you don't bother with less than lethal tools, you go right to your gun.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Muse
I get angry when I hear about cops shooting to kill. My feeling is that they do this way too often.

Dude....what? If a cop shoots, it's to kill. They don't shoot to wound.

As for your story - first off, a 51 year old woman isn't an "old lady", and if she was drunk and flailing a knife around she's an obvious threat. If she came at the police officer with a knife, she gets shot. That's pretty much how the world works, and it's how it SHOULD work.

 

[palehorse]

She had a knife and the cop thought his life was in danger, even for just one moment?

NOBODY is taught to "shoot to wound;" and nobody should be.

You aim center-mass, and you put the b*tch down. She deserved it. end-of-story.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Why is it that cops so often kill people?

They don't, often.

 

[Noobtastic]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
The overwhelming majority of cops end a 20+ year career without EVER firing their weapon on the job...except at the practice range. The media just hypes and sensationalizes the very small amount of incidents that happen each year.

That's basically it.

There hasn't been any plus or minus in officer-related incidents since the introduction of civil services.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
She had a knife and the cop thought his life was in danger, even for just one moment?

NOBODY is taught to "shoot to wound;" and nobody should be.

You aim center-mass, and you put the b*tch down. She deserved it. end-of-story.

You speak irrationally. It may be that you shoot center mass. It may be that was the only reasonable option the cop had. That just means that what was had to be. It does not mean she deserved it. If you've done what you had to do you don't need anyone on whom to assign guilt because you yourself need no additional defense.

 

[M0RPH]

A lot of cops are power-hungry aholes with itchy trigger fingers. Period.

There are many other ways the woman in question could have been subdued without shooting her dead.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
A lot of cops are power-hungry aholes with itchy trigger fingers. Period.

There are many other ways the woman in question could have been subdued without shooting her dead.

name them

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Muse
I get angry when I hear about cops shooting to kill. My feeling is that they do this way too often.

I just saw a news story about a 51 year old woman who was shot to death by a cop last night at 10 PM. This happened in my town on a street that's two blocks from mine. It could have been within a 1/4 mile of me. She was said to be breaking windows in an apartment building and wielding a knife. Is that good reason to shoot her to death? The officer said he shot her in self defense. How lame can he be to have to shoot her to death in order to protect himself from a drunk knife wielding 51 year old woman? Her family defends her saying she had been drinking and was not a threat to anyone. I find it impossible to believe that the police couldn't have acted in a way that didn't result in the woman's death. I hear these stories all the time and they make me want to stay away from police, period.

Because they can get away with killing and injuring people.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: M0RPH
A lot of cops are power-hungry aholes with itchy trigger fingers. Period.

There are many other ways the woman in question could have been subdued without shooting her dead.

name them

Tackling her, tazering her, waiting to see if she is actually any danger to anyone instead of shooting first, asking questions later. Read the story for yourself:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...18/BAELV4EKI.DTL&tsp=1

This is just another case of a cop with an itchy trigger finger. He should be fired, we really don't need cops like this.

Shot in the back, no less.

 

[wwswimming]

when i was looking for an apartment i asked neighbors & 2 police
officers questions about crime in the area. totally gave up on one
apartment because of their answers.

the police had set up a small office next to a 7-11, next to the
street corner where the Norteno's hang out. (apparently, there's
about 3000 gang members here, and an ongoing Norteno-Sudeno
feud involving guns and bullets.)

i asked one of the police there a question. i had to reach in my
left jacket pocket to get a map. when i did that, he reached for
his gun. i said, "easy, man, all i got is a piece of paper."

i can understand cops being trigger-happy and a little jumpy.
i'm not sure if them going overboard & killing people is happening
more often, or if we just hear of it more often because of media
coverage, the Internet, etc.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Tackling her, tazering her, waiting to see if she is actually any danger to anyone instead of shooting first, asking questions later. Read the story for yourself:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...18/BAELV4EKI.DTL&tsp=1

This is just another case of a cop with an itchy trigger finger. He should be fired, we really don't need cops like this.

Shot in the back, no less.

So according to that article, she was making a move towards her daughters with the knife. So now the cop wasn't protecting himself, but other innocent people. What an ass!

Interesting that they only interviewed neighbors who were detached from the incident, either being across the street and unable to see, or having left before it happened. What about the daughters themselves? If the woman WASN'T actually making a move at them and this really was a 'cop with an itchy trigger finger', don't you think they'd be outraged and going to the media?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: M0RPH
A lot of cops are power-hungry aholes with itchy trigger fingers. Period.

There are many other ways the woman in question could have been subdued without shooting her dead.

name them

Tackling her, tazering her, waiting to see if she is actually any danger to anyone instead of shooting first, asking questions later. Read the story for yourself:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...18/BAELV4EKI.DTL&tsp=1

This is just another case of a cop with an itchy trigger finger. He should be fired, we really don't need cops like this.

Shot in the back, no less.

This isnt a Lifetime movie where you spend an hour reasoning. you automatically assume nothing else was tried, and their first response was to shoot...It hink thats BS.

Im not a cop, but JD50 was, and I believe him when he says until youre actually in that situation you have no place to judge.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What was the cop suppose to do? Give her a big hug and tell her it will be alright?

Taser would have been a better idea, but I bet a bunch of people in that town don't want the taser due to brutality issues right?

If it's a choice between murder by handgun or stun by taser, I have to think that 90+++% would choose taser. I just find it unconscionable to shoot a person in that position. For one thing the cop could have backed off and sought help, any kind of help that would have spared the woman's life.

You weren't there. Period. You don't know what the cop could or could not have done or if backing off was an option given the circumstances. So you would be wise to hold your judgment until you know ALL the facts. Hell, how do you know the cop wasn't TRYING to shoot her in the leg but missed and hit her in the chest or something. . .maybe he's a lousy shot. Maybe he had to act with extreme haste. All we know for sure it that however it went down, this stupid drunk "see u in toledo" brought it on herself. Yet another pointless death thanks to our good friend alcohol. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

 

[jonks]

Fix the misleading topic title. Here's a suggestion:
Why is it that cops are killed so often?

 

[RightIsWrong]

I think that it is overblown by miles. I am one of the first to blast a cop when they do something that appears to have stepped over the boundaries. I also like to think that I am just as willing to defend them when the situation warrants it.

The generalization made that cops are shooting people all of the time or tasing people like crazy is hyped by the media and gets almost urban legend status thanks to boards/blogs like this one. If you look at the numbers of police officers, calls responded to and shooting/tasing incidents you will see that it is very likely well below 1%.

The problem with having this discussion is like discussing military crimes. Those that are in or "support" the police or soldiers intentionally or unintentionally twist the argument into a "not all are bad" when that point is never being made. Objectivity is one of the hardest things to hold when you have a vested interest in one side of a debate.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: gentobu
They should have tased her.

+1 or any similar non lethal means of stopping her but if you life is going to end in 2 seconds if you don't draw your gun then have at it.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: gentobu
They should have tased her.

+1 or any similar non lethal means of stopping her but if you life is going to end in 2 seconds if you don't draw your gun then have at it.

and how would a person make that decision? 2 seconds? A little unrealistic. If you have 2 secs to make that desicion you could very likely be in a position to take NO action.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: gentobu
They should have tased her.

+1 or any similar non lethal means of stopping her but if you life is going to end in 2 seconds if you don't draw your gun then have at it.

and how would a person make that decision? 2 seconds? A little unrealistic. If you have 2 secs to make that desicion you could very likely be in a position to take NO action.

It's easy for everyone to second-guess someone's decision when they already know the outcome. And it's also wrong to do so.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Muse
I'm in Berkeley, CA. I saw figures for Oakland patrolmen, as soon as they hang a star on you. It was to entice people to apply, and it was recently and I think it was around $70,000 to start. You have to realize that the cost of living around here is very high. You could obviously live on way less in much of the USA.

That explains the whole thread and your lack of objectivity on the issue. Blame the cop first.

:roll:

I wasn't there, I only saw the 30 second coverage on the 5 O'Clock news. I watched it several times, catching every word and nuance. The story sounds like many many others I've heard wherein a cop shoots someone to death, they are put on paid administrative leave and the incident is under investigation. In general, I suspect that excessive violence was used. This is no exception. I wasn't there, but I figure that if the cop was careful enough the woman wouldn't be dead. I'm not Hollywoodized to the extent that I would imagine for a second that he could or would even think of shooting the weapon out of the woman's hand, like a poster suggested. But I figure the cop could shoot to not kill, say at a leg (thigh). That would stop all but the most psycho threat.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
"so often kill" - you have some stats on use of lethal force?

No. I've seen/heard media coverage of similar circumstances well into double digits. It's my impression. Truth does not always have to be built on a foundation of statistics, you know.

BTW, this did happen 2 blocks from my house.

The cop shot her in the back as she was walking away from him, up the steps to her house. His contention is that she had the kitchen knife in her hand (which witnesses deny) and that she was a threat to her daughters. Her daughters angrily deny this.

 

[Deeko]

Again...cops aren't trained to do that. If you fire your gun, you're fully aware that it will, most likely, kill them.

(ps youve got some big arteries in your leg. You act like getting shot in the leg isn't a serious injury.)

 

[piasabird]

I think the cops should be given more free reign with shoot to kill. They put their life in danger far too much to chase down people who run from the cops. Every time some cop show is on the criminals steal a car and then cause damage to other cars and private property, crash the car and bail out running. I think when this happens the police should have the right to shoot to kill. Why should they have to chase down idiots and put their lives in danger? They should just shoot them down on the spot. There will be one less criminal in jail. If the police were allowed to shoot to kill anyone that resisted arrest, this activity would stop. Either that or all the idiot criminals would be dead.

I am tired of crying liberals wanting to protect criminals. Shoot them all. Cops should be paid a bounty for every criminal they shoot dead.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: gentobu
They should have tased her.

+1 or any similar non lethal means of stopping her but if you life is going to end in 2 seconds if you don't draw your gun then have at it.

and how would a person make that decision? 2 seconds? A little unrealistic. If you have 2 secs to make that desicion you could very likely be in a position to take NO action.

FGS it was just a random number, thank God I didn't type 1 second or I would have really been lambasted.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Muse
I'm in Berkeley, CA. I saw figures for Oakland patrolmen, as soon as they hang a star on you. It was to entice people to apply, and it was recently and I think it was around $70,000 to start. You have to realize that the cost of living around here is very high. You could obviously live on way less in much of the USA.

That explains the whole thread and your lack of objectivity on the issue. Blame the cop first.

:roll:

I wasn't there, I only saw the 30 second coverage on the 5 O'Clock news. I watched it several times, catching every word and nuance. The story sounds like many many others I've heard wherein a cop shoots someone to death, they are put on paid administrative leave and the incident is under investigation. In general, I suspect that excessive violence was used. This is no exception. I wasn't there, but I figure that if the cop was careful enough the woman wouldn't be dead. I'm not Hollywoodized to the extent that I would imagine for a second that he could or would even think of shooting the weapon out of the woman's hand, like a poster suggested. But I figure the cop could shoot to not kill, say at a leg (thigh). That would stop all but the most psycho threat.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
"so often kill" - you have some stats on use of lethal force?

No. I've seen/heard media coverage of similar circumstances well into double digits. It's my impression. Truth does not always have to be built on a foundation of statistics, you know.

as Deeko said, cops dont train to shoot to injure. Also as he said, you hit one of those arteries you would bleed out in less than 7 minutes.