why is it so hard for people from the ghetto to get out of the ghetto?

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Mermaidman

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Change doesn't happen overnight, and the change you're talking about usually takes generations. Yes, generations. There are examples of successful people going from ghetto into upper middle class, or even higher, but most of the times, if it ever happens, it takes multiple generations to get out of it. Typical progression is low wage no steady job > low wage steady job in manufacturing, etc > college degree, lower middle class > advanced college degree salaried job > advanced degree, business owner, etc. That's 3 or 4 generations right there.

Too many things must come into alignment in order for this to happen: parents must be committed to change, work their whole lives for the betterment of their children, they must sacrifice their quality of life to give their children a chance to advance, they have to do a good job raising them to make sure their kids actually take advantage of the opportunity provided to them, and the children must repeat the cycle as well.

The chances of it all working out are simply way too small. All it takes is one bad generation and they're done for, one major illness without health insurance and they're done for, an accident at work, kid not wanting to continue the cycle, etc etc etc...

It's possible, just very very unlikely. A man is a product of the environment he grew up in, change is possible, but requires tons of work and a lot of luck.

That's fucking bullshit. It takes half a generation. Look at asian immigrants. All 1.5 generationers are able to integrate and are relatively successful in their education and professions.

You conveniently forget to mention that Asian immigrants came to this country with a stable cultural and familial identity. Hmm . . . How did most blacks land on our shores? Oh yeah--as fucking SLAVES.

Seriously? The slave card? Who has the advantage here. Poor black born in America speaks english vs poor asian immigrant who can't speak a lick of english? But see my first post way above. I say the main reason is Culture + trapped by entitlements. I was referring to fleshconsumed's statement that it takes many generations to overcome poverty, when clearly immigrants prove it takes half a generation.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: JS80
That's fucking bullshit. It takes half a generation. Look at asian immigrants. All 1.5 generationers are able to integrate and are relatively successful in their education and professions.

Bolded for emphasis. You said it yourself, it takes more than one generation, and even then, the success is relative. Plus consider that US has selective immigration policies and doesn't just let anyone come in. Usually immigrants already hold college degree which is a far cry from being raised in the ghetto.

 

[Svnla]

Paging QueBert...paging QueBert....so he can tell ya'll about how he grew up in da ghetta and da hood...and how he is down with da people......ya'll feel me?



Edit: <<<----- First generation of LEGAL immigrant, came to the US with no shoes, one shirt, one pants, and a small plastic bag and NOT a single penny in the pockets.


Fast forward = BS and MBA degrees from accredited college <not some online schools>, good job and good pay plus own businesses <note the plural>.

If you can't make it in the US, you can't make it anywhere and stop blaming on whiteys/da man/da system/fill in the blank.

/thread

 

[meltdown75]

the ghetto isn't the place, it's the people.

where ever they end up will be the new ghetto. you pickin up what i'm puttin down?

 

[HannibalX]

^^ This is why Houston protested FEMA relocating Katrina "refugees" to their town.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Paging QueBert...paging QueBert....so he can tell ya'll about how he grew up in da ghetta and da hood...and how he is down with da people......ya'll feel me?

hahaha, I was going to say the same thing

I was hoping he could come in here and shed some light on gang documentaries

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: darkxshade

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: Mermaidman

And the 'ghetto parent' thing? It's that vicious cycle: Problem kids-->Bad parents-->problem kids

very true.

Is it though really? IMO I think most parents in ghettos aren't "bad" per se, a lot genuinely do want the best for their children. They do the best they can but unfortunately in most cases parenting has to be sacrificed to work longer hours to pay rent and provide for the family. I believe it all falls on the company you keep. Most kids in ghettos eventually due to a lack of direction join gangs and hang out with the wrong crowds. It's this vicious cycles that prevents them from ever becoming successful. Those who are able to stay out of trouble are the ones that "get out", the education that they receive is the effect, not the cause.

don't get knocked up if you can't afford the kids AND take care of them...

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Mermaidman

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Change doesn't happen overnight, and the change you're talking about usually takes generations. Yes, generations. There are examples of successful people going from ghetto into upper middle class, or even higher, but most of the times, if it ever happens, it takes multiple generations to get out of it. Typical progression is low wage no steady job > low wage steady job in manufacturing, etc > college degree, lower middle class > advanced college degree salaried job > advanced degree, business owner, etc. That's 3 or 4 generations right there.

Too many things must come into alignment in order for this to happen: parents must be committed to change, work their whole lives for the betterment of their children, they must sacrifice their quality of life to give their children a chance to advance, they have to do a good job raising them to make sure their kids actually take advantage of the opportunity provided to them, and the children must repeat the cycle as well.

The chances of it all working out are simply way too small. All it takes is one bad generation and they're done for, one major illness without health insurance and they're done for, an accident at work, kid not wanting to continue the cycle, etc etc etc...

It's possible, just very very unlikely. A man is a product of the environment he grew up in, change is possible, but requires tons of work and a lot of luck.

That's fucking bullshit. It takes half a generation. Look at asian immigrants. All 1.5 generationers are able to integrate and are relatively successful in their education and professions.

You conveniently forget to mention that Asian immigrants came to this country with a stable cultural and familial identity. Hmm . . . How did most blacks land on our shores? Oh yeah--as fucking SLAVES.

This is true. However, I think the point he is making is valid. If the black community really wants change, they can have it, and in not too much time really. It's true that they have one of the wost histories out there as far as abuse goes, however, I don't think that means that a black person can or should point to their history and say "Well, I can't change who I am because my great-great-great-great-great-grandparents where slaves. The world sucks."

If the black community wants "racism" to stop, they need to do the work themselves. 1 million free handouts is going to change anything.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

this forum is the least qualified to answer this type kind of question.

 

[darkxshade]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Mermaidman

You conveniently forget to mention that Asian immigrants came to this country with a stable cultural and familial identity. Hmm . . . How did most blacks land on our shores? Oh yeah--as fucking SLAVES.

Seriously? The slave card? Who has the advantage here. Poor black born in America speaks english vs poor asian immigrant who can't speak a lick of english? But see my first post way above. I say the main reason is Culture + trapped by entitlements. I was referring to fleshconsumed's statement that it takes many generations to overcome poverty, when clearly immigrants prove it takes half a generation.

agreed. Ironically playing the slave card actually makes matter worst, nothing is going to significantly change in these communities with this mentality. You got a sitting president in office for fucks sake.

 

[alkemyst]

The main problem is to escape the ghetto you pretty much usually have to lose all your friends and family once you leave.

That's a hard thing for anyone to do.

The second problem is upbringing...no matter how hard one tries their parent's build their personality/belief system. We have a ton of piss-poor parents out there today.

 

[meltdown75]

:music: i said we movin on up
to the east side
to a deeeeeeluxe apartment
in the skyyyyy :music:

 

[importdistributors]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
from reading all your posts on this forum, you must be very sheltered in life.

Word. Extremely sheltered. Honestly how does it feel not knowing about certain things. It reminds me when i was a kid and remembered the world as a place being fair and just, thinking i could grow up to be anything i wanted to be, and that government and police were there to protect me. (sigh) the good ol days.

 

[spidey07]

1) Promotes being dumb as a good thing
2) Out of wedlock kids by young mothers
3) Don't finish high school
4) Don't know the value of working hard and providing for yourself and family

Those are the biggest ones and they are all self inflicted.

 

[importdistributors]

Originally posted by: swbsam
Here's what I figured out in my short, naive life.

Stupid people are stupid, there's no changing them.

1. Some people live with their parents until they're 30, have deadend retail jobs, or stay in their little town in kansas because they're too stupid to aspire for more
2. Some people stay in their ghetto lives because they're too stupid to aspire fore more
3. Some people aspire to get out of the ghetto/their parents basement, and they do so. Because they're bright. They know better. they work their asses off. They do very well and they deserve props, lifetime tv-movies, and respect
4. Some people have shit luck and shit friends. They get pregnant young and make some mistakes.. Selling drugs to help their mom pay rent..Wanting to do better but their environment prevents them from being otherwise mediocre (take these people as babies and raise them in the suburbs and they may end up as middle management).. Bad choices, but they end up cursed by those mistakes and their environment. These people deserve some compassion.

#4

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: importdistributors

Originally posted by: purbeast0
from reading all your posts on this forum, you must be very sheltered in life.

Word. Extremely sheltered. Honestly how does it feel not knowing about certain things. It reminds me when i was a kid and remembered the world as a place being fair and just, thinking i could grow up to be anything i wanted to be, and that government and police were there to protect me. (sigh) the good ol days.

Dont feel bad. At least you know pickles come from cucumbers.

here

 

[rh71]

I was discussing this the other day because I saw a black soldier had died. I wondered why there aren't more black soldiers as the military gives them a way out in more ways than one.

 

[oiprocs]

Same reason why everything else that should happen doesn't happen.

People are lazy. It ain't genes, it ain't culture, it's none of that. If you can consistently blame someone else for your problems, you neglect to face the truth that you are lazy.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: spidey07
1) Promotes being dumb as a good thing
2) Out of wedlock kids by young mothers
3) Don't finish high school
4) Don't know the value of working hard and providing for yourself and family

Those are the biggest ones and they are all self inflicted.

A society where private business would rather hire a white ex-con over a black person with a clean slate and where businesses will disqualify your resume for having a 'black sounding name' probably doesn't help either

http://findarticles.com/p/arti...is_2_108/ai_n15681393/
http://findarticles.com/p/arti...5/is_2_48/ai_97873146/

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: JS80
That's fucking bullshit. It takes half a generation. Look at asian immigrants. All 1.5 generationers are able to integrate and are relatively successful in their education and professions.

Bolded for emphasis. You said it yourself, it takes more than one generation, and even then, the success is relative. Plus consider that US has selective immigration policies and doesn't just let anyone come in. Usually immigrants already hold college degree which is a far cry from being raised in the ghetto.

Do you know what a 1.5 generationer is? It's someone who immigrated to this country as a child. Hence, the half generation.

Please, even though my parents have college degrees we came here penniless and started in the ghetto. They spoke no english and started off doing odd jobs working long hours.

After half a generation, even a dumb repuglican republican.txt etc like me is making >3x per capita income in my mid 20s.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: spidey07
1) Promotes being dumb as a good thing
2) Out of wedlock kids by young mothers
3) Don't finish high school
4) Don't know the value of working hard and providing for yourself and family

Those are the biggest ones and they are all self inflicted.

A society where private business would rather hire a white ex-con over a black person with a clean slate and where businesses will disqualify your resume for having a 'black sounding name' probably doesn't help either

http://findarticles.com/p/arti...is_2_108/ai_n15681393/
http://findarticles.com/p/arti...5/is_2_48/ai_97873146/

I really hate to agree with you, but this is true. People like to pretend that racism doesn't hold black people back anymore, but it does. A similar study was done with common Spanish names with the same results - having a Spanish name is a big detriment on a resume. Sucks for me - I'm a white guy with a Spanish name. Maybe I should put a picture on my resume?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: spidey07
1) Promotes being dumb as a good thing
2) Out of wedlock kids by young mothers
3) Don't finish high school
4) Don't know the value of working hard and providing for yourself and family

Those are the biggest ones and they are all self inflicted.

it doesn't take smarts to realize any of this.
why are they still struggling?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: spidey07
1) Promotes being dumb as a good thing
2) Out of wedlock kids by young mothers
3) Don't finish high school
4) Don't know the value of working hard and providing for yourself and family

Those are the biggest ones and they are all self inflicted.

A society where private business would rather hire a white ex-con over a black person with a clean slate and where businesses will disqualify your resume for having a 'black sounding name' probably doesn't help either

http://findarticles.com/p/arti...is_2_108/ai_n15681393/
http://findarticles.com/p/arti...5/is_2_48/ai_97873146/

I really hate to agree with you, but this is true. People like to pretend that racism doesn't hold black people back anymore, but it does. A similar study was done with common Spanish names with the same results - having a Spanish name is a big detriment on a resume. Sucks for me - I'm a white guy with a Spanish name. Maybe I should put a picture on my resume?

change your name?

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: JS80
Do you know what a 1.5 generationer is? It's someone who immigrated to this country as a child. Hence, the half generation.

Please, even though my parents have college degrees we came here penniless and started in the ghetto. They spoke no english and started off doing odd jobs working long hours.

After half a generation, even a dumb repuglican republican.txt etc like me is making >3x per capita income in my mid 20s.

Same, except without the college education.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
this forum is the least qualified to answer this type kind of question.

Agreed. Despite this, I'll throw in my 2 cents from what I observed while my wife taught 9th grade math in the Bronx.

1. The education system in the inner cities is a joke. To say "it's not the best, it's free and available" is a gross simplification. There are a few programs that get it right (like KIPP) and there are handfuls of dedicated and gifted teachers who work hard for their kids, but there are also many more jaded teachers and administrators who spend more time dealing with bureaucratic bullshit and fighting changes to their job descriptions than they do working on fixing their broken schools.

2. It's funny to see so many well-to-do suburbanites point the figure at teen pregnancy without realizing how little sex education there is in inner city schools. Most kids have no idea what the risks are or how to protect themselves.

3. There are many examples of bad parenting, but there are parents who care a lot about their kids. Sometimes it is difficult to be as involved as a parent needs to be when you need to work two jobs to feed your kids.

4. These kids have the odds stacked against them all the time. My wife had a student who was living in a homeless shelter, and another one of her top students started failing when he had to get a fulltime job after his father became injured.

There are multiple layers to the problem, but the biggest is the educational system. It's not an issue of money (NYC spends more per student than any other school district and it's still screwed up) but an issue of how that money is spent.