Why is it so difficult for people to get mental help

[Hayabusa Rider]

TexasHiker, you are spot on. Some mental illnesses do not call for a doctor's visit every six months. Once you have made several visits tweaking the medicine and dosage, if a person feels level then there is no need to go back on such a frequent basis.

Many people who are fully functional professionals take anti-depressants or other neuro drugs, and have been doing so on a long term basis. It makes no sense to require them to keep revisiting a doctor to get refills (especially since most general practitioners do not have the in depth understanding of this therapeutic area to make such visits productive. Most of the time it's "Feeling ok? Good.")

I don't know how you can say he's spot on. I'd have to have a detailed medical history before I could give an opinion in his case. "There are many" doesn't apply to individuals. Everyone and every situation is different. I'd run away from any practitioner who treated me based on an average.

 

[ZaneNBK]

Prescription runs out, voices come back. Guy goes to pharmacy to get his medicine, is told prescription has run out and he needs to go to the doctor. Voices tell him, screw going to the doctor, go to the gun store and lets teach those bastards a lesson.

Your prescription bottle tells you how many refills you have left. If it says zero, set up an appointment with your doctor or call your doctor's office and get another prescription. Unless it's a painkiller, most of the time a good doctor's office will just let you come pick up an updated prescription free of charge if you call in and ask for it.

If you run out of meds and have no refills left, it's usually your fault. If someone isn't capable of managing that then they should ask for help from family, friends or their doctor.

 

[JEDIYoda]

TexasHiker, you are spot on. Some mental illnesses do not call for a doctor's visit every six months. Once you have made several visits tweaking the medicine and dosage, if a person feels level then there is no need to go back on such a frequent basis.

Many people who are fully functional professionals take anti-depressants or other neuro drugs, and have been doing so on a long term basis. It makes no sense to require them to keep revisiting a doctor to get refills (especially since most general practitioners do not have the in depth understanding of this therapeutic area to make such visits productive. Most of the time it's "Feeling ok? Good.")

actually it makes a lot of sense. Quite a few of the anti psychotic drugs can do terrible things to your kidneys and other organs that you need to have blood work done at least once a year....

 

[Acanthus]

Yeah, people abuse stuff like anti-depressants all the time.
Just think about it for a moment, if an anti-depressant can take a depressed person and make them feel normal, what would it do to a person without depression?

Make you want to kill yourself.

I'm not kidding.

It doesn't even come close to working that way. You aren't treating depression with Heroin.

Look up Seratonin Syndrome. Taking an antidepressant when you don't need it is extremely high risk, and you don't get a "buzz" from it either.

 

[shortylickens]

Supply/demand.
Not enough professionals.

 

[Rio Rebel]

I don't know how you can say he's spot on. I'd have to have a detailed medical history before I could give an opinion in his case. "There are many" doesn't apply to individuals. Everyone and every situation is different. I'd run away from any practitioner who treated me based on an average.

In all honesty, I read his initial post and agreed. He later clarified that he was talking about psychotic and other extreme illnesses, and I'm not on board with that position.

My comment was meant to express that for people with treatable, mild to moderate cases of depression, it is pointless to require so many frequent doctor visits to get prescription refills.

 

[Texashiker]

If you run out of meds and have no refills left, it's usually your fault.

Lets take the naval yard shooter for an example. He reported hearing voices, and for some unknown reason he took a shotgun and started killing people.

So what if someone runs out of their medicine. However, someone else, or multiple people will be paying the price.

We need to get past this "its your problem, not mine" mentality, because all of society pays the price.

My comment was meant to express that for people with treatable, mild to moderate cases of depression, it is pointless to require so many frequent doctor visits to get prescription refills.

When I go back to the doctor I have to reexplain my families history. The doctor usually does not remember, may not have entered everything in the notes,,, I have to go through the whole spill. My mom even made me a list of my extended and immediate families history so I would not forget to tell the doctor anything.

Just to be clear I do not want to hurt anyone. My meds keep me level so I do not have extreme mood swings.

 

[WilliamM2]

I don't see how this is different from any other prescriptions. I take medication for kidney stones, I have to go to a Nephrologist every six months for refills, and also do some very expensive urine tests. It seems only a specialist will work for any medical condition these days. Since my medication hasn't changed since this all started 19 years ago, it seems excessive as well. Not like these drugs can be abused or anything.

Most people I know that are in pain, or take meds for mental conditions, have to go in every thirty days. And they are asked the same questions every time. I don't think your doctor doesn't remember, or write it down. He's seeing if you give consistent answers, and checking for drug seeking behaviour.

 

[Juddog]

Ultimately when we can get to the point where a computer can monitor your hormone / neutoransmitter levels (e.g. seratonin) and adjust them on the fly, then we'll need to have continued doctors visits to make sure that the levels are on track.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Not difficult as in finding a doctor, but difficult as in having limited refills, needing health insurance, price of the doctors visit, price of the medicine,,,.

<confession>

Because my family has a history rich in mental disorders, alcoholism and even suicide I take medicine to keep me level. Without the medicine I had a doctor tell me I was borderline bi-polar. This is something I have been dealing with since the 1990s. I know I have a problem so I take medicine.

</confession>

Why should someone, or anyone else who has a family history, have to keep going back to the doctor ever 6 months to get their prescription refilled?

If I did not have health insurance I would have a heck of a time getting my meds. If you do not have health insurance, a lot of doctors will not see you.

Then there are the price of the meds. If someone did not have some kind of prescription assistance, how are they supposed to afford their meds?

As the people who try to pass gun laws say, if we can prevent one death, isn't it worth it?

If we can prevent one suicide, one murder, one mass shooting,,,, shouldn't we as a society be focused on mental health reform?

Why aren't we as a culture having a serious debate on the need for mental health reform?

Ok - first and foremost I have to ask this: As a mental patient, WHAT kind of doctor is THE doctor you're supposed to go to for mental disorders?

We actually have a roommate that keeps drinking herself drunk every other day while chain smoking. It's getting pathetic and annoying for us to live with. But I'm curious on your response: What is the correct or "normal" type of doctor to see? I'll comment more later...

 

[Juddog]

Ok - first and foremost I have to ask this: As a mental patient, WHAT kind of doctor is THE doctor you're supposed to go to for mental disorders?

We actually have a roommate that keeps drinking herself drunk every other day while chain smoking. It's getting pathetic and annoying for us to live with. But I'm curious on your response: What is the correct or "normal" type of doctor to see? I'll comment more later...

Your roommate's "medicine" should be the lack of any alcohol for 10 years, after that her brain should return to normal.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Your roommate's "medicine" should be the lack of any alcohol for 10 years, after that her brain should return to normal.

Roommate aside - I'm even asking OP - what is deemed the appropriate doctor for this stuff? I'll comment more once someone answers. I haven't had any "mental" problems like the one's being discussed here, so I honestly wouldn't know.

 

[sm625]

Because they only prescribe drugs that make you go shoot up schools or drown your children as soon as you miss a dose. The industry is designed around getting you hooked on these profitable drugs, rather than getting to the root cause which is usually a trauma which contains blocked memories that cause cognitive dissonance and anxiety when those memories are accidentally accessed. For example, lets say you got stung by a bee while a UPS truck was driving by and you were looking at the UPS truck right as you got stung and then you tripped and fell off the porch and broke your leg and then your wife cheated on you while you were stuck in bed in a cast. 2 years later you could see a UPS truck drive by and it could cause you all sorts of psychological ill effects ranging from disorientation to paranoia to actually feeling like you just got stung. The proper course of action is not to take some big pharma death $$ concoction, but simply to bring the memory out of your subconscious so that you no longer experience these unwanted responses or disorientations. That way when you see the UPS truck go by you now have a good idea why you are suddenly feeling nausea or disorientation or even feel like you're getting stung. Just knowing this simple thing can be hugely beneficial. You still have to deal with the cheating wife, but it is much easier without that cloud of anxiety that gets associated with her actions. To follow some bought off medical hack and take his poison pill is just beyond sadistically stupid, and only goes to show the misplaced faith and sheer lack of adult judgement.

 

[Texashiker]

Ok - first and foremost I have to ask this: As a mental patient, WHAT kind of doctor is THE doctor you're supposed to go to for mental disorders?

I honestly do not know.

 

[ZaneNBK]

Ok - first and foremost I have to ask this: As a mental patient, WHAT kind of doctor is THE doctor you're supposed to go to for mental disorders?

Psychiatrist. They are an MD or DO and trained for treating mental disorders. They can prescribe the necessary medication. However, if the medication needs to have occasional blood testing to check for kidney or liver issues, as some do, you might need to visit a GP every now and then to get the blood work done.

 

[ZaneNBK]

Lets take the naval yard shooter for an example. He reported hearing voices, and for some unknown reason he took a shotgun and started killing people.

So what if someone runs out of their medicine. However, someone else, or multiple people will be paying the price.

We need to get past this "its your problem, not mine" mentality, because all of society pays the price.

I said it's usually your fault if you run out of medication, and it is. If your psychiatrist feels you need to be monitored to ensure you're taking your medication then they should do something to make sure that's done. GP's generally shouldn't be prescribing these types of medication without at least the involvement of a psychiatrist.

If there is a good probability a patient could hurt someone if they go off their medication then they should be monitored in some way. Being placed in a mental health facility would be the extreme end of that.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Because they only prescribe drugs that make you go shoot up schools or drown your children as soon as you miss a dose. The industry is designed around getting you hooked on these profitable drugs, rather than getting to the root cause which is usually a trauma which contains blocked memories that cause cognitive dissonance and anxiety when those memories are accidentally accessed. For example, lets say you got stung by a bee while a UPS truck was driving by and you were looking at the UPS truck right as you got stung and then you tripped and fell off the porch and broke your leg and then your wife cheated on you while you were stuck in bed in a cast. 2 years later you could see a UPS truck drive by and it could cause you all sorts of psychological ill effects ranging from disorientation to paranoia to actually feeling like you just got stung. The proper course of action is not to take some big pharma death $$ concoction, but simply to bring the memory out of your subconscious so that you no longer experience these unwanted responses or disorientations. That way when you see the UPS truck go by you now have a good idea why you are suddenly feeling nausea or disorientation or even feel like you're getting stung. Just knowing this simple thing can be hugely beneficial. You still have to deal with the cheating wife, but it is much easier without that cloud of anxiety that gets associated with her actions. To follow some bought off medical hack and take his poison pill is just beyond sadistically stupid, and only goes to show the misplaced faith and sheer lack of adult judgement.

Not only is your opinion ignorant as hell, it's also dangerous. People like you who try to erode confidence in doctors and pharmaceutical researches make the world a worse place.

Of course there are people out there who are willing to put profit ahead of people, but those are far, far outweighed by the people who spend hours of effort and diligence making sure that the information and the medicine is accurate.

 

[xj0hnx]

We actually have a roommate that keeps drinking herself drunk every other day while chain smoking. It's getting pathetic and annoying for us to live with. But I'm curious on your response: What is the correct or "normal" type of doctor to see? I'll comment more later...

Get her to a rehab that has a detox, then AA meetings.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Psychiatrist. They are an MD or DO and trained for treating mental disorders. They can prescribe the necessary medication. However, if the medication needs to have occasional blood testing to check for kidney or liver issues, as some do, you might need to visit a GP every now and then to get the blood work done.

Ok - thats what I figured the answer would be - so here is my next question:

As someone that has epilepsy (and has for quite some time) why is it deemed a psychiatrist is the appropriate doctor for a "mental disorder"? As someone that studies the brain... and nothing but the brain - why isn't a neurologist the one to treat these? I mean, if it's a mental disorder, than you are DEEMING it as something defective with the brain, afterall?

 

[Spungo]

I can't see giving someone, particularly someone with mental health issues, an unlimited amount of drugs. Some of those are abused and could be sold on the street etc.

Oh shit, antipsychotic drugs ending up in the hands of psychotic criminals? The horrors! It might drop the violent crime rate, leading to police layoffs, leading to reduced union contributions, leading to reduced bribes to democratic candidates!

 

[ZaneNBK]

Ok - thats what I figured the answer would be - so here is my next question:

As someone that has epilepsy (and has for quite some time) why is it deemed a psychiatrist is the appropriate doctor for a "mental disorder"? As someone that studies the brain... and nothing but the brain - why isn't a neurologist the one to treat these? I mean, if it's a mental disorder, than you are DEEMING it as something defective with the brain, afterall?

This article covers that question: http://thesocietypages.org/socimage...sychiatry-the-social-production-of-knowledge/

Basically (from the article):

The World Health Organization (WHO) defines neurological disorders as physical diseases of the nervous system and psychiatric illnesses as disorders that manifest as abnormalities of thought, feeling, or behaviour. In fact, however, there are longstanding unresolved debates on the exact relationship between neurology and psychiatry, including whether there can be any clear division between the two fields.

So basically if have a disorder that directly affects your behavior, thoughts or emotions you go to a psychiatrist. If you have a disorder/disability that presents primarily physically, such as epilepsy, you go to a neurologist. As the article points out there is some cross-over and some of those such as Alzheimer's and dementia are usually treated by a gerentologist and/or neurologist. I believe that's because those diseases are caused by physical changes/degradation of the brain and not chemical imbalances.

 

[Spungo]

I did not know depression medicine made you high?

Some of them can. I've been taking sertraline for several years and I get a flood of awesome ideas if I take 12 of them in one day. I decided to go back to college while high on sertraline. That was one of the best decisions of my life. I also opened 401k and roth IRA accounts then linked them to my bank account while high on sertraline. I got the idea to buy a condo while high on sertraline. Most of the finance graphs and excel sheets I did were inspired by sertraline highs. Sertraline also gave me the idea of keeping journals for certain things. I have a journal filled with stock predictions; I have a journal filled with financial thoughts, numbers, and projections; I have a journal about personal affairs.
Fluoxetine was a good one too. Fluoxetine made things feel soft. I would play with my cat for hours while watching documentaries.

Because they only prescribe drugs that make you go shoot up schools or drown your children as soon as you miss a dose.

This is exactly why politicians try to outlaw mental health treatment. Like it or not, death is extremely profitable and can be used to push political agendas. Want to ban guns? Make drugs hard to get and unreasonably expensive then wait for severely depressed male teens to go on a shooting rampage (depressed females usually hurt themselves). Want to pass bullshit like the patriot act or the enabling act? Wait for a severely depressed man to blow up something like the federal building in oklahoma city, or that WTC attack in the 90's. Need a reason to increase the police budget? Prevent deeply troubled kids from having access to antidepressants or antipsychotics then wait for them to snap. Need a reason to expand the private prison industry? Same thing.

 

[xj0hnx]

Right.
Most drugs of that nature change the flow of neuro-transmitter chemicals and/or receptors in the brain.

For someone who is having problems with not enough of either the drugs can boost one or the other so that the person taking them feels more level. But if a person who isn't having an issue takes them it can give them a euphoric high.

That's not how it works. Depending on the drug,many are designed to work over a period of time, and have zero "recreational" value. Others can change the chemistry in the brain that doesn't need it and actually lead to hypomania followed by depression, violence, suicide, etc, while others will do nothing except give you the side effects.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Get her to a rehab that has a detox, then AA meetings.

Sorry, I'm not playing that game - she is in massive denial, in addition to just stupid. Everytime she drinks she ends up crying and bawwing all over the place trying to seek human attention. If anything is her mental disorder, it's attention seeking like she is still in high school (except she is 40).

Denial plays a huge part. Said she has tried AA meetings and there are people there that drink 2 bottles of whiskey a day. Soooo apparently her 4-6 beers isn't an issue even though she is fall on the floor drunk after.

 

[xj0hnx]

Sorry, I'm not playing that game - she is in massive denial, in addition to just stupid. Everytime she drinks she ends up crying and bawwing all over the place trying to seek human attention. If anything is her mental disorder, it's attention seeking like she is still in high school (except she is 40).

Denial plays a huge part. Said she has tried AA meetings and there are people there that drink 2 bottles of whiskey a day. Soooo apparently her 4-6 beers isn't an issue even though she is fall on the floor drunk after.

Just trying AA will do nothing, it is a process, and a lifelong commitment for the alcoholic. That sounds about right, acting like she's emotionally still 18, when did she start drinking?

If you "aren't playing that game" you might as well kick her out, psych doctors aren't going to be able to do shit for her.