Why is immigration even an issue?

[Jhhnn]

"Should" is a different standard than "legally able to." If they're born here then we can't legally force their deportation but that isn't a reason not to enforce the laws against their parents. If that means that you get geographically separated from your children because you chose to break the law and then chose not to take them with you, then you and the child live with those decisions.

As a practical matter, you deny American citizen children the right to grow up in their own country & try to weasel your way around actually saying so. Undocumented immigrants simply will not leave their citizen children behind & we all know it.

 

[Jhhnn]

What does that solve? Does everyone get approved? Who gets turned away and why?

I'm all for looking at birthright citizenship, we're the only Country in the World that does it. Kind of like healthcare we're the only Country with our shitty set up.
I will say maybe birthright Citizenship is why we are the best in the world at assimilating people but maybe I'm wrong its a good discussion to have.

That's not entirely accurate-

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...p-only-about-30-other-countries-offer-birthr/

 

[glenn1]

As a practical matter, you deny American citizen children the right to grow up in their own country & try to weasel your way around actually saying so. Undocumented immigrants simply will not leave their citizen children behind & we all know it.

If parents extorted money or committed tax fraud do their children have a "right" to grow up in the house their criminal parents bought with their ill-gotten gain?

 

[piasabird]

When dogs and cats are no longer wanted or they are too old or ill, they are put to sleep in a humane manner.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If parents extorted money or committed tax fraud do their children have a "right" to grow up in the house their criminal parents bought with their ill-gotten gain?

Donald Trumps 10(?) year old son could be "confiscated"?

 

[MajinCry]

"Should" is a different standard than "legally able to." If they're born here then we can't legally force their deportation but that isn't a reason not to enforce the laws against their parents. If that means that you get geographically separated from your children because you chose to break the law and then chose not to take them with you, then you and the child live with those decisions.

Now now, don't start trying to weasel around. I'm inquiring about opinions, not law.

 

[MajinCry]

What does that solve? Does everyone get approved? Who gets turned away and why?

I'm all for looking at birthright citizenship, we're the only Country in the World that does it. Kind of like healthcare we're the only Country with our shitty set up.
I will say maybe birthright Citizenship is why we are the best in the world at assimilating people but maybe I'm wrong its a good discussion to have.

I wouldn't say the US is the best at assimilating people. Ya guys still fuck over the Native Americans 'n' all that. Also, there are the stats:

Source: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/aic.pdf

I think the award fer decent racial integration goes to Iceland; vaguely remember reading that those lads have little racism 'n' racial crimes 'n' such and so, whilst having a decent amount of racial diversity.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

That's not entirely accurate-

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...p-only-about-30-other-countries-offer-birthr/

One of two developed countries, and reaching the other would would require trekking through us anyways.

 

[glenn1]

Now now, don't start trying to weasel around. I'm inquiring about opinions, not law.

I thought my opinion was crystal clear. Hell yes the U.S. born children of illegal immigrants should accompany them upon deportation for moral and social reasons and I find personally feel any parents who indicated a desire to have their children remain without them aren't fit to be parents anyway.

That being said if the children are citizens I'm okay with them staying but they would need to assert that desire themselves independent of any input from the parents, *and* have someone who can assume legal guardianship for them until age of majority, *and* formally forego any special claims to allow their parents to stay now or seek them to gain entry again via anything but legal means and under special scrutiny they obey all immigration laws.

 

[MajinCry]

I thought my opinion was crystal clear. Hell yes the U.S. born children of illegal immigrants should accompany them upon deportation for moral and social reasons and I find personally feel any parents who indicated a desire to have their children remain without them aren't fit to be parents anyway.

That being said if the children are citizens I'm okay with them staying but they would need to assert that desire themselves independent of any input from the parents, *and* have someone who can assume legal guardianship for them until age of majority, *and* formally forego any special claims to allow their parents to stay now or seek them to gain entry again via anything but legal means and under special scrutiny they obey all immigration laws.

So seeing how the US was founded by means of genocide of the Native Americans and subsequently taking their land, you will agree that the vast majority of Americans should be deported back to Europe, Africa and wherever else their predecessors came from, right? Especially since it was illegals that usurped the country from the Native Americans.

 

[realibrad]

You're dodging & obfuscating all over the map. We have ~10M undocumented immigrants in this country & their American citizen children as well. Do we honor our obligations to our own citizen children, or not? It's just that simple.

The rest of it falls into place when you quit dancing around the right of American citizens to grow up in their own county.

I'm not, you are just reading what I write through a lens that I am like TH. I did not say children born here should be forced to leave. I said that children are more expensive than adults because children cannot work. Read my statement again, because I never called for deporting children if the parents were illegal. I said the parents should be deported. I will add that if the children are born here, but the parents are not, then they can leave the children to the state if they want them to stay. If not, then the children should go back with the parents, but should remain a citizen of the US. That should cover your dumb point of obligation.

As for the people already here. Last time we gave amnesty it did nothing to stop immigration. Doing it again does nothing to change the incentives. What we are actually doing is play a sick game with people by which if they are able to make it here, they get to be legal if they hide long enough in the shadows.

The Left and the Right are not going to change anything, because politically there is nothing to gain for either side.

 

[glenn1]

So seeing how the US was founded by means of genocide of the Native Americans and subsequently taking their land, you will agree that the vast majority of Americans should be deported back to Europe, Africa and wherever else their predecessors came from, right? Especially since it was illegals that usurped the country from the Native Americans.

Feel free to deport whoever you can find alive that broke the immigration laws in place from Native Americans at the time. Then next you can work on reparations for anyone who was enslaved that is still alive.
Honestly dude do you even give a fvck about our immigration laws or do you support totally open borders? The latter that's fine it just means that we can hired no longer illegal and forget about all those welfare people and their f****** problems. Leave them to rot and not the immigrants do all the work. Maybe if we're lucky our welfare recipients will immigrate to other countries.

 

[MajinCry]

Feel free to deport whoever you can find alive that broke the immigration laws in place from Native Americans at the time. Then next you can work on reparations for anyone who was enslaved that is still alive.
Honestly dude do you even give a fvck about our immigration laws or do you support totally open borders? The latter that's fine it just means that we can hired no longer illegal and forget about all those welfare people and their f****** problems. Leave them to rot and not the immigrants do all the work. Maybe if we're lucky our welfare recipients will immigrate to other countries.

And this is where the bigotry appears. First you clarified that illegals and their descendants should be deported. Now you say that only first generation illegals should be deported. Funny how that works, what with most Americans being descendants of illegals.

Keep in mind, that this is your logic and opinion being applied consistently, rather than with convenient bias and racism. Deport all illegals and their kin, except for us who are the kin of illegals because that would be us acting on our principles.

That about sums it up.

 

[Danwar]

Ill give you the point of view of an outsider.

Im a Mexican , born in Mexico , living in Mexico, who has never even considered the idea of going into the US for anything other than a vacation.

On the point of anchor babies, most of the people i have talked to they all agree that children should be with their parents , if the parent broke the law, then he should be deported and their children with them (but they should keep their US citizenship, so when they're 18 if they want to go back to the US they should be able to do so LEGALLY).

Most of my fellow countrymen agree , if trump wants to build a wall, let him , it won't change a thing. If you truly believe that mexicans a 'pouring' through the border then you are letting yourselves be blinded by anti-immigration propaganda. Most of illegals are people who enter the US legally but overstay their VISAs (much easier & cheaper to apply for a VISA) and then once accross just stay there than it is to risk death by crossing illegaly.

Also , you guys realize that you have thousands of Asian illegal immigrants? they did not cross from mexico you know.... are you gonna build a sea wall? you do realize that mexicans have boats too ? and its a much shorter ride from our coast to yours than it is from China's. if you build a wall across the land border all the cartels have to do is do what the chinese do to bring illegals to your country.

Also, i've seen many statistics showing that the net immigration from Mexico to the US has been in the negatives for the last few years , which means that more mexicans are going back into mexico rather than leaving it. If you build a wall you're just as likely helping to keeping them there.

 

[brycejones]

Ill give you the point of view of an outsider.

Im a Mexican , born in Mexico , living in Mexico, who has never even considered the idea of going into the US for anything other than a vacation.

On the point of anchor babies, most of the people i have talked to they all agree that children should be with their parents , if the parent broke the law, then he should be deported and their children with them (but they should keep their US citizenship, so when they're 18 if they want to go back to the US they should be able to do so LEGALLY).

Most of my fellow countrymen agree , if trump wants to build a wall, let him , it won't change a thing. If you truly believe that mexicans a 'pouring' through the border then you are letting yourselves be blinded by anti-immigration propaganda. Most of illegals are people who enter the US legally but overstay their VISAs (much easier & cheaper to apply for a VISA) and then once accross just stay there than it is to risk death by crossing illegaly.

Also , you guys realize that you have thousands of Asian illegal immigrants? they did not cross from mexico you know.... are you gonna build a sea wall? you do realize that mexicans have boats too ? and its a much shorter ride from our coast to yours than it is from China's. if you build a wall across the land border all the cartels have to do is do what the chinese do to bring illegals to your country.

Also, i've seen many statistics showing that the net immigration from Mexico to the US has been in the negatives for the last few years , which means that more mexicans are going back into mexico rather than leaving it. If you build a wall you're just as likely helping to keeping them there.

shhh.....we don't need no facts in the discussion.

 

[MrSquished]

Why not instead of going after a larger number of illegal immigrants that we would have to deport, why not just target all the business owners that hire them? Without demand there would be no supply. Would be easier and cheaper. What say you?

 

[JSt0rm]

What this is really about is white people freaking out they won't be the majority anymore.

 

[brycejones]

Why not instead of going after a larger number of illegal immigrants that we would have to deport, why not just target all the business owners that hire them? Without demand there would be no supply. Would be easier and cheaper. What say you?

Nope that would be attacking the job creators. Can't do that, remember they need less regulation and lower taxes so the wealth can continue to trickle down.

What this is really about is white people freaking out they won't be the majority anymore.

shhh....

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why not instead of going after a larger number of illegal immigrants that we would have to deport, why not just target all the business owners that hire them? Without demand there would be no supply. Would be easier and cheaper. What say you?

No Politician would support that because the vast majority of businesses hiring illegals are small businesses and people are too sensitive to fining small businesses to closure.

 

[MrSquished]

No Politician would support that because the vast majority of businesses hiring illegals are small businesses and people are too sensitive to fining small businesses to closure.

I think it's probably a mix of small and medium sized businesses. But forget what politicians would do, I'm more curious with the opinions of the posters here. Especially those who are angry at the 'criminal' element of illegals. It's also criminal to hire them last time I checked.

 

[Jhhnn]

If parents extorted money or committed tax fraud do their children have a "right" to grow up in the house their criminal parents bought with their ill-gotten gain?

Apples & Some rather desperate aardvarks. Illegal entry is handled as a civil rather than a criminal matter. Undocumented immigrants are not criminals.

You engage in some rather self serving attributions of original sin to American children as if they've done something wrong. Or are you merely attempting to renounce the Constitution & the common decency on which it is based?

 

[Zaap]

blather

Your whole "because native americans" bullshit is fucking tired.

Plenty of people immigrate here legally and have nothing what-so-ever to do with what was done to native Americans (as if that was a valid, non-retarded argument in the first place in the current immigration debate.) Get your head out of your ass and actually into the 21st century already before chiming in with that tired old bullshit.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I think it's probably a mix of small and medium sized businesses. But forget what politicians would do, I'm more curious with the opinions of the posters here. Especially those who are angry at the 'criminal' element of illegals. It's also criminal to hire them last time I checked.

When its more than a handful of employees there are too many to rat them out its usually something like two Brothers who do painting, spring & summer are busy so they hire 8 guys hanging around outside a home depot to help out.

 

[ivwshane]

No Politician would support that because the vast majority of businesses hiring illegals are small businesses and people are too sensitive to fining small businesses to closure.

That's funny because a bi partisan bill in the senate was passed that made e-verify mandatory. You know about e-verify right? The program that helps employers determine if someone is here legally. Yeah, that bill would make its use a requirement.

https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...44-understanding-2013-senate-immigration-bill

So I'm not sure what you mean by "no politician would support that".

 

[ivwshane]

Your whole "because native americans" bullshit is fucking tired.

Plenty of people immigrate here legally and have nothing what-so-ever to do with what was done to native Americans (as if that was a valid, non-retarded argument in the first place in the current immigration debate.) Get your head out of your ass and actually into the 21st century already before chiming in with that tired old bullshit.

There are also plenty of Muslims who are in this country legal and who have nothing to do with terrorism and you support a candidate that wishes to paint with broad stokes.

You are right, it's tired old bullshit! So why do you support a candidate who is using it?