-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
why is diesel not popular in the us?
Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
I know for a fact Mercedes & VW beg to differ...
Pliablemoose
Lifer
I think part of it too is that we have crap diesel here. It's pretty nasty compared to what Europe has. That's part of the reason why European car manufacturers don't bring over some of the higher performance diesel engines - the diesel fuel here in the states is horrid in quality compared to what the engines are used to using.
freegeekss
Member
StageLeft
No Lifer
Nation wide average gas prices are $1.57 I heard this morning. CHeapest I can get gas for is about $1.51 or maybe $1.55. I saw a place on the way to work that had it for $1.55 with the diesel at $1.45, so at the moment at least diesel is cheaper. It doesn't follow the same waves, I think, as regular gasoline in terms of price spikes/declines.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
Diesel prices tend to follow the heating season, with much of the North, particularly the Northeast using heating oil in the winter, prices tend to go up in the winter & drop in the summer, sort of inversely related to gas prices, where gas goes up during prime vacation time...
It's not exactly that simple or there'd be a lot more folks made rich by trading oil futures, but they tend to follow those rules.
I'm still looking to add another diesel to my 2, really want to see what the Liberty TDI's mpg figures will be, it it's ~30+mpg I want one, suspect with a 30% boost the real world figures will be about 23-25mpg. Plan B is to dig up another TDI VW, I'm very impressed with my wife's Golf.
It's not exactly that simple or there'd be a lot more folks made rich by trading oil futures, but they tend to follow those rules.
I'm still looking to add another diesel to my 2, really want to see what the Liberty TDI's mpg figures will be, it it's ~30+mpg I want one, suspect with a 30% boost the real world figures will be about 23-25mpg. Plan B is to dig up another TDI VW, I'm very impressed with my wife's Golf.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
<----- Has always secretly wanted to lightly rice a diesel VW, or put a diesel engine in a convertable VW (gas masks would have to be an option😀)
my ex g/f has a 1998 vw jetta TDI diesel car
1. starts up fine in the cold weather, even has a "starter defroster" mechanism of some sort
2. gets around 42mpg (close to 50 on a trip) so i don't care if diesel is 60 cents more its still cheaper than a lot of cars out there (SUVs are everywhere, cmon now)
3. she bought the car with california emissions, so its a sign that at least one company (VW) is making an attempt to do something about pollution
Triumph
Lifer
NO NO NO, he absolutely is not "right." TORQUE IS NOT POWER, PEOPLE. I am absolutely, 100%, unequivocably not wrong on this. Torque is twisting force, a force applied at a right angle to a moment arm. Force x distance, which also has the same units as work. Work applied over a set amount of time is power.
If something weighs 10 pounds, it takes 10 pounds of force to lift it. If you want to lift it 10 feet, that is 10 lbs x 10 ft = 100 lb-ft of work. (notice the units, they are the same as torque) Power comes into the equation when you want to do that work in a set amount of time. Power = work/time. To raise that 10 lbs a distance of 10 feet in 10 seconds requires more horsepower than to do the same thing in 20 seconds, but it requires the same amount of work (torque)
You'd think that the name alone, "horsepower", would be enough to show you that horsepower is power.
dullard
Elite Member
Some people seemed to have misunderstood me. I said that the American public PERCIEVES diesel to be smelly, loud, dirty, and cannot start in the cold. I gave multiple examples. The fact is that several diesel models ALL had blue exhaust that stunk. Yes these have all been fixed (except the availbility of diesel). But the perception lives on. Even today I still see blue smoke coming out of some cars leaving the diesel gas pumps. As long as those cars are on the road, Americans will dislike diesel. In Europe and other countries they require exhaust problems to be fixed to drive the car. Blue smoke was never a problem.
OK, I won't quote the above because it was entirely out of control, but the relationship between torque and horsepower is correct.
Horsepower is a constant times Torque time RPM. Horsepower (or power) is force moved through a distance in a time period. Torque is the force exerted by the crankshaft. As my undergraduate Internal Combustion Engine Design professor used to say, the greatest increase in horsepower has come from material science that has allowed engines to turn faster. (Of course, better breathing has helped a lot too.)
Horsepower is a constant times Torque time RPM. Horsepower (or power) is force moved through a distance in a time period. Torque is the force exerted by the crankshaft. As my undergraduate Internal Combustion Engine Design professor used to say, the greatest increase in horsepower has come from material science that has allowed engines to turn faster. (Of course, better breathing has helped a lot too.)
BooneRebel
Platinum Member
A lot of misinformation here. I drive a diesel and I'll tell you what I know:
1. There is speculation that the inventor of the diesel engine (Rudolf Diesel) was assasinated by other auto manufacturers of the time because his engine was much more efficient. He had ideas to pursue even more efficiency from his design but did not get the chance to do so before his death.
2. On average, a diesel engine gets 20% better mileage than a gas engine. So even if fuel prices are the same for gas and diesel, diesel is the more economical solution.
3. On average, a diesel option in a vehicle today costs about $4000 more (retail) than a gas version of the same vehicle. It's been figured that you have to drive about 100K miles before seeing the savings of choosing the diesel based on cost of fuel & engine alone.
4. Diesel combusts due to compression, not spark (so no spark plugs). This compression-induced combustion works more efficiently at higher temperatures. So below freezing, engines appreciate being warmed by use of a block heater. At extremely cold temperatures (below 0 degrees F), the diesel fuel itself can gel so it must be treated with an additive to prevent this.
5. The higher compression in a diesel engine means that it cannot sustain high-revving as much as a gas engine running a lower compression ratio. So, in general, diesel engines provide more torque (spins tires) and gas engines provide more horsepower (top speed).
6. Diesel is not as popular in the US due to some very poor implementations by US auto manufacturers. 25 years ago GM tried selling a diesel conversion on a gas engine that was *really* bad. The fallout turned a lot of people away from diesel and is a hurdle that still has to be overcome in this country.
7. Currently, the most fuel efficient production vehicle (exluding gas-electric hybrids) is a VW Bug with a diesel engine at over 50mpg. There are a number of manufacturers that offer diesel engines in sports cars, including BMW and their new 3-series.
8. Most US diesel implementations are in heavy-duty trucks, where the 20% gain in mpg is more readily appreciated. However Jeep has announced their desire to use more diesel engines and will have a diesel option in next year's Liberty.
9. Though diesel fuel itself is the most common choice, just about any petroleum-based liquid can be used. Bio-diesel is a derivative of diesel and vegetable oil. So basically you could run on used french-fry grease from McDonalds if you had a supply.
10. Diesel is #2 heating oil. Diesel is taxed for road use, a dye is used to separate the two to keep you from using heating oil (~$.80/gal) in place of diesel (~$1.60/gal).
1. There is speculation that the inventor of the diesel engine (Rudolf Diesel) was assasinated by other auto manufacturers of the time because his engine was much more efficient. He had ideas to pursue even more efficiency from his design but did not get the chance to do so before his death.
2. On average, a diesel engine gets 20% better mileage than a gas engine. So even if fuel prices are the same for gas and diesel, diesel is the more economical solution.
3. On average, a diesel option in a vehicle today costs about $4000 more (retail) than a gas version of the same vehicle. It's been figured that you have to drive about 100K miles before seeing the savings of choosing the diesel based on cost of fuel & engine alone.
4. Diesel combusts due to compression, not spark (so no spark plugs). This compression-induced combustion works more efficiently at higher temperatures. So below freezing, engines appreciate being warmed by use of a block heater. At extremely cold temperatures (below 0 degrees F), the diesel fuel itself can gel so it must be treated with an additive to prevent this.
5. The higher compression in a diesel engine means that it cannot sustain high-revving as much as a gas engine running a lower compression ratio. So, in general, diesel engines provide more torque (spins tires) and gas engines provide more horsepower (top speed).
6. Diesel is not as popular in the US due to some very poor implementations by US auto manufacturers. 25 years ago GM tried selling a diesel conversion on a gas engine that was *really* bad. The fallout turned a lot of people away from diesel and is a hurdle that still has to be overcome in this country.
7. Currently, the most fuel efficient production vehicle (exluding gas-electric hybrids) is a VW Bug with a diesel engine at over 50mpg. There are a number of manufacturers that offer diesel engines in sports cars, including BMW and their new 3-series.
8. Most US diesel implementations are in heavy-duty trucks, where the 20% gain in mpg is more readily appreciated. However Jeep has announced their desire to use more diesel engines and will have a diesel option in next year's Liberty.
9. Though diesel fuel itself is the most common choice, just about any petroleum-based liquid can be used. Bio-diesel is a derivative of diesel and vegetable oil. So basically you could run on used french-fry grease from McDonalds if you had a supply.
10. Diesel is #2 heating oil. Diesel is taxed for road use, a dye is used to separate the two to keep you from using heating oil (~$.80/gal) in place of diesel (~$1.60/gal).
Pliablemoose
Lifer
Anyone know about the engine they plan on putting in the Liberty, like where it's sourced from, who makes it, mpg in current implementation, etc?
Seem to remember it's an I4 with TDI (turbo/direct injection) ~3L displacement...
Seem to remember it's an I4 with TDI (turbo/direct injection) ~3L displacement...
BooneRebel
Platinum Member
"The diesel Jeep Liberty will be powered by a 2.8-litre common rail turbo-diesel engine produced by DaimlerChrysler, with either a manual or automatic transmission. It is expected that the diesel-powered Liberty will have up to 30 percent improvement in fuel economy, versus a comparable gasoline-powered Liberty." They've been selling the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee in Europe with a diesel for some time now.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
