Why is Counting Cards Illegal

[HardcoreRobot]

You dont win anymore or any less hands when you count cards. The difference is, you bet HIGH when the odds of you winning are higher (not that many high cards have been used), and LOW when your odds of winning are low (many high cards have been used). So in the long run you win a lot on your wins and lose little on your losses. Its not ILLEGAL, but casinos don't like to lose and they will throw your ass out if they suspect you. You can count on a shoe, as long as its not being continually shuffled. The ratio of high cards to low cards is the same, there are just 4x or 8x or whatever many of each. So if a lot of low cards come out, that leaves a disproportionate amount of high cards left in the deck (or shoe) and increases you chances of winning. But, once that is shuffled that proportion goes back even. As was mentioned, its a very simple technique in practice, but counting everyones cards at the pace the game is played AND pretending like you arent is quite difficult - or so im told 🙂

 

[HardcoreRobot]

DP

 

[HardcoreRobot]

You dont win anymore or any less hands when you count cards. The difference is, you bet HIGH when the odds of you winning are higher (not that many high cards have been used), and LOW when your odds of winning are low (many high cards have been used). So in the long run you win a lot on your wins and lose little on your losses. Its not ILLEGAL, but casinos don't like to lose and they will throw your ass out if they suspect you. You can count on a shoe, as long as its not being continually shuffled. The ratio of high cards to low cards is the same, there are just 4x or 8x or whatever many of each. So if a lot of low cards come out, that leaves a disproportionate amount of high cards left in the deck (or shoe) and increases you chances of winning. But, once that is shuffled that proportion goes back even. As was mentioned, its a very simple technique in practice, but counting everyones cards at the pace the game is played AND pretending like you arent is quite difficult - or so im told 🙂

 

[neilm]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: DrEvilEvil
Can someone explain what counting cards means?

Cards Jack through Ace are a minus one.

Cards 2 through 6 are a plus one.

7, 8 and 9 are neutral cards.

You keep track by adding and subtracting the pluses and minuses. If you're in the positive, then there are a lot of high cards and your chances are much better to win the hands.

If the count is minus, then there are more low cards and your chances of winning aren't as good.

Would 10 be neutral or minus?

 

[Kyteland]

Originally posted by: KingNothing

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: DrEvilEvil
Can someone explain what counting cards means?

Cards Jack through Ace are a minus one.

Cards 2 through 6 are a plus one.

7, 8 and 9 are neutral cards.

You keep track by adding and subtracting the pluses and minuses. If you're in the positive, then there are a lot of high cards and your chances are much better to win the hands.

If the count is minus, then there are more low cards and your chances of winning aren't as good.

Is that all? I thought it was more complicated than that. That's easy.

That is a severely simplified strategy for counting cards.

Statistics has a concept called Expected Value (EV) which can be calculated exaclty for any game state. When starting from a full shuffled deck the EV is something like 98% (I made that # up but it is close) which means over a statistically significant number of trials you will average a return of 98 cents on the dollar. The house edge in this example is 2%

However once cards have been removed from the deck the EV changes and must be recalulated. Perhaps on the first round of dealing only the cards 2-9 were dealt to anyone. This would cause the EV of the remaining cards to shift higher, say 110% (again made up) wich means it is now in the players advantage to play. Or perhaps on the first round a lot of face card and aces were dealt. This would cause the EV to drop, making it even worse (statistically) for the player in the next round.

Somebody who understands the math and knows how to count which cards are missing from the deck can tell when it is to their advantage to play, and when they should hold back. Using this method they can cause the house edge to shift in their favor. Of course the house frowns on this practice and will kick you out if they suspect you of it.

Edit: Read this site if you are interested in the math behind casino games. (http://wizardofodds.com/) or send me a PM if you want an explaination. I do this stuff for a living. (Calculating casino returns, not counting cards. 😉)

 

[royaldank]

'Bring Down the House' is a great book about an MIT card counting club. They took Vegas for millions and lived the life of whales. Butlers in their free suites, ring side seats to Vegas fights, and much more. Those guys were counting 6 deck shoes without problem. It's pretty amazing what some of these clubs can do. They also kept track of every hand they played and continually revised their play strategy over the course of 20 to 30 years. It was said that at any time, they could split off 52 cards off a shoe with ease. Helpful for sizing up exactly how many cards are remaining versus what the dealer is going to use before a shuffle. Great read and easy to get through in an evening or two.

 

[Jzero]

As others have said - it's not illegal, but it will cause the casino to lose money.
And like most any other business, if a client becomes a liability instead of an asset, the business will sever its relationship with the client, in this case by throwing you back out on the strip.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: neilm

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: DrEvilEvil
Can someone explain what counting cards means?

Cards Jack through Ace are a minus one.

Cards 2 through 6 are a plus one.

7, 8 and 9 are neutral cards.

You keep track by adding and subtracting the pluses and minuses. If you're in the positive, then there are a lot of high cards and your chances are much better to win the hands.

If the count is minus, then there are more low cards and your chances of winning aren't as good.

Would 10 be neutral or minus?

Well since a 10 has the same value as a royal card...

 

[Kelemvor]

Originally posted by: neilm

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: DrEvilEvil
Can someone explain what counting cards means?

Cards Jack through Ace are a minus one.

Cards 2 through 6 are a plus one.

7, 8 and 9 are neutral cards.

You keep track by adding and subtracting the pluses and minuses. If you're in the positive, then there are a lot of high cards and your chances are much better to win the hands.

If the count is minus, then there are more low cards and your chances of winning aren't as good.

Would 10 be neutral or minus?

Minus. 10, J, Q, K all have the same value (10).

 

[Toasthead]

Card counting is NOT cheating, in the sense that cheating means you are manipulating the game to give yourself an advantage...keeping really good track of the cards is not manipulating the cards. BUT The casino does not like when people do it and they can throw out anyone they want, so of course if the think you are going to have an advantage, they are going to ask you to leave.

 

[sonambulo]

they say all the money's in poker these days.

doesn't matter anyways. you need to have at least a triplicate bankroll of 50k if you want to make any real money at it.