Why is concert ticket buying such a ripoff?

[MiniDoom]

The band needs to get paid and no one is buying music anymore is my guess.

 

[Phoenix86]

(The reality is it doesn't really need fixing.) this

There are layers of middle men making more off the tickets than the face value. Worse, it's baked into the system, the 2nd layer middle men have the ability to pre-purchase/get in front of the line. Ticket master is cool with this because it guarantees their sales.

The artist generally hates this.

The consumer generally hates this.

But it's fine?

 

[Ns1]

There are layers of middle men making more off the tickets than the face value. Worse, it's baked into the system, the 2nd layer middle men have the ability to pre-purchase/get in front of the line. Ticket master is cool with this because it guarantees their sales.

The artist generally hates this.

The consumer generally hates this.

But it's fine?

if you're a true fan, you can find face value tickets by fucking trying harder (fan clubs, be on site at the exact time, find 3rd party sites and buy at the right time, etc)

if you're not a real fan but you have tons of money, you don't need to worry about being on the site right at 10am and hitting refresh 10k times, because you'll always be able to buy a ticket on the secondary market for $$$

for any artist where demand > supply, there is no solution that will make everyone happy.


Of course, since I am often the buyer, seller, AND the middleman, I may be biased :biggrin:

 

[stlc8tr]

Brokers will always be able to get around whatever limitations are imposed.

Still, if Ticketmaster (or whomever) institutes some type of "RealID" system so you have to be a real person instead of a bot, it will make it harder on the brokers.

 

[jlee]

I'm okay with the TM fee itself, they gotta make their money somehow.

$3 to print the tickets at home is recockulous though.

If I could just buy tickets directly from the venue, I'd be happy.

It's actually a brilliant business model. Insert yourself somewhere where you aren't needed, become the exclusive source for the product, and charge whatever you want!

 

[Phoenix86]

Brokers will always be able to get around whatever limitations are imposed.

Still, if Ticketmaster (or whomever) institutes some type of "RealID" system so you have to be a real person instead of a bot, it will make it harder on the brokers.

Register the tickets to a name at time of purchase. Provide ID at entry, doesn't match? Ticket is invalid. Have a system setup to allow transfers (shit happens), but monitor it so 1 person isn't transferring 50 tickets for one show, or multiple shows.

 

[stlc8tr]

Register the tickets to a name at time of purchase. Provide ID at entry, doesn't match? Ticket is invalid. Have a system setup to allow transfers (shit happens), but monitor it so 1 person isn't transferring 50 tickets for one show, or multiple shows.

Some venues matches names to purchases. But since you can usually purchase more than one ticket at a time, the brokers walk their clients in and then just eat the cost of a ticket.

 

[NutBucket]

Some venues matches names to purchases. But since you can usually purchase more than one ticket at a time, the brokers walk their clients in and then just eat the cost of a ticket.

Usually it's more trouble than its worth unless we're talking about the Rolling Stones playing a 1200 seat venue. But it definitely works. Besides, as others have mentioned it's a free market economy.

 

[pete6032]

I'm okay with the TM fee itself, they gotta make their money somehow.

$3 to print the tickets at home is recockulous though.

Ticket Master kicks back some of the fees t the band. They are there to make money for themselves and for the bands. They let the bands charge a lower price but recoup through fees all the while the fans get angry at ticket master instead of the musicians.

 

[Phoenix86]

Some venues matches names to purchases. But since you can usually purchase more than one ticket at a time, the brokers walk their clients in and then just eat the cost of a ticket.

Limited tickets per ID, it's not complicated. Obviously have to do something to allow families/children but that's not really the problem. You put reasonable limits in place with a system to allow exceptions, then track the exceptions so it's not abused like if the same person buying tickets to every show they are obviously a broker.

We have computers to do this shit, but they elect not to, because they are perfectly happy with the system in place. Which is the point.

About fell out of my chair when someone called the system free market. It's rigged as fuck all. The only free thing about it is they are free to do whatever they want which is why it's so retarded.

 

[Ns1]

Limited tickets per ID, it's not complicated. Obviously have to do something to allow families/children but that's not really the problem. You put reasonable limits in place with a system to allow exceptions, then track the exceptions so it's not abused like if the same person buying tickets to every show they are obviously a broker.

We have computers to do this shit, but they elect not to, because they are perfectly happy with the system in place. Which is the point.

Why would a performer or promoter want this again?

 

[stlc8tr]

I'm not against any of those measures.

I'm just saying that brokers will always find a way to work around them.

 

[Phoenix86]

Why would a performer or promoter want this again?

Why would the consumer not want this again? Promoters are basically monopolies for a given performance or venue, they have no competition. Then add to it Ticketmaster has a near monopoly on the market in general and it gets worse.

But the consumer can just vote with their wallet because free market! Except the consumers aren't the ones buying the tickets from the promoter, so they can't directly influence it.

Performers have little say in the matter, see Ticketmaster v Pearl Jam and that was like 2 decades ago. They could make a LOT more money if the market price was in the initial ticket price (market value) instead of that money going to middlemen.

 

[Phoenix86]

I'm not against any of those measures.

I'm just saying that brokers will always find a way to work around them.

It'd be easy to make it cost more than it's worth, and close the loopholes, but it's clear they just don't want to. The problem isn't finding a system that works, it's those who have control wanting (being forced) to do it.

 

[core2slow]

Thank you for being a part of the problem.

 

[ViRGE]

Why would politicians need to be involved?

If it really was a huge problem, like you say, the industry would fix it. If it affected the performers as much as you say, their unions would get it fixed.

The reality is it doesn't really need fixing.

I wouldn't say it doesn't need fixing, but it's more an implementation detail. The only real problem is that the face value of tickets is too low to begin with. The value of these tickets is much higher; they should skip the middle-man and sell at $600 from the start.

This is a classic case of a value good being sold well below the equilibrium price. Which is why you have unnecessary resellers.

 

[tcsenter]

It's actually related to the ridiculous amount of liability insurance that any public event must carry these days, thanks to the trial lawyers, a Tort system desperately in need of reform, and a "Get Rich or Die Tryin" litigious society. I know someone who was an event planner for some small time shit; as in pie baking, best chili contest, several small time bands, car show, not expected to exceed 15K or 20K attendees during the entire weekend level event. The liability insurance they had to carry was exorbitant.

 

[drum]

I just paid $20 for tickets to Disturbed and Breaking Benjamin. It partially matters WHERE you buy them from.

That sounds like a good show!

 

[3chordcharlie]

I wouldn't say it doesn't need fixing, but it's more an implementation detail. The only real problem is that the face value of tickets is too low to begin with. The value of these tickets is much higher; they should skip the middle-man and sell at $600 from the start.

This is a classic case of a value good being sold well below the equilibrium price. Which is why you have unnecessary resellers.

The value of the tickets is (almost certainly) not $600 each. This is fairly straightforward price discrimination (i.e. setting different prices for different markets).

Only a small number of tickets will be sold at sky-high prices, but they represent a great deal of profit for the resellers. Some tickets will be sold for less profit, and some will be dumped closer to the list price, or even eaten as the date approaches.

From the reseller's point of view, they have an expiring good to sell, they know their costs and they have studied the behaviour of their customers. I am almost (but not completely) certain that some resellers are already working on behalf of bands and venues.

 

[MixMasterTang]

It's actually related to the ridiculous amount of liability insurance that any public event must carry these days, thanks to the trial lawyers, a Tort system desperately in need of reform, and a "Get Rich or Die Tryin" litigious society. I know someone who was an event planner for some small time shit; as in pie baking, best chili contest, several small time bands, car show, not expected to exceed 15K or 20K attendees during the entire weekend level event. The liability insurance they had to carry was exorbitant.

Did you even read the OP?

 

[ViRGE]

The value of the tickets is (almost certainly) not $600 each. This is fairly straightforward price discrimination (i.e. setting different prices for different markets).

Only a small number of tickets will be sold at sky-high prices, but they represent a great deal of profit for the resellers. Some tickets will be sold for less profit, and some will be dumped closer to the list price, or even eaten as the date approaches.

From the reseller's point of view, they have an expiring good to sell, they know their costs and they have studied the behaviour of their customers. I am almost (but not completely) certain that some resellers are already working on behalf of bands and venues.

Point being that tickets are underpriced if there's a viable reseller market scooping up all of these tickets. TM and the other sellers could be doing all of this themselves and cutting out the middle man if they priced them correctly from the start.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Concert ticket prices are the way they are because of people like you.

 

[drebo]

The value of the tickets is (almost certainly) not $600 each. This is fairly straightforward price discrimination (i.e. setting different prices for different markets).

Only a small number of tickets will be sold at sky-high prices, but they represent a great deal of profit for the resellers. Some tickets will be sold for less profit, and some will be dumped closer to the list price, or even eaten as the date approaches.

From the reseller's point of view, they have an expiring good to sell, they know their costs and they have studied the behaviour of their customers. I am almost (but not completely) certain that some resellers are already working on behalf of bands and venues.

The value of the tickets is whatever someone is willing to pay for them. If someone is willing to pay $600, then the value of those tickets is $600.

 

[Strk]

The band needs to get paid and no one is buying music anymore is my guess.

Concerts have always been where bands make their money. Album sales are for record companies.

 

[Ryland]

That sounds like a good show!

It hopefully will be. I purchased my tickets through a groupon so there werent even any fee's associated with it and since I started through FW I got 6% back. I think at the end I paid about $18.80/ticket.