JEDI
Lifer
- Sep 25, 2001
- 29,391
- 2,738
- 126
no no no
shakes head
should be:
$200 BELOW invoice price
dealers have end of month and end of quarter bonuses. they're not suffering if u get invoice and holdback.
and here in northern VA area, most dealers have a "processing fee." from what i've read, it's VERY hard to get them to drop it. thus more profit. thus i have no problem going after holdback.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 9,574
- 2
- 76
There is more of a logical reason to negotiate on the price of a house. A new car has very fixed costs associated with it. The dealership gets the car in for X amount and has Y amount of overhead so must sell it for X+Y. A house on the otherhand was purchased years or decades before and undergoes constant changes in value.
I'm Chinese and I tried to haggle once. The guy told me "We don't do that here." Buncha racists.
Is $200 below invoice a good rule of thumb? I'm in Northern VA and thinking about buying my first (new) car. I'm fine with negotiating, but finding my starting point on price has been difficult.
Out of curiosity, are there any good resources on negotiating used cars? The economist in me says to buy a 2 year old car to save a bit.
The dealership will complain that its because "society is against us and thinks it can bargain with us even though it can't bargain at most other stores." In reality is it because nearly all cars are priced too high for market demand and the MSRP has a ridiculous profit margin built in for the dealer.
It is simply not acceptable for many people to pay a dealership $2000 for 2 hours of a salesman's time and a couple faxes to the DMV. The dealership KNOWS this is unacceptable, and when you wear them down, they'll sell the car for less. But dealerships leave the MSRP up there hoping to snag the occasional person who doesn't want to haggle, where they can make that scandalous profit. Saturn decided that they wanted that profit on EVERY car, but they try to market it as some service to the consumer instead of a guaranteed rip-off. People assume "no-haggle" means a good price, when it is the exact opposite. The truth is all dealerships are no-haggle if you are willing to pay the dealer's asking price.
When dealerships are upfront and honest about their wholesale costs from the start, and post a reasonable asking price no more than $500 above that cost, I will happily whip out my checkbook without attempting to waste everyone's time haggling. And I'll tell all my friends to buy there, too. Until then, dealerships insist that we play this game.
It is simply not acceptable for many people to pay a dealership $2000 for 2 hours of a salesman's time and a couple faxes to the DMV. The dealership KNOWS this is unacceptable, and when you wear them down, they'll sell the car for less. But dealerships leave the MSRP up there hoping to snag the occasional person who doesn't want to haggle, where they can make that scandalous profit. Saturn decided that they wanted that profit on EVERY car, but they try to market it as some service to the consumer instead of a guaranteed rip-off. People assume "no-haggle" means a good price, when it is the exact opposite. The truth is all dealerships are no-haggle if you are willing to pay the dealer's asking price.
When dealerships are upfront and honest about their wholesale costs from the start, and post a reasonable asking price no more than $500 above that cost, I will happily whip out my checkbook without attempting to waste everyone's time haggling. And I'll tell all my friends to buy there, too. Until then, dealerships insist that we play this game.
Exactly. Thank god for the internet. You can research any car on line. I research almost to the point of information overload. I figure if the sales manager is pissed off after the deal is done, then more than likely I got a good deal. I ALWAYS piss off the sales manager. But I'm also pleasant and fair. I have no problem with the dealer making money. That's why they're there. My job as a buyer is to make sure they make as little off me as possible. Research, research research. Go in knowing what's what and be prepared to walk if they won't give you a fair deal. Never fall in love with a car. Makes you an easy mark.
hanoverphist
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2006
- 9,867
- 23
- 76
wow, here in phoenix area you pretty much can toss rocks from one dealer to the next. especially with the advent of the autoplexes that have been popping up all over the place.
i prefer the ability to haggle. makes me feel like i have no choice if the price is set. im also one that asks for lower prices at regular stores, and sometimes have gotten them. i saw a mirror i wanted at home depot that was "damaged" and marked down 50%. i pointed out some extra "damage" on the frame and asked for a better discount, to which the girl gave me an additional 20% off. she also screwed up the math and charged me 18.89 for a mirror that originally was marked at 280 something. i didnt mention the last part to her tho.
you guys do know that because of the "haggling" practice that the entire industry as a whole makes much, much more profit than from standard pricing, right? and we, as consumers as a whole, get screwed in the arse over and over again.
and of course, you'll always get those peeps who think this haggling practice is so much better cuz they can always outmanuever the system and get a "good" deal. well, i tend to think that the "good" deal you get (with all the trouble of calculating numbers, researching and negotiating, etc.) is what you would have likely paid IF all the pricing schemes were standard throughout the industry.
don't mistaken the haggling practice as a favor for the customer. it ultimately benefits them.
and of course, you'll always get those peeps who think this haggling practice is so much better cuz they can always outmanuever the system and get a "good" deal. well, i tend to think that the "good" deal you get (with all the trouble of calculating numbers, researching and negotiating, etc.) is what you would have likely paid IF all the pricing schemes were standard throughout the industry.
don't mistaken the haggling practice as a favor for the customer. it ultimately benefits them.
JEDI
Lifer
- Sep 25, 2001
- 29,391
- 2,738
- 126
the moment u drive a new car off the lot, u take a 20% depreciation hit. 2yr old used car is like a new car, except the seller took the hit.
but dont know how to neg on used cars
all my cars have been new cause rebates made it irresistabe to refuse, or it was a 2nd yr car. and i'm not buying a 1st yr car. (think WinXP the day it came out.)
cardiac
Platinum Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 2,082
- 14
- 81
Here are 2 good articles to read: 10 steps to buying a new car.
And this: Confessions of a car salesman., which is a long, but good article.
Bob
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
Traveling is almost always required in my area, if you want to haggle. The local dealerships all seem to be co-owned by the same group of people (for the most part), and it's not unusual for someone to go into a dealership, tell them they're asking too much for that vehicle, how about a price break?, and have the dealership come out point blank and tell them, "If you don't like our price, feel free to go elsewhere".
A lot of haggling is dependant on what time of month/year you're trying to haggle a good price. Nowadays, it seems you can write your own ticket for anything that's getting <20mpg, but I guess there's a good reason for that, eh? I'm driving a 10 year old Nissan Frontier, and would love to move "up" to a full sized truck, but it seems every time I consider it, gas slides back up to ~$3/gallon, and I remember my friends that are spending $75+ to fill their suv/pickup truck fuel tanks.
Honestly, with the atrocious prices being asked for cars these days, I'd tell any dealer that wouldn't haggle where to stick their inventory.
A lot of haggling is dependant on what time of month/year you're trying to haggle a good price. Nowadays, it seems you can write your own ticket for anything that's getting <20mpg, but I guess there's a good reason for that, eh? I'm driving a 10 year old Nissan Frontier, and would love to move "up" to a full sized truck, but it seems every time I consider it, gas slides back up to ~$3/gallon, and I remember my friends that are spending $75+ to fill their suv/pickup truck fuel tanks.
Honestly, with the atrocious prices being asked for cars these days, I'd tell any dealer that wouldn't haggle where to stick their inventory.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
- 0
This is the truth, or so I have been led to believe it to be truth.
The haggling over a price of a car is a left over of the post WW 2 era when there were more buyers than cars so a dealer could ?negotiate? the best price it could get. So it became standard practice to haggle over the price one would pay for a car and that continues to this day.
The haggling over a price of a car is a left over of the post WW 2 era when there were more buyers than cars so a dealer could ?negotiate? the best price it could get. So it became standard practice to haggle over the price one would pay for a car and that continues to this day.
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 15,613
- 11,256
- 136
Haggling is great. Back in September I haggled over the phone for my mom, it is so easy it is like free money. I live in Ohio and my mom was buying her car in Tulsa, OK. She was buying a 2007 Ford Edge SE with a few options MSRP+Shipping was around $26,500. I got it for her for $22,400. It only took 15 minutes of my time too. She had gone to one lot and they gave her a price of 24,500 as their best offer. So I called a different lot told them I would be there to pick it up that day if they gave it to me for 22,500, which they said no problem, but it was the wrong color. So I called back the first lot and said I found it for 22,500, I now want you to give it to me for 22,400. Man the sales manager was pissed but he agreed.
So for 15 minutes on the phone I saved my mom $4100, or $16,400/hr. Why would you not want to haggle?
So for 15 minutes on the phone I saved my mom $4100, or $16,400/hr. Why would you not want to haggle?
so I've never bought a car before but I was wondering how many people have actually gotten at or below the Edmunds price for their area (zip code) when buying a new car?? It seems like if you show a dealer that price, which other people are actually paying for the car in the same area as you, you'd have to be a fool to pay more right?
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
- 52,844
- 1,049
- 126
I showed up with invoice pricing in hand. I got 2 other prices the same way before. Out the door in 10 mins with an offer of -$3625 off MSRP ($200 lower than the previous guy). They still got a little over invoice which I was fine with (BMW). Easiest sale ever, for both of us.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
- 21,758
- 603
- 126
Don't worry about the cock swinging. Just get an offer from another place, then come back and say the other place can do better. If they match it, go back to the original offer place and ask them to do better. Continue until one of them balks or calls you an asshole, thats when you know you're almost there.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,839
- 2,625
- 136
I'd buy cars a lot more often if they'd price them clearly and honestly. I just went through this process and it involved an awfully lot of extra work, getting price reports from Edmunds, Consumer Reports, etc. and pitting the dealers against each other.
Haggling over used cars is understandable, for new ones its an absurd niche practice.
Haggling over used cars is understandable, for new ones its an absurd niche practice.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
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