Why? In relation to the Universe and God...

[CrazyHelloDeli]

Im searching for something. Most humans search for it in their own way at one time or another through ones life. Humans have, from the beginning of time, searched for the answer to the question "Why?" Why does something work the way it does? Why does something not work the way we want it? Why do we live? Why are we here? Its the question that drives science. Its the question that drives religion. Its the question that drives each and every one of us to do the things we do, consciously or unconsciously.

Purely, from a scientific standpoint, there has always been an answer. When Newton let go of a rock, it fell to the groud. "Why?" he asked. Because of a gravity. When the fathers(Whos names escape me at the moment) of the Biomolecular Revolution asked "Why are my eyes blue?" the answer was always there, waiting for them to discover it. Every "why" humanity has asked, has and will have, an answer. Or will it?

The perspective humanity has for the universe, has always been from the inside, looking inside. We have no choice, we are physically part of the universe we are examining. A house, if it were conscious, could not view itself from the outside looking in. Because, it is in fact, a house. If it could view itself outside of itself(stay with me) it would no longer be a house, would it? That defies the logic, reason, and rules of the universe.

Rules. The whole point of science is to determine the rules of the universe. Humanity views the unverse as an alien would view the game of chess. By carefull observation and theory, an alien could infact learn the rules of chess. Just as humanity is, through science, learning the rules of the universe. Now, what happens when we finally know all the rules? The age of discovery would come to an end, and an age of mastery would begin. Knowing the rules of chess, does not make you a grand master.

Millenia will pass, as humanity strives to become grand masters of the game known as the universe. One day we reach that goal, and are able to bend the universe in any way we see fit, provided it still follows the rules. Even after all of humanities hard work to answer the question "Why" it still remains. Why does chess exist? Who made Chess? A sentient Pawn cannot determine Why it exists within the confines of the game it is part of. Its the question which answer cannot be found from a perspective within itself. It must consult the only force that has an "outside looking in" perspective. Its Creator.

 

[TitanDiddly]

Because God made it that way.

 

[Iron Woode]

If this is about Clint.......

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

Clint it not welcome in this thread. Its a serious post for serious discussion.

 

[VIAN]

Im searching for something. Most humans search for it in their own way at one time or another through ones life. Humans have, from the beginning of time, searched for the answer to the question "Why?" Why does something work the way it does? Why does something not work the way we want it? Why do we live? Why are we here? Its the question that drives science. Its the question that drives religion. Its the question that drives each and every one of us to do the things we do, consciously or unconsciously.

It doesn't driver me. Why? Because "Why?" is the stupidest thing you could ask. Like the cartoon, you can always ask why. Why to infinite because that's where it will go and I will not bother. And if you think I'm nuts, you can always add one to the number. Counting to infinite isn't too fun.

Although it is interesting to find out certain why's, some why's just go beyond our reach. Why not?

Purely, from a scientific standpoint, there has always been an answer. When Newton let go of a rock, it fell to the groud. "Why?" he asked. Because of a gravity.

Funny he didn't ask why to the answer. And then why again.

It's gonna be like the smallest things in the usniverse. I don't know what it is right now - the nucleaus of an atom or an electron, whatever. When new technology comes out where it allows them to manify more, there will be something else.

The perspective humanity has for the universe, has always been from the inside, looking inside. We have no choice, we are physically part of the universe we are examining. A house, if it were conscious, could not view itself from the outside looking in. Because, it is in fact, a house. If it could view itself outside of itself(stay with me) it would no longer be a house, would it? That defies the logic, reason, and rules of the universe.

Not necessarily. You must never realize that you know something, because only then do you know nothing. There are laws to the universe, but that doesn't mean there could be ways around them. We don't know everything yet I don't think we ever will, but it's most important to keep an open mind. Just like Newton said the universe didn't move, just stayed in it's place, but later Einstein proved him wrong.

Millenia will pass, as humanity strives to become grand masters of the game known as the universe. One day we reach that goal, and are able to bend the universe in any way we see fit, provided it still follows the rules. Even after all of humanities hard work to answer the question "Why" it still remains. Why does chess exist? Who made Chess? A sentient Pawn cannot determine Why it exists within the confines of the game it is part of. Its the question which answer cannot be found from a perspective within itself. It must consult the only force that has an "outside looking in" perspective. Its Creator.

We use the technology from today to gain an outside view from the inside. I don't think all questions will be answered. Especially not anytime soon. And you assume that there is a creator. There doesn't have to be. Remember to keep an open mind with these things.

 

[element]

Your comparisons between pawns on a chess board and sentient living humans leads me to believe you are ill prepared for any discussion on this topic. Give up now or forever hold your pieces.

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

Originally posted by: element
Your comparisons between pawns on a chess board and sentient living humans leads me to believe you are ill prepared for any discussion on this topic. Give up now or forever hold your pieces.

Indignance aside, I would like to hear what people have to say about my thinking. I have a feeling you misunderstand what im trying to say.

 

[VIAN]

there is a theory that states:

one cannot evolve without outside influence.

Those aren't the exact words, but, anyway, we seem to be doing just fine.

One can evolve, but he would so much quicker with some influence.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: element
Your comparisons between pawns on a chess board and sentient living humans leads me to believe you are ill prepared for any discussion on this topic. Give up now or forever hold your pieces.

I found the comparison to be particularly apt as it was written, though it's quite easy for someone else to infer colloquialisms into his analogy that I don't believe he meant.

I don't believe that his comparison of a person to a pawn was meant to imply any sort of predetermination, but rather the image was only in his mind because of the previous chess reference. The comparison of mankind to a sentient pawn was simply to provide a comparison of mankind to something that moves according to certain "rules" and which, if it had the opportunity to think, would view its own arbitraty set of rules in the same way as mankind views the "rules" of nature and the universe.

If there is indeed something larger than us, to which all of our own "rules" appear as arbitrary as the "rules" of that theoretical sentient pawn do to us, would we even be able to identify it beyond a vague intuition or would our own set of "rules" necessarily limit our capability to comprehend things outside?

ZV

 

[esun]

All of your questions are pointless and without meaning. Their answers will not help you, they will not give you any further insight into life, their very existence is pointless, as is yours. This is the actual nature of the universe. Only over-analysis leads to questions such as "Why?" Of course, the ramifications of such questions in the perspective of the universe are interesting, but taken from a wide enough perspective still lose their meaning.

 

[Mo0o]

Purely, from a scientific standpoint, there has always been an answer. When Newton let go of a rock, it fell to the groud. "Why?" he asked. Because of a gravity.

We maybe able to prove that "gravity" pulls it down, but we still can't prove what gravity is and why it does what it does.

 

[fredtam]

God likes cliff notes.

 

[SilentRavens]

Describing what those great people with the single question "Why?" is a bad idea. I say this more because if "Why" was truely the only thing driving us then, life wouldn't be as we know it.

In fact we live most of our lives as we do simply because we aren't interested in "why" this "why" that. If we did, frankly none of us would have any sort of life to speak of. We would all be emotionless automatons carrying out our particular set of "Why's."

I would agree that every person does search for something at a point in their life. I would not agree however that they are searching for an answer to the question "Why." Because in the end, "why" only matters part of the time, and it is not what makes the world go 'round.

 

[Wahsapa]

this topic reminds me of this thread

as for your questions... if you knew the answer, would that really make a difference?

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

Originally posted by: SilentRavens
Describing what those great people with the single question "Why?" is a bad idea. I say this more because if "Why" was truely the only thing driving us then, life wouldn't be as we know it.

In fact we live most of our lives as we do simply because we aren't interested in "why" this "why" that. If we did, frankly none of us would have any sort of life to speak of. We would all be emotionless automatons carrying out our particular set of "Why's."

I would agree that every person does search for something at a point in their life. I would not agree however that they are searching for an answer to the question "Why." Because in the end, "why" only matters part of the time, and it is not what makes the world go 'round.

Agreed. You start treading into more spiritual waters, defining Humanity as something more, something unique and beyond the confines of the cause and effect rules that govern the universe.

From the perspective of science however, we are nothing more than constructs of mass. While humanity has consciousness, free will, and emotions, they are all definable and can be reduced to a mathimatical equation. While humanity itself views these traits as something special, science views them as no more extraordinary than any other function. Secular.

 

[element]

You're a legend in your own mind. You're skipping a step. Asking questions about undiscovered topics when you haven't even learned much of what has been discovered so far. It's as if you're trying to butter bread that you haven't even toasted yet. To use your chess analogy, it's like you're trying to checkmate as your very first move.

And humans are still not anything like pawns on a chessboard but you can continue to argue otherwise if you like.

 

[FoBoT]

i see no reason why God didn't/couldn't have created all the physical laws that science is "discovering"

believing in God doesn't exclude a person from understanding science

 

[DaveSimmons]

Even after all of humanities hard work to answer the question "Why" it still remains. Why does chess exist? Who made Chess? A sentient Pawn cannot determine Why it exists within the confines of the game it is part of. Its the question which answer cannot be found from a perspective within itself. It must consult the only force that has an "outside looking in" perspective. Its Creator.

You offer nothing to support this. Human thinkers have considered a thousand possibilites for what lies outside our "game board", including a guy handing out harps. We possess something called "imagination" that lets us roam beyond the board's confines.

Besides, as has been discussed a thousand times in other religion threads, "why" is not answered by the existence of a creator. That just moves "why" up one level: "why is there a creator?" "who created this creator?" and so on. Sacred texts like the Bible hide from this issue by saying "he always existed" or "he arose from nothingness" but how is that any different from saying the same about the universe(s)?

 

[Analog]

Read "The purpose driven life"

 

[Gurck]

Why?

Because random events happened in such a way as to produce what we know. Easy as pie. Now a hard question - Who is Clint?

 

[PowerEngineer]

Let's start by agreeing that science is our attempt to discover the so-called laws that govern the behavior of everything around us. Discovery of these rules gives us no real insight into why the universe operates according to these laws. Answering "why?" is for religion/philosophy.

I'll also go along with your argument that it is impossible for someone to have a clear and objective view of something they are a part of.

However, I find your hope that "God" has the answers to our "why?" questions less than comforting. "God" has not seen fit to provide answers (or even clear proof of his existence) directly to everyone. And those among us who claim to have some special communication with the "Almighty" do not seem to have any better answers to the "why?" questions than anyone else. It appears that the answers to the "why?" questions must be too complex for us to understand even if "God" gives them to us. Maybe there are some things that even "God" (if hr/she exists) can not do...

 

[Jeff7181]

I'm not comfortable crediting some all powerful being in the sky for what I do not, or cannot understand. So my answer to the question, "why" is simply, "I do not know." I'm content with that.