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Why (IMO) we can not and WILL not "win" the war against (Muslim) terrorists.

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Originally posted by: 1prophet
You cannot defeat someone who is not afraid to die using guns, bullets, bombs, etc.

You can only defeat them by using their own beliefs and ideology against them.
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Exactly.

Look what we had to do during WWII when it came to the war in the Pacfic.
 
I think we've won the fight against terrorism...
9/11 made us much more aware and we now have systems in place to keep everyone much safer.

I am as worried about terrorism in my life as I am with getting hit by lightning...
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
I think we've won the fight against terrorism...
9/11 made us much more aware and we now have systems in place to keep everyone much safer.
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absolutely..... let's see - we have the traffic light coded security alert system. then there's ... uh... well... i mean .... then we have the ... cough... dammit what else DO we have that makes us safer ???
 
Something we should be very concerned about is, what we are doing to our own soldier's morale by asking them to do something that we all know is impossible.

I was arounf during Vietnam, and everyday Iraq gets more and more like Vietnam.

What was the single biggest problem in Vietnam ? After a while nobody knew why we were there, and what we were trying to accomplish.

Same thing is happening in Iraq. what are we trying to accomplish there ? If you really get to the bottom of it, we already did about all we can do, and for more than a year our boys are just over there to save face for politicians, something that isn't worth a warm bucket of spit, let alone sending our countrymen home with no legs, or with damaged lives. Or dead.

If we leave, every person in Iraq might die, but that isn't our problem, and we can't fix it.
 
Originally posted by: DeeKnow
Originally posted by: Brutuskend

SO how do you deal with religious fanatics? Like I said, you hit them where it hurts.
You fly airliners into our buildings, we drop bombs or your holy sites. You sneak a briefcase nuke into our country, we nuke Mecca.
Right? OF COURSE NOT. Would we ever do it? Hell NO. But it would do two things. It would make the BAD people think twice about doing the kinds of things they have been doing and it would make the GOOD people much more likely to keep a REAL close eye on those people they know are likely to cause trouble. There is no way I see that we can win the present conflict without full support of ALL Muslim people out there and personally I can't see how that can ever be done the way things are going now.
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tit-for-tat is not a good strategy for a very simple reason ... 'we' have a lot more to lose than 'them'

as far as i am concerned, the only way to reduce this sort of conflict is to look at what the US has done in the past to incite such passionate hatred among these people. they may seem crazy, and i'm sure a fair number are, but they have some legitimate grouses that find support among the intelligentsia and the elite who fund them

why is the US in Saudi to begin with? why is it protecting a regime of rogues? and why does it not raise questions about human rights in the land that it so zealously guards??

if you were a poor Saudi youth with no education and no career prospects, and you see these so called royals who spend millions on their palaces and their BMWs - all funded by the oil that belongs to the country - AND the whole system protected by Bush, who not surprisingly, is in bed with the same royals.... would it make you mad ???
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This is true, but since we do rely on Saudi's for about 25% (more or less) of our oil, can we really make an enemy out of the Saudi's? If Bush were to make Saudi's the enemy tomorow, and Saudi's turned off their oil to us, that would hurt us more than them. They can easily sell their oil to any other country, but we would face higher oil prices that would be detrimental to our economy. Basically, at this moment we don't have a choice but to smile in the face of the enemy. However, once we've relinquish dependencies on oil and move on to Hydrogen fuel cells, I'm sure things will be very different.

I agree with the OP in that it is very difficult to fight these religous fanatic terrorists since we can't tell who is friend or foe, but the long term goal of reducing terrorism by hopefully somehow improving the lives of everyone in the region through democracy is a chance I'd rather look forward to than to have inaction and wait for the next 9/11.
 
Maybe we're just creating a new "better" Muslim nation. One that's dependent upon us. One that will eventually give us all it's wealth because we "liberated" it. Maybe we're screwing around in Saudi just because it's something to do, because all the "based on a true story" movies out there aren't real enough for us. Mr. President Bush has provided us with an entertainment fanfair that we wont forget anytime soon, nor will we forget the media terms "operation freedom", or "war against terror". Frankly the whole affair has turned me off of our current administration.
 
Originally posted by: noto12ious
Originally posted by: Tom
Same thing is happening in Iraq. what are we trying to accomplish there ?
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Must protect the oil $$$.
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bull... Saudi has 10 times more oil than Iraq, and we already control that country.
if oil is what you want, all it will take is for the marines guarding the saudi royal palace to walk into the bedroom and tell the emir "you're fired". end of story

I doubt any ordinary saudi citizen will resist the downfall of their monarchy.
 
In Nam who were the V.C. really afraid of? The R.O.K. Marines.
They were the only ones there that would not hesitate to fight them on their own level


in 'Nam, many an infant were hacked to bits with banana knives if front of their parents during interrogations.

Cruel motherfvckers.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: palehorse74
we can win, and we will win.
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Define "winning".
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winning to me would be living in a world where the likelihood of a fanatic Muslim terrorist attack is as likely as a fanatical Christian doing the same.

Once we're rid of the bad seeds of Islam (the violent 0.01%), then we'll be able to live in harmony.

Perhaps one or two small groups may pop up from time to time, but we (the entire world) will be able to smash them quickly each time they do. (such as David Kuresh in the US, the nazi compound in CA yesterday, etc)

once we are to that point, we have "won."

It took 700 years or so to clean up Christianity, but I'm hoping that the world will work together and make this happen in 30 years, or less.
 
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Originally posted by: palehorse74
It took 700 years or so to clean up Christianity, but I'm hoping that the world will work together and make this happen in 30 years, or less.
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Big 'Strawman' fan aren't you ?
How many times have you watched this and salivated about joing in ?
For those of you who don't know, the Army plays this video in every one of their comencement ceremonies, to fire up the recruits.
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been there, done that, doing it again soon.

but it's not out of bloodlust or warmongering. it's for honor and the pride of taking on our enemies and kicking their evil a$$es. it's something you will never understand, so I won't try to explain it any further...

and for the record, i've never seen that video as part of any official ceremony.
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Originally posted by: palehorse74
It took 700 years or so to clean up Christianity, but I'm hoping that the world will work together and make this happen in 30 years, or less.
Click to expand...
Big 'Strawman' fan aren't you ?
How many times have you watched this and salivated about joing in ?
For those of you who don't know, the Army plays this video in every one of their comencement ceremonies, to fire up the recruits.
Click to expand...
been there, done that, doing it again soon.

but it's not out of bloodlust or warmongering. it's for honor and the pride of taking on our enemies and kicking their evil a$$es. it's something you will never understand, so I won't try to explain it any further...

and for the record, i've never seen that video as part of any official ceremony.
Click to expand...


What makes your cause any less "evil" than theirs?
 
Originally posted by: M00T
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Originally posted by: palehorse74
It took 700 years or so to clean up Christianity, but I'm hoping that the world will work together and make this happen in 30 years, or less.
Click to expand...
Big 'Strawman' fan aren't you ?
How many times have you watched this and salivated about joing in ?
For those of you who don't know, the Army plays this video in every one of their comencement ceremonies, to fire up the recruits.
Click to expand...
been there, done that, doing it again soon.

but it's not out of bloodlust or warmongering. it's for honor and the pride of taking on our enemies and kicking their evil a$$es. it's something you will never understand, so I won't try to explain it any further...

and for the record, i've never seen that video as part of any official ceremony.
Click to expand...


What makes your cause any less "evil" than theirs?
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because my (our) intentions are to bring them liberty and freedom, rather than theirs which are to bring tyranny and oppression.

simple.
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74


but it's not out of bloodlust or warmongering. it's for honor and the pride of taking on our enemies and kicking their evil a$$es. it's something you will never understand, so I won't try to explain it any further...

and for the record, i've never seen that video as part of any official ceremony.
Click to expand...


Fisrt - 'it's not out of bloodlust or warmongering' is bullshit -
it's like blood in the water to sharks for the troops.

Second - 'i've never seen that video as part of any official ceremony' -
I've seen it used with 101st Airborne, and on station with MP BN's in Ft. Hood.
A reoccuring part of their training to help 'Get them Up' for the Mission.

Make up your mind - are you 'IN' the .mil, going to go back in someday, or just
making up some hype ?

and finally 'it's something you will never understand' -
I understand a hell of a lot more than you will ever have the capacity to comprehend.
Boy !


 
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Fisrt - 'it's not out of bloodlust or warmongering' is bullshit -
it's like blood in the water to sharks for the troops.
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I cannot think of more than a handful of infantryman that I served with over there who actually "enjoyed" the killing. I was not one of them.

Second - 'i've never seen that video as part of any official ceremony' -
I've seen it used with 101st Airborne, and on station with MP BN's in Ft. Hood.
A reoccuring part of their training to help 'Get them Up' for the Mission.
Click to expand...
good for you. like i said, I've never seen it. Your exact words were "every one of their comencement ceremonies," which is bullsh*t.

Make up your mind - are you 'IN' the .mil, going to go back in someday, or just
making up some hype ?
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I've been in either the Reserves or RA since 1991 with the exception of a break-in-service from 1998-2003. In fact, I just hit my 10-year mark for TIS... what I meant in my last post was that I have been to war, and will be leaving to start my journey back to war again, in April! Such is the life of a Reservist..

and finally 'it's something you will never understand' -
I understand a hell of a lot more than you will ever have the capacity to comprehend.
Boy !
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perhaps you do. But lose the whole "Boy!" thing if you expect any kind of respect at all.
 
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Originally posted by: palehorse74


but it's not out of bloodlust or warmongering. it's for honor and the pride of taking on our enemies and kicking their evil a$$es. it's something you will never understand, so I won't try to explain it any further...

and for the record, i've never seen that video as part of any official ceremony.
Click to expand...


Fisrt - 'it's not out of bloodlust or warmongering' is bullshit -
it's like blood in the water to sharks for the troops.

Second - 'i've never seen that video as part of any official ceremony' -
I've seen it used with 101st Airborne, and on station with MP BN's in Ft. Hood.
A reoccuring part of their training to help 'Get them Up' for the Mission.

Make up your mind - are you 'IN' the .mil, going to go back in someday, or just
making up some hype ?

and finally 'it's something you will never understand' -
I understand a hell of a lot more than you will ever have the capacity to comprehend.
Boy !
Click to expand...

Don't you know you had a picnic compared to iraq? It's like the most OMG place evar!

PH, here is how the world really works. We kill them because we believe it is our best interests. They in turn kill us for the same. You believe you are killing to bring liberty, they believe they are killing for their right to bring the most important thing to them, their religion. In reality it's all power play by those in charge. We installed dictators and have killed elected officials because they were not what we wanted. We have just as much cold blood on our hands as they. Don't ever think otherwise.

In Iraq "we" and "they" have assured that innocents will die do to meet the respective sides sensibilities. In the end, the same people are dying, but it's for a different cause.

Small consolation to the children of dead parents.


 
so what we have here is a debate between the pessimist, the optimist, and the realist... (anyone else hear that whistling?)

each more stubborn than the next in their view of the world...

so be it.
 
I've been in either the Reserves or RA since 1991 with the exception of a break-in-service from 1998-2003


Yeah, you're not active - are you, or have you ever been on active duty, not reserves.

 
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
"I've been in either the Reserves or RA since 1991 with the exception of a break-in-service from 1998-2003"
Yeah, you're not active - are you, or have you ever been on active duty, not reserves.
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RA = Regular Army. My active duty time was in the 90's with the 82nd. Since 2003, I've been Nasty Guard...
 
That clears that up - RA to me means the Reserve Affairs office under the Pentagon.

Reserve Affairs

your reference to 'Reserves' put me into that direction of thinking.

Where and what with the 83nd ?


I was Air Force - assigned to the 1st Cav in Camp Radcliff, Vietnam circa 1966.
Strange.
 
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
That clears that up - RA to me means the Reserve Affairs office under the Pentagon.

Reserve Affairs

your reference to 'Reserves' put me into that direction of thinking.

Where and what with the 83nd ?

I was Air Force - assigned to the 1st Cav in Camp Radcliff, Vietnam circa 1966.
Strange.
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11B, infantryman, 505 PIR, 82nd Airborne Div, Ft. Bragg NC... and other interesting places abroad.

Came back in 2003 to the Nasty Guard infantry, deployed 2004-2005. Now I've switched to 97E (HUMINT Collector) and will be leaving for a longggg (21 month) train-mob-deploy in April.

why strange?
 
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