Why I'm excited about Zen/GCN + DX12

[Silverforce11]

https://community.amd.com/community...ectx-12-for-enthusiasts-explicit-multiadapter

AMD just made a blog post that confirms what I've been suggesting for awhile now, with DX12, AMD's APU iGPU can contribute to the rendering of games alongside the dGPU due to the inclusion of native ASYMMETRIC MULTI-GPU support in DX12.

What I hope AMD will do, is create a large "enthusiast grade" APU, >200W TDP with a very powerful iGPU portion. It will give them a definite edge over Intel in this regard because a Zen APU + GCN dGPU combination with DX12 will provide a lot more rendering power than an Intel + GCN dGPU scenario, in which the Intel iGPU will sit there idling as it does now in our systems with dGPU.

Edit: This was before I found out Intel's latest Skylake CPU with its 9th gen iGPU is actually fully DX12 compliant. Kudos to Intel for the good move. Either way, the point stands, DX12 is a game changer for any CPU with DX12 iGPU onboard as it can be used to speed up games rather than sit there idling as it does now. Exciting times ahead!

 

[tential]

Edited: no longer relevant.

 

[LTC8K6]

https://community.amd.com/community...ectx-12-for-enthusiasts-explicit-multiadapter

AMD just made a blog post that confirms what I've been suggesting for awhile now, with DX12, AMD's APU iGPU can contribute to the rendering of games alongside the dGPU due to the inclusion of native ASYMMETRIC MULTI-GPU support in DX12.

What I hope AMD will do, is create a large "enthusiast grade" APU, >200W TDP with a very powerful iGPU portion. It will give them a definite edge over Intel in this regard because a Zen APU + GCN dGPU combination with DX12 will provide a lot more rendering power than an Intel = GCN dGPU scenario, in which the Intel iGPU will sit there idling as it does now in our systems with dGPU.

Intel's igp will work with Multiadapter in DX12.

McMullen showcased the benefits for a hybrid configuration using the Unreal Engine 4 Elemental demo. Splitting the workload between unnamed Nvidia discrete and Intel integrated GPUs raised the frame rate from 35.9 FPS to 39.7 FPS versus only targeting the Nvidia chip. In that example, the integrated GPU was relegated to handling some of the post-processing effects.

http://techreport.com/news/28196/di...-shares-work-between-discrete-integrated-gpus

 

[Silverforce11]

Because Zen + GCN 2 + HBM2 will give AMD a much higher baseline iGPU performance once bandwidth bottlenecks are removed from the equation, which current APUs suffer due to system ram reliance.

Intel would have to go onboard with HBM2 designs on their CPUs as well and they would need a much larger iGPU to compete. There's no signs of either happening as Intel is focused on selling the smallest possible die-size at the maximum prices.

There's the other advantage of having both the iGPU & dGPU being the same uarch, you can shift more workloads to the iGPU rather than just post processing, basically any FL12 workload cannot be run on Intel iGPU due to their lack of support for example.

Edit: This does not prevent Intel from changing their GPU uarch to have full DX12 FL support nor make a huge die and use HBM2 to alleviate bandwidth bottlenecks (larger scale than crystal-well), but it does give AMD a headstart. Further down the road, the iGPU in consumer CPUs will be useful more than now, in this respect, DX12 is a game changer.

 

[LTC8K6]

Intel has faster igp's coming too.

They are less of a pig in a poke than Zen at the moment.

DX12 Feature levels are likely going to be a non-factor, but at the moment, NV is in the lead there.

 

[LTC8K6]

IIRC, Skylake HD530 is DX12 FL12.1

 

[Silverforce11]

Here's hoping Intel makes a very powerful iGPU in their next-gen to utilize ASYMMETRIC MULTI-GPU support in DX12.

I'm very annoyed at the current Intel CPU situation, in which they sell a tiny die at such a ripoff pricing, which HALF (iGPU) of that die is doing nothing in my gaming PC with a dGPU.

If a big Zen APU + dGPU combo gives great performance in DX12 games, it would spur Intel to give us more for our money.

 

[LTC8K6]

Win 10 is here now with DX12. So Intel igp can be used as soon as code writers decide take advantage. We have already seen demos.

So, we really can't complain about anyone's igp being useless anymore.

If the game writers don't want to write the code, then it's not going to happen, not even with Zen.

Skylake is at least DX12 FL12.0, Intel has confirmed that much.

 

[Silverforce11]

Yep, Skylake is FL12+, good to see Intel is taking iGPU very seriously. If they jump onboard with HBM2, then we can expect some really good iGPU performance for sure. I'll be happy to pay them $500+ for a nice CPU for a build if I knew that the iGPU is powerful and contributes to my gaming experience.

Can't wait for some DX12 games!

 

[Elixer]

I'm very annoyed at the current Intel CPU situation, in which they sell a tiny die at such a ripoff pricing, which HALF (iGPU) of that die is doing nothing in my gaming PC with a dGPU.

Intel has spent billions getting that tiny die ready, so, not sure why you think it is a ripoff at this point, since we don't know how much it actually costs to make + R&D.
We will see in their next quarterly reports when they hit profit margin, and then we can complain about what a ripoff it is then.

While I hope Zen actually brings competition to the table, AMD has shot themselves in the foot so many times these past few years, I really have no idea where it will land.
Is it going to be another 'fury' type launch where it under performs based on all the hype there was before, or will it actually bring something to the table?
I am hoping for a hexcore beast that can go toe to toe with intel's best, and have HBM as well.

 

[at80eighty]

DX12 Feature levels are likely going to be a non-factor, but at the moment, NV is in the lead there.

what makes you arrive at this conclusion?

 

[TheELF]

what makes you arrive at this conclusion?

Because...console ports,same reason why we (probably) won't see any other game using multiple gpus any time soon,they will stick with sli/cf.

Ashes of the singularity is the one and only game that is written for it and no other publisher/game house even hinted at doing something similar.

Hopefully it will catch on at some time but don't hold your breath.

 

[at80eighty]

apologies, not trying to be rude - but what does SLI/CF have to do with DX12? and if so, how does it translate to NV having a DX12 advantage?

 

[NTMBK]

apologies, not trying to be rude - but what does SLI/CF have to do with DX12? and if so, how does it translate to NV having a DX12 advantage?

Easier for the game developer to ignore multi-GPU, and let the GPU vendors hack in AFR at the driver level. (Crossfire and SLI.)

 

[Silverforce11]

Because...console ports.

Actually for that reason, GCN is in major consoles, its the basis for game development and if DX12. So AMD will be just fine.

NV would have to get FL12.1 into games via the GameWorks program.

Also, @Squaresoft has not only hinted at utilizing DX12 to the fullest, they've actually showcased it in their demos.

I'm sure other major studios like Crytek, DICE & PRed will move to DX12 games. Ubisoft will probably wonder what's all the fuss...

 

[Maximilian]

Smells like lucid virtu all over again... guess we'll have to wait and see if its any better than that.

 

[TheELF]

Actually for that reason, GCN is in major consoles, its the basis for game development and if DX12. So AMD will be just fine.

So what feature level do consoles use? Do they even have feature levels?

NV would have to get FL12.1 into games via the GameWorks program.

For what to happen? DX12 is supposed to be an API, so as long as nvidia provides drivers for dx12 it's work done,console devs write for whatever API the ps4 uses and dx12 translates the commands for the drivers (or other way around? )

Also, @Squaresoft has not only hinted at utilizing DX12 to the fullest, they've actually showcased it in their demos.

Oh?They released a demo with multigpu support? You have a link for that,I wanna try that out.

I'm sure other major studios like Crytek, DICE & PRed will move to DX12 games. Ubisoft will probably wonder what's all the fuss...

If dx12 is really that close to mantle than devs just have to do even less work for the porting since console code should be compatible with dx12 from the get-go,isn't that why amd pushed mantle in the first place?

 

[tential]

Because Zen + GCN 2 + HBM2 will give AMD a much higher baseline iGPU performance once bandwidth bottlenecks are removed from the equation, which current APUs suffer due to system ram reliance.

Intel would have to go onboard with HBM2 designs on their CPUs as well and they would need a much larger iGPU to compete. There's no signs of either happening as Intel is focused on selling the smallest possible die-size at the maximum prices.

There's the other advantage of having both the iGPU & dGPU being the same uarch, you can shift more workloads to the iGPU rather than just post processing, basically any FL12 workload cannot be run on Intel iGPU due to their lack of support for example.

Edit: This does not prevent Intel from changing their GPU uarch to have full DX12 FL support nor make a huge die and use HBM2 to alleviate bandwidth bottlenecks (larger scale than crystal-well), but it does give AMD a headstart. Further down the road, the iGPU in consumer CPUs will be useful more than now, in this respect, DX12 is a game changer.

Edited:no longer a true statement.


Infraction issued for personal attack.

-Rvenger

 

[LTC8K6]

what makes you arrive at this conclusion?

NV supports the highest DX12 feature level at the moment with Maxwell 2 cards.

Pretty simple.

 

[Silverforce11]

So Intel Igpus do work and you lied in the op.

Good to know.

Actually no, I wasn't aware Skylake supports the new features since I didn't bother reading the reviews of yet another 5% IPC gain SKU from Intel.

I already corrected myself in a post above, but think whatever you want.

Yep, Skylake is FL12+, good to see Intel is taking iGPU very seriously. If they jump onboard with HBM2, then we can expect some really good iGPU performance for sure. I'll be happy to pay them $500+ for a nice CPU for a build if I knew that the iGPU is powerful and contributes to my gaming experience.

Can't wait for some DX12 games!

 

[Silverforce11]

Smells like lucid virtu all over again... guess we'll have to wait and see if its any better than that.

Hopefully being supported in DX12 means it works better than Lucid Virtu which didn't get much support.

 

[at80eighty]

thanks for clarifying. interestingly even Skylake is 12_1 compliant. huh.

 

[LTC8K6]

thanks for clarifying. interestingly even Skylake is 12_1 compliant. huh.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Core-...ylake-Test-Core-i7-6700K-i5-6600K-1166741/#a3

 

[Azix]

Here's hoping Intel makes a very powerful iGPU in their next-gen to utilize ASYMMETRIC MULTI-GPU support in DX12.

I'm very annoyed at the current Intel CPU situation, in which they sell a tiny die at such a ripoff pricing, which HALF (iGPU) of that die is doing nothing in my gaming PC with a dGPU.

If a big Zen APU + dGPU combo gives great performance in DX12 games, it would spur Intel to give us more for our money.

It may be tiny, but they typically do it on a new process. Their yields might not be as flexible as people would think. A larger chip might not have been feasible just yet.

We think intel is able to do a lot right now, but it may turn out they get caught with their pants down. If AMD puts out an 8 core chip with something like hyperthreading and good single core performance PLUS a solid GPU with HBM (that can be used by CPU and GPU)... I am not so sure intel could match it quickly.

Zen is exciting if it meets these things. It should be better to have the same GPU architecture as the iGPU. Intels iGPUs would never have that advantage because they don't make dGPUs

If AMD puts out such a chip I wouldn't care what intel was doing. As long as the performance gains are coming one way or the other.

 

[TheELF]

IIf AMD puts out an 8 core chip with something like hyperthreading and good single core performance PLUS a solid GPU with HBM (that can be used by CPU and GPU)... I am not so sure intel could match it quickly.

If they do...
it will be extremely expensive.