Why I Think We ARE Justified in Attacking Afghanistan.. (IMPORTANT--please read!!)

[UNCjigga]

WHO'S IN CHARGE OF AFGHANISTAN???
another ATOT essay by UNCjigga

Okay, today I've been doing some thinking about Afghanistan and its possible involvement in yesterday's tragedy. Last night, Bush more or less said that the US would not make any distinction between terrorists and the nations that harbor terrorists.

So what's going through the Taliban leadership's thoughts right now? Lets assume that Afghanis are good-natured, family/clan oriented peoples. Lets assume they find the yoke of oppressive leadership a heavy burden to bear, as they felt under Soviet leadership. Knowing this, lets assume that the Taliban is able to stay in power through the rule of fear. The Taliban are harsh, intolerant, and they swiftly crush their enemies instilling fear in those who might oppose them.

This brings me to believe that the Taliban's prime purpose is the pursuit of power, and staying in power (the goal of most authoritative governments.) They do not feel ANY accountability to the people of Afghanistan, because their pursuit of power supercedes the needs of the people.

Now lets think about what happened yesterday. Thousands of Americans lost their lives at the hands of suicide hijackers, and the economic fabric of our country has been severely damaged. Yesterday's cowardly act of terrorism CLEARLY CONSTITUTES AN ACT OF WAR. I'm no expert on this case, but the experts have already spoken and they feel the same way. The number one suspect is Osama Bin Laden--everyone seems to think that he must have had a hand in it or known about it. His organization has denied any involvement, the Taliban insist Bin Laden is not responsible, and they've told us that they "feel our pain". In addition, today they issued a plea begging us not to attack their impoverished nation. It seems to me that they are concerned with maintaining their hold on power. If the evidence does indeed point to Afghanistan, an attack led by the US would seem inevitable. Whether the targets are terrorist camps or Taliban-held positions, ANY foreign attack on Afghanistan would instigate the rebel movement (rebels being the deposed former government) and weaken the credibility of the Taliban. Already, we've seen them light up the night skies in Kabul with mortar fire.

So if the Taliban are concerned with maintaining a hold on power, why not HAND OVER OSAMA BIN LADEN TO THE US AUTHORITIES? I'm sure any government capable of waging such a wicked campaign of fear and terror on their own people would have the capability to bring him in. What would happen if they were to accomplish such a feat? For one, the US attitude towards the Taliban would be FOREVER CHANGED. US policy towards the government would definately shift, and I could see our government pushing for recognition of the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan (right now I believe Pakistan is the sole nation maintaining normal diplomatic relations with the regime.) Sentiment throughout the Western world might change--as the Taliban could very well be seen as the heros of the moment. What would the domestic repercussions be??? Who knows how the Afghani people would react. Sure, bin Laden's supporters would be upset and they may join the Rebel Alliance (heh) but I'll be DAMNED SURE that the US would, in this case, side with the Taliban (provide some armament, weapons, mebbe even contras?) Frankly, it doesn't matter what happens domestically because the Taliban are the Thought Police of Afghanistan--they've got that aspect under control. I seriously doubt that the American media or people would be shocked at the thought of the Bush Administration and the Taliban working together, as long as Osama bin Laden and his organization is rotting away in federal prison, sharing cells with the worst, racially bigoted scum our country has to offer.

So what prevents this scenario from happening?

1) Osama bin Laden runs Afghanistan. Pure and simple, he is the man in charge. The Taliban government is a mere front to ensure that Western nations don't attack their country at once. Under the guise of 'Muslim Fundamentalism', the government is able to keep the West at bay while maintaining support of the other Arab countries. This is a credible theory--anyone studying the Taliban's rise to power will find it remarkable how they came by so many sophisticated weapons so fast. Is it any wonder why they keep bin Laden hidden?

2) The Taliban is far weaker than the West is led to believe. Bin Laden has agreed to protect their hold on power in exchange for the government keeping mum on his position. While this situation is more reciprocal than the one above, it still puts bin Laden in a position of extreme power with the government of Afghanistan. One wrong move with the Taliban, and bin Laden can instantly side with the rebels and help them overthrow the government (indeed, I believe he is capable of selling weapons to both sides already, that sneaky lil' bastard!)

3) The government really doesn't know where bin Laden is!!! This would again imply that they are weaker than we believe, and also that they are incompetent to some degree. Again, it implies bin Laden is more powerful than the government.

4) Osama bin Laden has no involvement in the attack, and thus the Taliban see no reason to scapegoat him and turn him in. This is the LEAST LIKELY scenario. For the Taliban to KNOW bin Laden was not involved, they would need evidence to support his innocence (ignore guilty until proven innocent for now.) If they had such evidence, why not hand it over to us? Did they not say they "hope the courts can bring justice"? If we could eliminate him as a suspect, it would help us focus our case. As I said earlier, this is an unlikely scenario.

Eliminating scenario 4, all the other possibilities put Osama bin Laden in a powerful position in Afghanistan. He is more than just a warlord--he holds sway with the government. Indeed, he is in collusion with the government! This is why I believe we are justified in launching Desert Storm II (or Desert W. Storm? )

We should have no qualms about this! As soon as we get just a shred more evidence, we should ACT FAST!

 

[UNCjigga]

I know its long, but its well-thought-out and informative. Please read and post your comments!

 

[UNCjigga]

Hey..I was wondering...do Kurds live in Afghanistan too??? Man, that would seriously suck if they get caught in the middle of another war.

 

[Double Trouble]

While I hope the US goes in and helps Bin Laden meet his creator sooner rather than later, I don't think the US has any right to *demand* the release of any citizen to stand trial in the US so long as the US is not willing - under any circumstances - to extradite US citizens to other countries to stand trial for their crimes.

The US has a policy of not extraditing it's citizens, no matter what the person is accused of. On the other hand, the US is always demanding extradition of people from other countries (Colombia, Sudan etc etc). This is pure hypocricy. Heck, the US even went so far as to invade Panama to kidnap Noriego for alleged crimes. How would the US like it if Bush was kidnapped by Afghanistan to stand trial for his crimes??? (assume for a second they would be capable of such a thing). It would not stand for it. I can't blame any country for telling the US "so long as you're not willing to do it, we're not doing it".

That said, I hope they just bomb his butt and everyone else connected with this into oblivion.

 

[UNCjigga]

I didn't say the US should demand extradition. I was thinking that the Taliban should offer him up if they plan on staying in power any longer (to stop us from attacking!)

 

[Shazam]

So, what you're saying is that the US should remove Afghanistan's government? If so, you should clarify your title a bit.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

It's not so easy to remove the Taliban. many people share the same views, and many do not at the same time. This will only lead to more civil revolts and deaths of innocent civilians. The best thing to do is to eradicate the root of the problem (osama) and get us troops the hell outta there and leave that pathetic country to destroy itself. Helping the israelies fight the war should now be a numero uno priority.

 

[SuperD]

I think that you have touched on two very important scenarios. I'm not a diplomat but the logic behind your argument is solid.

The simple truth is that Bin Laden (once again assuming it is him - which I believe) carried out an extremely complicated plot with the efficiency that Afghanistan itself could not have done. Therefore, either Bin Laden holds the Afghan government by the short hairs, or Afghan's government is a toothless dog.

Make no mistake though - our country did not have the intelligence in place to prevent Timothy McVeigh from bombing the Fed building in OK City. So if we cannot track our own hostile militia groups - I would doubt that the Taliban would even have half a clue of tracking someone as elusive as Bin Laden.

Great thesis - well though out.

I'm would still like to turn that whole area into a parking lot though.

 

[BD2003]

I think the course of action is quite simple. There is no doubt in anyones mind that afganistan is harboring bin laden.

1. Demand that bin laden be turned over immediately andunconditionally.
2. If they dont, blanket bomb a uninhabited area to remind the taliban what they are dealing with.
3. Again, demand he be turned over.
4. If refused again, warn the taliban officials, and destroy the afghani capital.
5. If he is still not turned over, its time to invade afghanistan. Anyone who resists is captured or killed. Afghanistan should be completely occupied, and anyone figured to be linked to terrorists should be captured and killed.

This isnt about equal retribution. This needs to be made an example of, therefore make sure it never happens again. If it comes to carpet bombing countries, so be it.

If the arabic nations make no distincition between the actions of our government and our people, than neither should we. Anyone who doesnt not immediately surrender, should be dealt with appropriately. The "innocent citizens" of today, are the terrorists of tommorrow. Its not about justice for all. Its about national security. Whether you want to face the facts or not, its us against them. If they had the power that we had, they would probably invade us, and bomb us to the floor. I believe we should act the same.

 

[chiwawa626]

You know theres people in afganistan that are against terrorism and against taliban.... Why does the whole afgan have to suffer for them? Just because there were a few white kids in america shooting schools, we dont kill all the white kids we see in america?

 

[SuperD]

I was doing more reading of news and now the Taliban would like "evidence" of Bin Laden's involvement in the terrorist acts and THEN they would look into it and help. When asked about the location of Bin Laden, the foreign minister danced around the question by saying "He's not .... in this hotel." (The hotel in Kabul where the news conference was held). Similarly when asked about whether this would damage US/Afghan relations he said "There is no relationship."

1.) Afghanistan is not sorry about this atocity.
2.) They will not help in the location or extradition of Bin Laden.

If our investigation continues to turn up evidence of Bin Laden - We need to take him out. Not bomb him, but make damn sure we kill him. Not like Desert Storm where we left Sadaam in power.

Speaking of whom - Does Iraq or Libya have the terrorist powers to pull something like this off?

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

Afghanistan - the 51st state of the United States.

 

[SuperD]

I don't think all of Afghan should suffer. To kill the innocent makes us no better than Bin Laden.
But, the terrorists need to be stopped. If America does nothing we will give the green light to every faction, domestic or international, that disagrees with something we do the right to attack us. There is a high road - I agree, but those who commit atocities or aid/abet them need to be brought to justice. Many people have died in America's history for the freedom we enjoy and take for granted.

To not remove Bin Laden (or the faction responsible) would be pissing on the graves of all of those innocent people who died yesterday.

 

[UNCjigga]

Some great comments guys. To clarify my stance on what we do when we attack Afghanistan...

I don't believe all Afghanis need to suffer at our hand. We've helped deliver them from the Soviets before (okay, we helped minimally and didn't accomplish anything, but even bin Laden knows where his first brand-new guns came from! Good ol' American M16s!!)

We should concentrate on coercing the Taliban to give up bin Laden, REMINDING them that we can remove them from power at will. IF they are to stubborn to accept this fact or are too stupid to comply, then we can legitimately charge the Taliban government with harboring Osama bin Laden and we can connect bin Laden to the government. Once we've done that, it is easy to understand that an act of war was committed by Afghanistan against the US first! We definately have retaliatory rights, and I believe we can remove the Taliban from power WITH FEWER CASUALTIES THAN THE WTC ATTACK! This becomes a just war, and no one (not the UN, not NATO, not the EU) can say anything to the contrary.

We can work with the rebels on establishing a new government that is ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN (and in the palms of our hands!) No matter how deep the Arab hatred of America may be, no new government would refuse this chance to be tied in with the US. It establishes their legitimacy. The rebels will also provide us with manpower for an attack, and it just feels right because real Afghanis are fighting alongside us.

 

[Muse]

<< I was doing more reading of news and now the Taliban would like "evidence" of Bin Laden's involvement in the terrorist acts and THEN they would look into it and help. When asked about the location of Bin Laden, the foreign minister danced around the question by saying "He's not .... in this hotel." (The hotel in Kabul where the news conference was held). Similarly when asked about whether this would damage US/Afghan relations he said "There is no relationship."

1.) Afghanistan is not sorry about this atocity.
2.) They will not help in the location or extradition of Bin Laden.

If our investigation continues to turn up evidence of Bin Laden - We need to take him out. Not bomb him, but make damn sure we kill him. Not like Desert Storm where we left Sadaam in power.

Speaking of whom - Does Iraq or Libya have the terrorist powers to pull something like this off? >>

Good question, and I saw interviews of a couple of experts last night on network TV in which they asked the same question. In particular, it was suggested and forcefully maintained that yesterday's terrorist actions were not in the m.o. of Bin Laden, and that therefore we should step back and consider the possibility that others were integrally involved. Personally, I think that even if Bin Laden were not involved (I think this highly unlikely), we are justified in taking him out since he does so much to promote terrorist actions against the US. We should have taken him out long ago and maybe this would not have happened. If we find that Hussein was also responsible for yesterday's actions, we should see to it that he is removed, which we should have done before as well. I don't see anything short of an invasion of the middle east in the offing.

 

[hungrypete]

very nice JIGGA



<< Already, we've seen them light up the night skies in Kabul with mortar fire. >>



I think they are ready to go.
While we have our heads in the sky:
Is it possible that last night's attack was to show the US it is ready, and perhaps the rebels have information about yesterday's attack? I recall CNN saying there hasn't been an attack like that in months.

 

[StickHead]

They can be as ready as they want. We could blow them out of the skys with a vary acceptable loss of life(none) and in a short period of time. Come on this is the USA, you know the most powerful nation in the world!

 

[KyRNzKeWL]

I really get sleepy if I read or write 3 or more paragraphs. I think that's why I was about fail my history course.

 

[hungrypete]

<< They can be as ready as they want. We could blow them out of the skys with a vary acceptable loss of life(none) and in a short period of time. Come on this is the USA, you know the most powerful nation in the world! >>



If you are replying to me, "they" would be our 'allies' in Afghanistan, the people who want to overthrow the Taliban.