Why I think the Miami bust is a sham.

[RichardE]

I think this entire prosecution is being based on a PR issue. That the feds need to show they are stopping real terrorism.

Firstly. These people were made to be bad, the ones who would bring the next 9/11. Destroy the Searws Tower ect. Terror Terror Terror.

Yet, even the debuty director of the FBI stated.

Text

Mr. Gonzales acknowledged that the men, who had neither weapons nor explosives, posed "no immediate threat." But he added, "they did take sufficient steps that we believe does support this prosecution."

So, the debuty director does not think that even these people were dangerous.

Ontop of this, the agent involved looks more and more like the person who was the orginal one pushing these people

"On or about December 16, 2005, Narseal Batiste provided the 'al Qaeda representative' (actually the FBI informant) with a list of materials and equipment needed in order to wage jihad, which list included boots, uniforms, machine guns, radios and vehicles," the indictment said. The indictment said the group's aim was to " 'kill all the devils we can' in a mission that would 'be just as good or greater than 9/11.' "

But officials said the plot never progressed beyond the early planning stages and the group had no known contact with al-Qaeda. Batiste allegedly recorded video of the U.S. courthouse and other federal buildings in Miami as part of a casing operation, but the camera was provided by the government informant, the indictment said.

Text

Let us not forget from the first article, that the in the list of demands was 50k.

In one of the first acts, the court papers say, the conspirators gave the informer their shoe sizes so he could buy them military boots. Later, the documents continue, Mr. Batiste gave the informer lists of other items needed for the proposed war like uniforms, binoculars, radios, vehicles, bulletproof vests, machine guns and $50,000 in cash.

Text


So now we have a groupd of poor people who are asking for 50k from a guy who offers it to them in exchange for loyalty oaths and taking pictures of buildings.

But you say, they would have gone through with it if there were real terrorists!

Last month, after months of meeting the fake Qaeda representative, Mr. Batiste told him that "he was experiencing delays because of various problems within his organization" but still hoped to continue his mission of building an "Islamic army" to wage jihad against the United States, the indictment said.

Text

So after the money was obviosuly not going to be delivered, the sham fell apart and the lil terrorist group disapered.

What we saw here was the US goverment purposely making potential terrorist through the use of bribery, than busting them. These people were never threat until the government offered them cash. When the cash didn't come through, the groupd disolved. All I think these people were doing was trying to get the 50k and split, thats it. All they had to do was take an oath and take a few pictures and they were offered it.

 

[Sloppy]

I agree. Playing ninja when I was 5 didn't mean I was going to go chop some people up.

The article described the men as more like a terrorist parody than anything really dangerous.

 

[miketheidiot]

this whole incident has seemed a bit odd since it came to light

 

[wazzledoozle]

I agree, the whole deal sounds way overblown. Doesn't offering them money fall under entrapment? Which is illegal...

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

It's an odd case. Prosecutors like conspiracy charges because it's easy to indict and relatively easy to convict. But you cannot convict people based on "thinking" about doing something. They actually have to take some action to prove a conspiracy.

The problem for the prosecution is that the "accused" had no plan, no means, and no allegiance to Al Qaeda . . . until they met a federal agent.

 

[MadRat]

This is obviously a group that WOULD HAVE carried out the mission. This is a case that Bush and Gonzales will not get a bad rap for seeking prosecution.

Unfortunately the feds that busted them may have also manufactured their own threat by coaxing their behavior they sought to prosecute.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: MadRat
This is obviously a group that WOULD HAVE carried out the mission. This is a case that Bush and Gonzales will not get a bad rap for seeking prosecution.

Unfortunately the feds that busted them may have also manufactured their own threat by coaxing their behavior they sought to prosecute.

Oh come on. Ever been to Liberty City???

These 7 don't even have a combined IQ of a 100.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: MadRat
This is obviously a group that WOULD HAVE carried out the mission. This is a case that Bush and Gonzales will not get a bad rap for seeking prosecution.

Unfortunately the feds that busted them may have also manufactured their own threat by coaxing their behavior they sought to prosecute.

But you say, they would have gone through with it if there were real terrorists!

Last month, after months of meeting the fake Qaeda representative, Mr. Batiste told him that "he was experiencing delays because of various problems within his organization" but still hoped to continue his mission of building an "Islamic army" to wage jihad against the United States, the indictment said.

Text

So after the money was obviosuly not going to be delivered, the sham fell apart and the lil terrorist group disapered.

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: MadRat
This is obviously a group that WOULD HAVE carried out the mission. This is a case that Bush and Gonzales will not get a bad rap for seeking prosecution.

Unfortunately the feds that busted them may have also manufactured their own threat by coaxing their behavior they sought to prosecute.

I quess we are lucky that the fbi didnt suply them with explosives.... like the first world trade center bombing.

 

[BBond]

It's an election year. bush and his "republicans" are trotting out this same tired boogeymen along with the dangers of homosexual marriage and flag burning.

I'm sure they'll be raising the terror alert level before Summer ends and continue to do so until the elections. I find it hard to believe that Americans are now dumbed down to the point where they'll fall for this same crap every election year.

 

[zendari]

Haha, keep drinking the koolaid.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BBond
It's an election year. bush and his "republicans" are trotting out this same tired boogeymen along with the dangers of homosexual marriage and flag burning.

I'm sure they'll be raising the terror alert level before Summer ends and continue to do so until the elections. I find it hard to believe that Americans are now dumbed down to the point where they'll fall for this same crap every election year.

Wouldn't be surprised if these arrests were politically motivated, but that doesn't mean these guys were not a threat or had intent to be a threat. It does seem like the FBI jumped the gun in this case and should have waited until further developement had occured in this conspiracy.

 

[Zebo]

So you think they were just tying to rob Al Qaeda?

Well asking for materials, weapons and stating motive and wanting of blowing things up IMO is enough. Too many people would die to take a chance that they were "just joshing" around. Should they have waiting till detonators were planted> Or the building blew before arresting? I guess I'm asking at what time during investigation do you feel is proper for arrest?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Zebo
So you think they were just tying to rob Al Qaeda?

Well asking for materials, weapons and stating motive and wanting of blowing things up IMO is enough. Too many people would die to take a chance that they were "just joshing" around. Should they have waiting till detonators were planted> Or the building blew before arresting? I guess I'm asking at what time during investigation do you feel is proper for arrest?

Since there only source was the US Government I would assume that they would not sell them anything.

Not only that, but the FBI director himself said they were not a threat. In the months beforehand nothing had happened because the persons "organization" fell apart. The only time the feds moved in was when it was obvious nothing was going to happen.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: BBond
It's an election year. bush and his "republicans" are trotting out this same tired boogeymen along with the dangers of homosexual marriage and flag burning.

I'm sure they'll be raising the terror alert level before Summer ends and continue to do so until the elections. I find it hard to believe that Americans are now dumbed down to the point where they'll fall for this same crap every election year.

Maybe it won't work this time. Either way, it will be interesting to see where this case goes.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: RichardE
. In the months beforehand nothing had happened because the persons "organization" fell apart. The only time the feds moved in was when it was obvious nothing was going to happen.

I missed that in your narrative above. Where did Gonzo say this? Your interpretation of problem within the organization is a WAG. Could be they wanted to fine tune what weapons they wanted. Were still planning. Where holding our for more monies.. thye were on the the FBI agent...anything. But it does'nt say "it fell apart"

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: RichardE


Not only that, but the FBI director himself said they were not a threat.

That's not what Gonzales said. He said they posed no immediate threat. Just wondering if you really are functionally illiterate or simply misrepresenting a statement because of political motive.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: RichardE


Not only that, but the FBI director himself said they were not a threat.

That's not what Gonzales said. He said they posed no immediate threat. Just wondering if you really are functionally illiterate or simply misrepresenting a statement because of political motive.

06/22/2006 09:06 PM

Originally posted by: alchemize

The immediate leftist pooh poohing begins.

 

[Bowfinger]

(From the other thread: )

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Yawn, more election year bs.

I am concerned it may be something worse.

First and foremost, if these guys were really doing what the government claims, then kudos to the FBI for shutting them down before they ever got started. It may be an example of law enforcement at its best, potentially saving scores, even hundreds of lives. Great work!

My concern, however, is how certain interests may exploit this. BushCo shamelessly exploited 9/11, crying it was such a threatening event that it changed all the rules, eroding American civil liberties with the claim that this made America safer. They deflected much of the bi-partisan opposition by rationalizing that it only impacted those with ties to foreign terrorism. Now that the furor has died down and [ mixed metaphor alert ] the sheeple have grown accustomed to being simmered alive, it's time to turn the burner up a few more degrees.

I'm getting déjà vu seeing the way this is being played in the press. For example, the allegedly "liberal" CNN ran a feature article about the arrests this morning. It stressed the lack of connection to al Qaeda, hyping the home-grown nature of this "plot", that little cells like this are popping up all over, that they are virtually undectable since they don't fit the Arab racial profile, and that the cells communicate through the "shadows of the Internet" (IIRC). In short, it is exactly the kind of fear-mongering the Bush administration needs to retroactvely justify and broaden their domestic spying activites. It provides more fuel for those who want to turn the United States into a Soviet-style police state.

I hope I am wrong.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
I agree, the whole deal sounds way overblown. Doesn't offering them money fall under entrapment? Which is illegal...

It's not entrapment...entrapment is only entrapment when the police coax you into doing something you wouldn't otherwise do. In this case, they were intent on carrying out the "mission" so it wouldn't fall under entrapment.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: RichardE
. In the months beforehand nothing had happened because the persons "organization" fell apart. The only time the feds moved in was when it was obvious nothing was going to happen.

I missed that in your narrative above. Where did Gonzo say this? Your interpretation of problem within the organization is a WAG. Could be they wanted to fine tune what weapons they wanted. Were still planning. Where holding our for more monies.. thye were on the the FBI agent...anything. But it does'nt say "it fell apart"

But officials said the plot never progressed beyond the early planning stages and the group had no known contact with al-Qaeda.

How could they pose a threat when there only contact was a government official offering them everything?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
I agree, the whole deal sounds way overblown. Doesn't offering them money fall under entrapment? Which is illegal...

It's not entrapment...entrapment is only entrapment when the police coax you into doing something you wouldn't otherwise do. In this case, they were intent on carrying out the "mission" so it wouldn't fall under entrapment.

How do we know there were going to carry it out? They never progressed past talking about it, taking pictures. Months went by with nothing, they did not have any other contacts besides the government official.

We have laws in place, so crazy people, people with vengences cannot easible obtain the neccesaary items needed for a terrorist act. These people were kept under control by those laws until a government official came by and offered them money ect.

They had no contact with anyone besides the government official, he was there only contact to the terrrorist network.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: MadRat
This is obviously a group that WOULD HAVE carried out the mission. This is a case that Bush and Gonzales will not get a bad rap for seeking prosecution.

Unfortunately the feds that busted them may have also manufactured their own threat by coaxing their behavior they sought to prosecute.

Oh come on. Ever been to Liberty City???

These 7 don't even have a combined IQ of a 100.

Well if they're that safe we should let them out and they can live next to you and your family

 

[herkulease]

Originally posted by: RichardE
How do we know there were going to carry it out? They never progressed past talking about it, taking pictures. Months went by with nothing, they did not have any other contacts besides the government official.

We have laws in place, so crazy people, people with vengences cannot easible obtain the neccesaary items needed for a terrorist act. These people were kept under control by those laws until a government official came by and offered them money ect.

They had no contact with anyone besides the government official, he was there only contact to the terrrorist network.

Didn't one of hte articles you link to said they started placing calls to foreign agents looking for help? And they happened to call a person who decided to tell the FBI. and then the ball got rolling with the FBI undercover agent doing his part. I see it as more as luck that they called a person who told the FBI. They coudl easily continue calling someone until they found a helper.

I also don't think they are stupid morons some make them out to be. Its not like foreign agents contact info are posted on some bulletin board. They had to know someone to get such information.

What i want to know is who put the idea of the sears tower into them. The articles don't seem to make it clear, it could be read that the agent did or they wanted to do it and provided the fbi guy with a list of supplies.

Personally I would not do any undercover work once informed of their shopping. Rather track them see if they do find a helper. then nabbed everyone once the ball gets going.

 

[palehorse]

tinfoil hats are cool.

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