• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Why I REEEALLY hate this throttle-by-wire crap!!! (YAToyotaThrottle prob)....

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
No delay on my TBW. Love it. Just wish the sport setting was default rather than needing to be selected again after the ignition has been off.
 
Pulsar said:
Let's also be straight up here, if what you say were true how come the millions of throttle WITH cable cars on the road haven't dumped their tranny - even the ones with powerful engines?

Companies implementing this torque management system are using a bandaid to fix an under engineered tranny. This isn't a tradeoff, it's shoddy engineering. For instance, dodge (surprise): they call it Torque management, and it's a band-aid that keeps the hemi from dumping on the transmission.

It's pretty simple. There are good drive-by-wire systems, and there are bad ones. There are even worse ones where they use the computer as an intermediary to actually modify how you drive because they can't engineer it to work any better.

P.S. Front wheel drive camry has a "powerful" engine? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Click to expand...
Look at the '98+ automatic accords and you'll quickly discover that the reason they were considered to have "glass transmissions" is because of a more powerful engine.. While torque limiting the transmission feels kind of shitty, they do it because they know HP # sells cars regardless of launch performance. They'd have to make a much better, HEAVIER transmission just to improve launch performance, something they don't advertise. I wouldn't call it "shoddy engineering" but it really is a trade-off and the trade-off is less launch performance which means they can use cheaper, lighter transmissions that take up less space. Heavy duty transmissions take up a hell of a lot more space.

The Camry engine is far too powerful for the vehicle it comes in and consequently the only way to get the full power of the vehicle is when you're already going insane speeds so the power of the engine is essentially pointless because of what we've already established, that the drive-by-wire system is torque limiting the engine in order to allow the manufacturer to use cheaper, lighter, smaller transmissions. It's stupid anyway as engines are already far more powerful than they need be, what we need to do is transition to smaller engines and then have advertising wars over something like "launch" performance or something...
 
I'll be the devil's advocate here and say that I absolutely love the TBW in both my 03 Accord V6 and my 06 S2000. Pedal feel is much silkier and easier to modulate in small increments than cable throttles I've driven in the past, and I have no response issues whatsoever. When I was experimenting with hyper-miling the Accord, I trained myself to adjust the throttle in increments smaller than 1%, enough to affect instantaneous mileage without budging the 1%-increment TPS gauge on my Scangauge. So they have very fine resolution on the sensors.

The only slightly weird thing is having the pedal fully return to zero when using cruise control.
 
fleabag said:
Look at the '98+ automatic accords and you'll quickly discover that the reason they were considered to have "glass transmissions" is because of a more powerful engine.. While torque limiting the transmission feels kind of shitty, they do it because they know HP # sells cars regardless of launch performance. They'd have to make a much better, HEAVIER transmission just to improve launch performance, something they don't advertise. I wouldn't call it "shoddy engineering" but it really is a trade-off and the trade-off is less launch performance which means they can use cheaper, lighter transmissions that take up less space. Heavy duty transmissions take up a hell of a lot more space.

The Camry engine is far too powerful for the vehicle it comes in and consequently the only way to get the full power of the vehicle is when you're already going insane speeds so the power of the engine is essentially pointless because of what we've already established, that the drive-by-wire system is torque limiting the engine in order to allow the manufacturer to use cheaper, lighter, smaller transmissions. It's stupid anyway as engines are already far more powerful than they need be, what we need to do is transition to smaller engines and then have advertising wars over something like "launch" performance or something...
Click to expand...

Uhhh what?
 
Wait until you're stuck in a little snow bank that any other car could rock out of and then you'll really discover what you hate about throttle by wire!!!!
 
Squisher said:
Wait until you're stuck in a little snow bank that any other car could rock out of and then you'll really discover what you hate about throttle by wire!!!!
Click to expand...
That has to do with your car's traction control system.. not throttle by wire.
 
Pulsar said:
In hondas:
After each shift, or any sudden release of the throttle, the engine "burps,"
emitting high concentrations of exhaust emissions. The ECU has a delay,
or a map that allows the revs to drop slowly, in a controlled manner, to
reduce the amount of emissions emitted while revving-down.
Click to expand...

??
My last car was a Honda Civic and it didn't do anything like this. The engine rpm is 100% controlled by the transmission because the two are directly coupled. While not in gear, it would immediately drop to ~800rpm


Look at the '98+ automatic accords and you'll quickly discover that the reason they were considered to have "glass transmissions" is because of a more powerful engine
Click to expand...
If the automatic transmissions are failing but the manuals are not, wouldn't that mean it was failing because the transmission was a piece of shit? If the engine was too powerful, wouldn't the manual transmissions fail as well?

The Camry engine is far too powerful for the vehicle it comes in and consequently the only way to get the full power of the vehicle is when you're already going insane speeds
Click to expand...
This would make a lot of sense from a design point of view. I think my shitbox 4 cylinder performs great in the city but the highway performance is horrible because the engine runs out of power. Power = torque x rotation speed. Low power at high rotation speed means low torque - I can't safely pass other cars 🙁
 
Last edited:
Squisher said:
No, with all these electronically controlled engines/trans means that wheels have to come to a full stop and your foot must be on the brake to shift.
Click to expand...

Not with mine either. The only time my foot has to be on the brake is to shift out of park.
 
wiretap said:
Not with mine..
Click to expand...

I think I know what he's talking about. Cars I've owned that have automatic transmissions can be switched between forward and reverse without coming to a full stop, which is extremely bad for the transmission. My Honda had a manual transmission and it would not let me switch into reverse until the car was either rolling in reverse or had come to a complete stop. This is because the wheels should only spin backward when the engine and transmission are spinning forward. I can't put it into reverse while going forward (rocking) because that would mean the transmission would need to be spinning backward. This has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of throttle the car has. It's also a bit of a safety feature so you don't accidentally switch into reverse while going 80mph.

That Honda was also very touchy about the gears being lined up before it would switch into reverse. Sometimes it just wouldn't go into that gear. What I had to do was let the clutch out a little bit while trying to shift into reverse. Stuff would move around just enough to let it shift into gear. First gear did that too sometimes.

A better explanation can be found through google
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f5/manual-transmission-sometimes-will-not-go-into-reverse-24271/
(posted by Gerry)
It happens on all manual transmissions. It's because reverse is the only gear that actually has to move in the transmission and if the cogs are not lined up, the gear can't mesh. You can alleviate this by either shifting into another gear with the clutch depressed and then going into reverse or putting the trans in neutral, letting out the clutch, then depressing the clutch again to get reverse. All you're doing when you do either of these is moving the cluster shaft a bit to help align the gears.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Squisher said:
Wait until you're stuck in a little snow bank that any other car could rock out of and then you'll really discover what you hate about throttle by wire!!!!
Click to expand...

i don't think you actually know how to rock yourself out of mud or snow, because it doesn't involve slamming the car into reverse while the wheels are still spinning forward.

this entire thread is fail.
 
brblx said:
i don't think you actually know how to rock yourself out of mud or snow, because it doesn't involve slamming the car into reverse while the wheels are still spinning forward.

this entire thread is fail.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know how to rock a car out of the snow. I've been driving RWD cars since 1973 in Michigan winters. No slamming needed. Just gentle back and forth. Maybe, my experience is unique seeing my frustration is from my Prius. There is just no way to shift fast enough to rock the car out. The wife got it stuck last year trying to get mail out of the mailbox and the only thing stuck was one tire a little bit in the snow bank. It should have been a cinch, however there was no way to get the engine to to pull it out. As soon as the wheels spun a little, shifting in the other direction meant waiting for the wheel to slow down to almost nothing before the trans would even think about changing gears.
 
BUTCH1 said:
How, exactly is that gizmo going to improve performance one bit?..
Click to expand...
Performance as in horsepower/torque? It doesn't. It's a throttle controller. It allows for more aggressive/quicker opening of the throttle depending on the setting you put it to. It's more of a race application than a street application.
 
Squisher said:
Prius.
Click to expand...

there's your problem.

using a hybrid to condemn throttle by wire is silly. using the most worthless hybrid is even sillier.

prius are made for people who need mittens pinned to their jackets year-round. it's not going to give you the control you need to do anything other than drive to work on dry road.
 
wiretap said:
Performance as in horsepower/torque? It doesn't. It's a throttle controller. It allows for more aggressive/quicker opening of the throttle depending on the setting you put it to. It's more of a race application than a street application.
Click to expand...

Oh,OK, so it gets to WOT faster than a stock setup right?. There are no neat mods for my car, the only mod is to sell it..🙁
 
BUTCH1 said:
Oh,OK, so it gets to WOT faster than a stock setup right?. There are no neat mods for my car, the only mod is to sell it..🙁
Click to expand...
Correct. It especially helps with a turbocharged vehicle where the speed of the throttle opening can make a difference with hitting boost sooner. With the throttle controller installed, hitting your accelerator makes the car feel like it is on steroids. It increases sensitivity and quickness dramatically.
 
wiretap said:
Correct. It especially helps with a turbocharged vehicle where the speed of the throttle opening can make a difference with hitting boost sooner. With the throttle controller installed, hitting your accelerator makes the car feel like it is on steroids. It increases sensitivity and quickness dramatically.
Click to expand...

Another allure to that device is that it can do the opposite, SLOW throttle response. If you've got a very high strung, high boost engine (say, an STi or something) and you're stuck in traffic/on a date/lots of other scenarios i can think of, you can dial throttle response down a bit so response is a little smoother.

And pulsar, there are LOTS of vehicles that limit torque in 1st, and sometimes second. Ecotecs, for example. the GT-R, tundras...etc. Sometimes it's for the tranny (GT-R) and sometimes it's to wrangle with wheelspin (Cobalt SS, MS3).
 
ShawnD1 said:
That Honda was also very touchy about the gears being lined up before it would switch into reverse. Sometimes it just wouldn't go into that gear. What I had to do was let the clutch out a little bit while trying to shift into reverse. Stuff would move around just enough to let it shift into gear. First gear did that too sometimes.
Click to expand...
It's funny that you say that because I'm not sure if you're aware but at least for my '98 Civic, you must double clutch before shifting into reverse. If the terminology I'm using is not correct, let me explain. If you're going forward and you want to reverse, you must come to a complete stop, clutch in- shift into neutral, clutch out, clutch in, shift into reverse then clutch out, otherwise you'll grind gears or at the very least feel a very weird sensation in the shifter and it won't really respond to you. The reason for this is because the Reverse gear is not synchronized. I had unknowingly learned this when I first was driving my car and confirmed it when I read the Honda Service manual about a few days later...
 
Squisher said:
Wait until you're stuck in a little snow bank that any other car could rock out of and then you'll really discover what you hate about throttle by wire!!!!
Click to expand...

My Jeep greatly slows down the throttle response in 4 low for just such situations. Gives me much greater throttle control.
 
I prefer to drive constantly at WOT and just use the brake to control my speed.

Seriously though... I have an '08 Altima Coupe with the 2.5L I4 and CVT. At first the throttle felt odd, very touchy. It didn't take long to get used to. In fact, I experience the same thing when driving my mom's 2001 Sable. I think it's more an issue of you not being used to the feel of it, not that it's TBW.

However, I do notice a delay when I punch it while already moving, especially at high speed (60+ mph). I think this is due to the computer coordinating the throttle position and "gear ratio" of the CVT. It's no big deal really and I'm sure it helps reduce shock loads and reduces emissions considering flinging the throttle open and slamming it shut creates less than optimal air:fuel ratios.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top