Why I miss the USSR

[Steeplerot]

Domestically, the US could criticize the Soviets for being less democratic because the US had to show the world in being the example to follow.

With the Soviets gone, we are less democratic.

Internationally, the US (acting on behalf of corporations) could use the Soviet Union as the proliferator of authoritarian rule while acting as the defender of democracy (democracy being code word for predatory capitalism)- forming alliances, using international support at the UN to carry out the will of the international community.

With the Soviets gone, the US no longer has to pretend to be the defender of democracy and acts unilaterally to expand its economic control where it sees fit.

Just a random thought of why we abuse our superpower status so blatently and have so little regard for a free society now, what do we have to compare ourselves to?

Third world countries of tinpot dictators and religious extremists? They are not our "equal" and rather someone we can roll over on at will. (as long as they do not have nukes)

If only the Russians created a free society that we could compete for who had the MOST freedoms.

Any thoughts as to what we should gauge our freedoms on without a real competitor?

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Indeed.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely whether it's on an individual level or a nation state level.

Balance of power ftw!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Indeed.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely whether it's on an individual level or a nation state level.

Balance of power ftw!

The part that gets me is since we have no real incentive to be good to our people now and lead by example, our main motivation is profit being #1.

It is already coming out in peoples views, you can hear the calls for slashing all the achivements we have made for a better society for maximum profit potential, will we become another tinpot third world dictatorship for the profits of a few?

Nothing is stopping the ones in power from doing so and the common person is only thinking about short term gains.



Capitalist greed the SU always accused us of as being our main fault may just be our downfall.


Observe your enemies, for they first find out your faults.

Antisthenes (445 BC - 365 BC)

 

[ScudRunner]

Iran is the country that should be our next target. They have supported terrorism more than any other country in world history. Now they are developing nuclear weapons, it's time to stop them.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
Iran is the country that should be our next target. They have supported terrorism more than any other country in world history. Now they are developing nuclear weapons, it's time to stop them.

Please, stay on topic, plenty of TWOT threads to troll with this dittohead nonsense.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
Iran is the country that should be our next target. They have supported terrorism more than any other country in world history. Now they are developing nuclear weapons, it's time to stop them.

Please, stay on topic, plenty of TWOT threads to troll with this dittohead nonsense.

Actually, it IS kind of on topic...but not the way ScudRunner intended it to be. His statement is wrong, by a long shot. In terms of supporting terrorists the most in the history of the world, it was got to be a toss up between the US and the USSR. It's hard to say who's more at fault for the huge mess we find ourselves currently in with regard to terrorism, but it's worth noting that all three of the current major problem areas (Iran, Al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq) can be DIRECTLY traced to various things we did in a misguided attempt to fight the Soviets.

The reason I think this ties in with the thread topic is that it points out the folly of the kind of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that dominated the Cold War. Supporting all kinds of nasty people was "ok" during the Cold War because all we really cared about was fighting the Soviet Union. With them gone, our past actions are coming back to haunt us in more ways than one. Not only are such tactics no longer acceptable, but our approach even from back when they WERE acceptable is currently biting us in the ass.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
Iran is the country that should be our next target. They have supported terrorism more than any other country in world history. Now they are developing nuclear weapons, it's time to stop them.

Please, stay on topic, plenty of TWOT threads to troll with this dittohead nonsense.

Actually, it IS kind of on topic...but not the way ScudRunner intended it to be. His statement is wrong, by a long shot. In terms of supporting terrorists the most in the history of the world, it was got to be a toss up between the US and the USSR. It's hard to say who's more at fault for the huge mess we find ourselves currently in with regard to terrorism, but it's worth noting that all three of the current major problem areas (Iran, Al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq) can be DIRECTLY traced to various things we did in a misguided attempt to fight the Soviets.

The reason I think this ties in with the thread topic is that it points out the folly of the kind of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that dominated the Cold War. Supporting all kinds of nasty people was "ok" during the Cold War because all we really cared about was fighting the Soviet Union. With them gone, our past actions are coming back to haunt us in more ways than one. Not only are such tactics no longer acceptable, but our approach even from back when they WERE acceptable is currently biting us in the ass.

I am sure he was not making that point though although I did see that, and I agree with you, I have been reading about what you speak of lately and am just furious how widespread this mess we make to support our lifestyle goes, and how much of a disconnect the average american has.

 

[ScudRunner]

You can say our support for some countries was wrong, but we defeated the USSR in the Cold War!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
You can say our support for some countries was wrong, but we defeated the USSR in the Cold War!

That is EXACTLY the mentality I'm talking about. We were so fixated on the current goal that we ended up screwing ourselves down the road. I'm confident if we had thought ahead, we could have effectivly fought the USSR AND not set ourselves up for a worldwide terrorist problem a decade later.

And Reagan nonsense aside, the only people who defeated the USSR were the Russians. The USSR imploded, all we did was make sure they didn't take the rest of the world down with them when they did.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
Iran is the country that should be our next target. They have supported terrorism more than any other country in world history. Now they are developing nuclear weapons, it's time to stop them.

Please, stay on topic, plenty of TWOT threads to troll with this dittohead nonsense.

Actually, it IS kind of on topic...but not the way ScudRunner intended it to be. His statement is wrong, by a long shot. In terms of supporting terrorists the most in the history of the world, it was got to be a toss up between the US and the USSR. It's hard to say who's more at fault for the huge mess we find ourselves currently in with regard to terrorism, but it's worth noting that all three of the current major problem areas (Iran, Al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq) can be DIRECTLY traced to various things we did in a misguided attempt to fight the Soviets.

The reason I think this ties in with the thread topic is that it points out the folly of the kind of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that dominated the Cold War. Supporting all kinds of nasty people was "ok" during the Cold War because all we really cared about was fighting the Soviet Union. With them gone, our past actions are coming back to haunt us in more ways than one. Not only are such tactics no longer acceptable, but our approach even from back when they WERE acceptable is currently biting us in the ass.

I am sure he was not making that point though although I did see that, and I agree with you, I have been reading about what you speak of lately and am just furious how widespread this mess we make to support our lifestyle goes, and how much of a disconnect the average american has.

Someone made an interesting point back when Bush officials were still trying to make the argument that Saddam and Osama were linked. They pointed out that looking at ALL the evidence, our country had given far more support to both of those groups than they ever gave to each other. And it wasn't just when they were "nice" either, we continued to give weapons (including CHEMICAL weapons if I remember correctly) after Saddam killed all those Kurds that we're so upset about now.

I'm fine with Saddam being on trial of course, I just think there are at least a few Americans who belong there beside him.

 

[palehorse]

im almost positive that the primary reason Steeplerot misses the USSR is because they were paying her a great deal of money to work for them... or perhaps she had her eye on a nice Dacha outside of Moscow, but those pesky capitalists have now gone and ruined everything?

ya... im pretty sure that is why Steeple stays up late at night crying...

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
Iran is the country that should be our next target. They have supported terrorism more than any other country in world history. Now they are developing nuclear weapons, it's time to stop them.

Please, stay on topic, plenty of TWOT threads to troll with this dittohead nonsense.

Actually, it IS kind of on topic...but not the way ScudRunner intended it to be. His statement is wrong, by a long shot. In terms of supporting terrorists the most in the history of the world, it was got to be a toss up between the US and the USSR. It's hard to say who's more at fault for the huge mess we find ourselves currently in with regard to terrorism, but it's worth noting that all three of the current major problem areas (Iran, Al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq) can be DIRECTLY traced to various things we did in a misguided attempt to fight the Soviets.

The reason I think this ties in with the thread topic is that it points out the folly of the kind of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" thinking that dominated the Cold War. Supporting all kinds of nasty people was "ok" during the Cold War because all we really cared about was fighting the Soviet Union. With them gone, our past actions are coming back to haunt us in more ways than one. Not only are such tactics no longer acceptable, but our approach even from back when they WERE acceptable is currently biting us in the ass.

It's kind of interesting. You can trace those 3 major problem areas (Iran, Al-Qaeda and Saddam's Iraq) to the British Empire, probably the most genocidal regime in history.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
im almost positive that the primary reason Steeplerot misses the USSR is because they were paying her a great deal of money to work for them... or perhaps she had her eye on a nice Dacha outside of Moscow, but those pesky capitalists have now gone and ruined everything?

ya... im pretty sure that is why Steeple stays up late at night crying...

Crack out the tinfoil! Yep I sure miss those commie helicopters hovering over my house dropping me crates of money comrade. :roll:

Seriously, can you be any more retarted then the old commie leftist tripe?

Mccarthy called, and he says he is dead so you can can the commie conspiracys already.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
Iran is the country that should be our next target. They have supported terrorism more than any other country in world history. Now they are developing nuclear weapons, it's time to stop them.

Really? Iranian-sponsored terrorists haven't killed HALF as many people as the I.R.A.

I'm not even sure they have killed more than Libyan-sponsored terrorists - and Libya just came off probation and rejoined the world.

D'OH!!!

Wingnut....at least you provided three whole sentances this time...

Future Shock

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
You can say our support for some countries was wrong, but we defeated the USSR in the Cold War!

Yeah we did...in part by funding, arming, and training a little old mujaheen in Afghanistan named Osama bin Laden. WE CREATED HIM, as part of "defeated the USSR in the Cold War!" We put Al Quaeda in business...

Nice to see you are so happy about that.

Future Shock

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
You can say our support for some countries was wrong, but we defeated the USSR in the Cold War!

Yeah we did...in part by funding, arming, and training a little old mujaheen in Afghanistan named Osama bin Laden. WE CREATED HIM, as part of "defeated the USSR in the Cold War!" We put Al Quaeda in business...

Nice to see you are so happy about that.

Future Shock

actually, none of the money or training we provided via Pakistan's ISI went to Osama and his lot. The ISI made most of the decisions as to who amongst the Mujihideen received such assistance, and they didn't like Osama at all, and thus gave him very little, if any, assistance. Osama always had his own money and agenda in Afghanistan. Saying that we created him is an outright falicy.

I highly suggest you begin by reading "Ghost Wars" and move on from that to some other well-documented accounts of the US aid to the mujihdeen during their war with the USSR.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Future Shock

Originally posted by: ScudRunner
You can say our support for some countries was wrong, but we defeated the USSR in the Cold War!

Yeah we did...in part by funding, arming, and training a little old mujaheen in Afghanistan named Osama bin Laden. WE CREATED HIM, as part of "defeated the USSR in the Cold War!" We put Al Quaeda in business...

Nice to see you are so happy about that.

Future Shock

Osama Bin Laden wasn't funded or armed by the US. The US aligned itself with the native Afghanis. Al Qaeda has also claimed this. If anything, he was mostly created by the Soviets from their actions.

 

[GeNome]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

actually, none of the money or training we provided via Pakistan's ISI went to Osama and his lot. The ISI made most of the decisions as to who amongst the Mujihideen received such assistance, and they didn't like Osama at all, and thus gave him very little, if any, assistance. Osama always had his own money and agenda in Afghanistan. Saying that we created him is an outright falicy.

I highly suggest you begin by reading "Ghost Wars" and move on from that to some other well-documented accounts of the US aid to the mujihdeen during their war with the USSR.

Actually, you just (sort) of hit the nail on the head. From what I remember after reading Soldiers of God, a book on this exact topic, it's because the ISI didn't give Osama any weapons/supplies that he felt betrayed by the US. Of course, like you and CanOWorms said, the US didn't have anything to do with how weapons/supplies were distributed, so he really has no base for his angst, but from his point of view we did. < Speculation.

 

[1prophet]

Interesting videos on the threat of the Soviet Union


Discussed in this old P&N thread here

 

[theeedude]

I miss the USSR too. It was good clean fun
Not like now, the new designated "evil" guys just want to blow up stuff and chop people's heads off, no gamesmanship. At least USSR was playing the same Cold War game by the same rules.

 

[Colt45]

I miss SSSR too.

Partly because the US had to stop and think before it's actions then...

 

[Moonbeam]

Because we hate ourselves and don't know it, we feel our self hate is out there, as in the Soviet Union, so we and they spend decades and trillions defending ourselves from our own self generated hate. Then the Soviet Union dissolves because the Soviets couldn't afford their fear and leave us holding our own huge bag of insanity. Sure we miss them. We define ourselves as not the OTHER, the one who is dangerous and evil and without an enemy out there to focus our attention away from ourselves consciousness that our hate is our own threatens to draw near. So we invent enemy after enemy to insure we will always be insane.

You will now forget everything you just read. The pill you want is blue.

 

[trance247]

I lived most of my life in former USSR, trust me it was not as horrible as you guys think and they were not showing US from nice perspective too, we were brought up to hate you capitalist pigs ...the greatest experiment in communism/socialism fell because of tsunami like wave of corruption and indusrial theft that was about to engulf the countries of former USSR, so making small millitary coup was in the book solution to open the flood gates. Believe me when I say, that some people got rich beyond your wildest dreams by being in the right place in the right time. No empire last forever as they say and when there's blood on the street, buy property are both very true in this case.