Why I love Neil de Grasse Tyson. Interviewed by Ben Shapiro

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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This is a 2 year old interview but towards last 4th of the video note how he nails the state of our politics today.

I have other comments but I wait for other opinions. I will say several times Ben tried to do his Ben thing and watch Neil's response

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,911
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This is a 2 year old interview but towards last 4th of the video note how he nails the state of our politics today.

I have other comments but I wait for other opinions. I will say several times Ben tried to do his Ben thing and watch Neil's response


I saw two people having a very respectful discussion and one which I also thought was profoundly interesting. Thank you for posting it.

My bet, having experience on this liberal forum, is that the wonderful philosophical attitude Tyson exhibited in the discussion, the danger he suggested we face when we attempt to legislate biased opinion, will now be expressed tangentially in some form of Shapiro humiliation. He also should be thanked for having conducted it.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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I saw two people having a very respectful discussion and one which I also thought was profoundly interesting. Thank you for posting it.

My bet, having experience on this liberal forum, is that the wonderful philosophical attitude Tyson exhibited in the discussion, the danger he suggested we face when we attempt to legislate biased opinion, will now be expressed tangentially in some form of Shapiro humiliation. He also should be thanked for having conducted it.

Yo Moon ...Your boy is off the handle, could you dial him in?

 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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Shapiro may have a moment or two of sanity, but he is the guy behind the daily caller, so he can go eat shit
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Shapiro may have a moment or two of sanity, but he is the guy behind the daily caller, so he can go eat shit
Way to go. I don't know what you have experienced listening to Shapiro on the daily caller or if your opinion of him on there is influenced by what other people, likely on the left say, but you seem not to have brought that bias to this particular link and seen what he did there as reasonably fair minded and in the spirit of intelligent inquiry ass I did. About all I know of him is are some videos of him where I thought he was rather disrespectful of the people challenging him. Your post strikes me as very fair compared to many others where preexisting bias is brought in and ears are closed thereby. My post reflects only what I saw in the link and as I said, found it also very interesting. I found Tyson very impressive in my opinion and to a great degree because of the kinds of questions he was asked.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Yo Moon ...Your boy is off the handle, could you dial him in?

What exactly did you object to about his rant? There are two aspects of it that interest me. One is the issue of gender dysphoria and the other is the free expression of speech. I think he did a pretty good job of making the twitter mods look like fools but the only times I ever look at twitter is from linkages on this forum. My bet is that you don't like what he said but have no real ability to argue as to why that would be objectively convincing. Maybe he hurts your feelings.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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What exactly did you object to about his rant? There are two aspects of it that interest me. One is the issue of gender dysphoria and the other is the free expression of speech. I think he did a pretty good job of making the twitter mods look like fools but the only times I ever look at twitter is from linkages on this forum. My bet is that you don't like what he said but have no real ability to argue as to why that would be objectively convincing. Maybe he hurts your feelings.
He said trans wrong doctors criminal… and twitter suspended his account for it. The video you saw was a response to that.
He stepped up to someone. Said asshole. Consequences. Now he is ranting about it.
I thought it might be of interest to you since you have championed, excused, rationalized him here before.
So consider it public service. This the dude you wanna lobby for
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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He said trans wrong doctors criminal… and twitter suspended his account for it. The video you saw was a response to that.
He stepped up to someone. Said asshole. Consequences. Now he is ranting about it.
I thought it might be of interest to you since you have championed, excused, rationalized him here before.
So consider it public service. This the dude you wanna lobby for
[/QUOTE Here is the post:

"Remember when pride was a sin? And Ellen Page just had her breasts removed by a criminal Physician." Can you tell me in the notification from twitter that he account was being suspended exactly what in his statement was a violation of what rule. Apparently Peterson was left in the dark about the specifics. Did you actually listen to Peterson's response?

PS: I am not interested in lobbying for anybody. I am interested in what he has to say and whether any specific example of his arguments make sense to me.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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I might refer back to NDT. What was the purpose of his tweet? Was he trying to be an asshole or make a greater point? Did the doctor commit a crime? If not, a false criminal accusation could in itself be a crime or at minimum, libelous.

Does Ellen page having her breasts removed effect his life or anyone else's at all?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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blablabla… You are champion someone of social importance that argues that medical personal that aides in gender transformation is CRIMINALS.
Its ok. Say Peterson is a douchebag and we’ll call it even.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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I might refer back to NDT. What was the purpose of his tweet? Was he trying to be an asshole or make a greater point? Did the doctor commit a crime? If not, a false criminal accusation could in itself be a crime or at minimum, libelous.

Does Ellen page having her breasts removed effect his life or anyone else's at all?
Peterson makes the argument that pride used to be a sin. He clearly believes that it is. Now if it is not a sin then people like Trump really should face no criticism for his hubris. Personally I think you find him to be profoundly dangerous and deeply guilty of sin. His point is that the individual in question, you referred to her by what was it called, “a dead name” or whatever the gender police call such a crime, he sees the same pride in ‘the person we are referring to. As a public figure making a public announcement over a surgery, that person is influencing other young people in ways without any self conscious awareness of prideful sinning. That person is thus committing the crime of pride, assuming oneself being sinless while actually unaware it is really is sinful to suggest to other people it is not sinful by engaging is public display and speech about the surgery.

Any doctor enabling such prideful self mutilation would obviously be abetting such sin and thus also guilty of crime. It is pure logic from his moral perspective. You share his moral values but apply them elsewhere. I don’t take a position because I don’t understand what gender dysphoria nor do I know how society should deal with it.

Peterson suggest a least negative approach. Do no harm. Allow, for the sake of the easily influenced to simply let those with cross gender confusion deal with it personally and that society not push the issue.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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I saw two people having a very respectful discussion and one which I also thought was profoundly interesting. Thank you for posting it.

My bet, having experience on this liberal forum, is that the wonderful philosophical attitude Tyson exhibited in the discussion, the danger he suggested we face when we attempt to legislate biased opinion, will now be expressed tangentially in some form of Shapiro humiliation. He also should be thanked for having conducted it.

Tyson was respectful and measured as always. While Shapiro still believes that murdering non-combatant civilians is an acceptable form of warfare, and that such warfare is desirable. One is a genuinely noble human being, and the other is someone who wants to violently force his nobility on others, particularly those who might speak out against his ignobility.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Bye. Sorry if the Peterson thing didn’t work out so well. I know you hadn’t anticipated your bias would so easily reveal itself to be shallow. Maybe don’t bother to react to my posts if you aren’t serious about hashing them out.
Yaknow, it's hard to take seriously an illiberal aristocratic academic elitist who tries to change his external reality by preaching to other people that they shouldn't try to change their external realities until they've fixed themselves internally.. and then almost kills himself from anti-anxiety medication overdose. We're all imperfect. I get that, and am not judging. I'm just adverse to hypocrisy. Especially the kind of hypocrisy that is cynically crafted to oppress and otherwise keep people down.
The most powerful and influential people in this world have never waited until they were cured before to create change in the world around them. Not even Jordan Peterson. And I am confident he knows good and goddamned well what a hypocrite for pushing that BS.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,911
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Tyson was respectful and measured as always. While Shapiro still believes that murdering non-combatant civilians is an acceptable form of warfare, and that such warfare is desirable. One is a genuinely noble human being, and the other is someone who wants to violently force his nobility on others, particularly those who might speak out against his ignobility.
The most interesting point in the interview, in my opinion, was Tyson asking Shapiro why he cared. I find the same issue with Peterson. What is at root in each that causes that difference in perspective. For me personally, it seems like a difference in ego. Tyson, in my opinion, demonstrates a profound sense of comfort in his own skin, a certainty that the world is right, that truth does not need his help. He has a much greater ego presence for a complete lack on my part to have a name for what I am struggling to describe, by the presence of deep humility. He is not inwardly or neurotically impelled to have answers to moral guestions because I think he has not been infected with what I would call Shapiro’s and Peterson’s guilt trip, for lack of a better word.

Truth is always some third way is a sentiment that appeals to me. For and against and resolved as a non issue. Crusaders and people at peace.

What I wish is to have people not tell me who people like P and S are but to describe where they see can see that in their words. I think the two of them do that rather well with regards to people who attack them.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,911
6,790
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Tyson was respectful and measured as always. While Shapiro still believes that murdering non-combatant civilians is an acceptable form of warfare, and that such warfare is desirable. One is a genuinely noble human being, and the other is someone who wants to violently force his nobility on others, particularly those who might speak out against his ignobility.
Did you see that in the interview with Tyson or from familiarity with Shapiro more generally?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Peterson makes the argument that pride used to be a sin. He clearly believes that it is. Now if it is not a sin then people like Trump really should face no criticism for his hubris. Personally I think you find him to be profoundly dangerous and deeply guilty of sin. His point is that the individual in question, you referred to her by what was it called, “a dead name” or whatever the gender police call such a crime, he sees the same pride in ‘the person we are referring to. As a public figure making a public announcement over a surgery, that person is influencing other young people in ways without any self conscious awareness of prideful sinning. That person is thus committing the crime of pride, assuming oneself being sinless while actually unaware it is really is sinful to suggest to other people it is not sinful by engaging is public display and speech about the surgery.

Any doctor enabling such prideful self mutilation would obviously be abetting such sin and thus also guilty of crime. It is pure logic from his moral perspective. You share his moral values but apply them elsewhere. I don’t take a position because I don’t understand what gender dysphoria nor do I know how society should deal with it.

Peterson suggest a least negative approach. Do no harm. Allow, for the sake of the easily influenced to simply let those with cross gender confusion deal with it personally and that society not push the issue.

People don’t really care about Trump’s hubris. That part of him is a joke. He gets criticism because he is a racist asshole. An incompetent one.

Peterson wants to be the arbitrator of how people want to be referred. Same argument could be made when black people no longer wanted to be called Negro

I’ll tell you a personal story that I think sums this up. 25 years ago after a softball game having a few beers I referred to a cute Asian girl as oriental. She looked at me calmly and said, “I’m a person not a rug”. I never made that faux pas again and took no offense. I was thinking of asking her out before that. Ejected that idea.

Jordan Peterson fancies himself as the smartest guy in the room. Isn’t that the height of prideful?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,827
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The most interesting point in the interview, in my opinion, was Tyson asking Shapiro why he cared. I find the same issue with Peterson. What is at root in each that causes that difference in perspective. For me personally, it seems like a difference in ego. Tyson, in my opinion, demonstrates a profound sense of comfort in his own skin, a certainty that the world is right, that truth does not need his help. He has a much greater ego presence for a complete lack on my part to have a name for what I am struggling to describe, by the presence of deep humility. He is not inwardly or neurotically impelled to have answers to moral guestions because I think he has not been infected with what I would call Shapiro’s and Peterson’s guilt trip, for lack of a better word.

Truth is always some third way is a sentiment that appeals to me. For and against and resolved as a non issue. Crusaders and people at peace.

What I wish is to have people not tell me who people like P and S are but to describe where they see can see that in their words. I think the two of them do that rather well with regards to people who attack them.

He cares because being conservative is his job. He feeds pablum to the idiots and they send him money. He does the same thing as Candace Owens but is better at it. She thought be a self loathing black woman would be more profitable because righties love black people that turn on their own.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,827
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Anyone also notice Tyson takes time to think before answering a question. Ben just regurgitates.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Peterson makes the argument that pride used to be a sin. He clearly believes that it is. Now if it is not a sin then people like Trump really should face no criticism for his hubris. Personally I think you find him to be profoundly dangerous and deeply guilty of sin. His point is that the individual in question, you referred to her by what was it called, “a dead name” or whatever the gender police call such a crime, he sees the same pride in ‘the person we are referring to. As a public figure making a public announcement over a surgery, that person is influencing other young people in ways without any self conscious awareness of prideful sinning. That person is thus committing the crime of pride, assuming oneself being sinless while actually unaware it is really is sinful to suggest to other people it is not sinful by engaging is public display and speech about the surgery.

Any doctor enabling such prideful self mutilation would obviously be abetting such sin and thus also guilty of crime. It is pure logic from his moral perspective. You share his moral values but apply them elsewhere. I don’t take a position because I don’t understand what gender dysphoria nor do I know how society should deal with it.

Peterson suggest a least negative approach. Do no harm. Allow, for the sake of the easily influenced to simply let those with cross gender confusion deal with it personally and that society not push the issue.
The sin of pride refers to excessive self-regard, not the existence of any self-regard at all, so basically that destroys your entire argument.

It is continually amusing to me that you think that Jordan 'there's no such thing as climate' Peterson as anything other than a poseur and a grifter.