Why I don't think it's a good idea for kids to have to buy their own cars...

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
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I know a lot of you on here are going to flame me for this, but I want to say it anyway. Recently a lot of people on here have become critical of those that are given help by their parents with the purchase of a car and insurance on or shortly after their 16th birthday. Some of it is probably jealousy (I feel it too...), but some of it is the belief that teenagers (incl. Dr. Laura, just FYI) should have to take car of all the expenses related to a car. I for one believe that while it is important for teenagers to take care of expenses to learn responsbility, having to pay for everything does more harm than good.

First of all, I am not trying to justify that Mr. Richie Rich that receives an M3 on his 16th deserves it. I don't even think the same would be true if it was a Mustang instead of an M3. I am talking about someone who receives a slightly late-model (mid 90s) acceptable car (accord, camry, contour (my case), or even an older mustang/camaro/firebird) that they pay, in part, for. Let me explain how my parents do it:

98 Contour was purchased in 5/99. I turned 16 in 9/99. My dad had the car until 5/00; after I turned 16 but before the summer break the next summer, my dad had it in the days (I was forced to ride in with friends who had cars) and I had it in the evenings. When he got his replacement car that summer, I started paying for the Contour. I pay $200/mo to my parents, which includes a portion of car payment, gas, and insurnance.

So why is it a bad idea for students to have to pay for everything? First of all, if a student has to buy everything more than likely the car they will get will be extremely old, high milage, and not safe. What prompted me to write this was the death of two people I know who, if they had been in an adequtely safe (air bags, impact protection) vehicle they would have survived. Furthermore, if a student has to pay for everything than that means he will be working a ton, and having no extracurricular activites. Work time means no study time or time for athletics, volutneering, or things that look good for a college application. When you are working 30 hours a week then you obviously can't be taking many AP classes and this in turn will cost you MORE for college and it could hurt your chances at getting accepted. Working for $7 or $8 an hour as a teenager just to pay off your car isn't worth the difference between getting into a top state school and a community college. I am not saying it would happen, I'm saying that a student who has to buy everything as a teenager may underachieve simply because of lack of time. Unfortuanately that lost time now could hurt your GPA and acceptance into a college, and the difference ten years down the line will be considerably more than the 30 hours a week worked at $7 an hour.
 

axelfox

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
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I think its up to the parents to assess the situation. Each situation is different. Some kids are mature and intelligent enough to know the value of money (be it working or not) while in high school. Now, there are some who don't know, and that is why they make them pay for it. Others, it seems, that they can't afford another car or need assistance to pay for it (ie kid).

I think having the kid pay for part of it is a good idea. Teaches kids to manage their money and the consequences if they don't pay their insurance bill :).

I see your point though. I got a beater car, and I played sports in HS which took tons of my time (including honors/AP classes). I didn't care, it just got me around town. I wouldn't have had the time for a job. Some other guys I knew worked and played sports, adn I didn't know how they juggled it (Found out later that they exactly were in the "honors" classes, if you know what I mean).

Rant on...
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
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I agree with you. My "bill" to my parents + my casual entertainment expenses (dinner at Chiles, an occasional movie, Starbucks once a week) is enough to require me to work 10-12 hrs/week and then full-time on my spring break; it also is not too much to require me to sacrifice a lot of my activities and classes to pay for something that just loses value./
 

kaiotes

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2000
1,816
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yes i understand u completely, i didn't get my car til i was in college, parents money too.
best way maybe a loan pay parents back after u get job after college?
if u have car w/o air (and i still don't) take more caution in driving the car, hard for teenagers (i'm 19)...
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
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I agree that would work much better. It's easier to pay for a car working 50 hours a week after a B.S than it is to work 30 hours a week @ barely above minimum wage + 30 hours of school
 

Lily27

Senior member
Dec 24, 2000
510
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A BAD solution to this problem (nevermind its not a solution at all) can be what my mom did to me. In high school she just told me that i would need to get a scholarship for college and she would buy me a car when i started college. I didn't work in high school but pretty much played all the sports i could and worked fairly hard in school, enough to get a scholarship. As i enter college i'm naturally expecting that car having fulfilled my part of the deal. she then simply says, well good job, ur out of the house now, you can work part time and buy yourself a nice car :) isn't that just the sweetest thing a mother can do.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
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What a bitch, Lily...

When I was a Freshman my dad told me that if through scholorships he could get me through college on less than $10k a year I'd get a nice $18k or so car when I graduated HS. As it gets closer I think he "forgets" that he made that deal with me.

I'd like a prelude...not gonna happen though
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
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Elemental007...

Not all parents can afford to purchase their children a vehicle, pay for insurance, gas, etc. For most people, having a car is not a necessity, if it's that important to the teen they can get it themselves. Yes, they'll be driving POS's for a while. But goddamn will they appreciate their first nice vehicle.

Your safety argument is not valid, people did just fine before air bags. Yes, an airbag & advanced safety systems are definitely a good thing. But if what can be afforded is a mid 80's Civic, there's nothing wrong with that. I know a 16 year old who rolled his 1984 Accord at somewhere around 90 mph. Went off a road, upside down in a ditch, & rightside up again off the road. He survived with nothing but bruises. If driven responsibly, there is nothing unsafe about a properly maintained high-mileage, 15 year old vehicle.

Did my parents give me a car? Yes. A 1983 Toyota Tercel with ~220,000 miles. Worth $300 if it had a full tank plus a case of oil sitting in the back. I hated it. My first car that I purchased myself is my 1989 Accord DX. I like that car, & I have a lot more respect for it since I bought it myself & I pay all associated costs.

Viper GTS
 

Valhalla1

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
8,678
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oh boy, here we go...

elemental my man, I'm gonna have to disagree with you wholeheartedly on this one.

let me tell you my situation.. when I turned 16, I was working at a sh!t fast food job for like $6 an hour/30hrs a week. I also was on the football team, which practiced week days 1:00-5/6:00 pm, of course friday nights was game night.. anyway this only left me a few hours to work each day. but I did it anyway.

my father told me to get a job when I turned 15, and I did.. and from that day, I immediately became financially independent of my father. I payed for everything, including my first car when I turned 16. If anyone read the "what was your first/worst car" thread, you'd know that my car was the biggest POS in three state. :eek:

but it was my f*cking car, dammit, and I paid for it, the insurance, the gas, my clothes, food, and everything else. this instilled in me a sense of pride, understanding and appreciation for money. It also made me into a very driven person to succeeed.. I didn't have things handed to me free, so I had an urge to work harder and better jobs to make more money for myself since no one was giving me sh!t, I had to get it myself.

that is what led to me today, working 2 (really 3) jobs, 40-50+ hours/wk, also putting myself through college full time.. I have an appreciation for success and money, and confidence in my future.. I have rich friends whose parents give them $50 here and there for food or entertainment money, they bought the cars, they pay for the gas card, they pay the insurance.. and those guys are gonna be screwed when they step into real life.






<<
So why is it a bad idea for students to have to pay for everything? First of all, if a student has to buy everything more than likely the car they will get will be extremely old, high milage, and not safe.
>>


perhaps, perhaps not.. a relatively late model car with safety amenities can be had relatively cheap these days.



<< Furthermore, if a student has to pay for everything than that means he will be working a ton, and having no extracurricular activites. Work time means no study time or time for athletics, volutneering, or things that look good for a college application. >>


I had no problem starting on the football team, power lifting team, being a straight A, National Honors Society student (and all the volunteer work that is mandatory for this) and working part time in high school. I know friends who are very successful at a college age who did the same thing.. I also have bum friends whose parents paid for it all who are still living at home and mooching off daddy.




<< When you are working 30 hours a week then you obviously can't be taking many AP classes and this in turn will cost you MORE for college and it could hurt your chances at getting accepted. >>


How can you make this assumption? All I took was AP and Honors/Advanced classes in high school.. &quot;time management&quot; is your friend



I laugh at friends who have everything paid for.. and you saying its jealousy is just a cop-out.. I'm not jealous by a long shot! Hell, by working hard, and advancing my knowledge on the side in IT and computer networking, it allowed me to make the kind of money at 19 years old that will afford me cars and things that none of my friends who mooch from daddy are driving. In fact, I think they should be jealous of the hard-working, driven people who don't have things handed to them, because they are the ones succeeding and not sitting on their ass.



 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
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Viper -

I'd figured you'd be one to respond to this. :) Don't take this the wrong way - but look at where you live. If I remember it is in rural Oregon, correct? Compare that to a close suburb to a sprawling metropolis, like I live. What is the insurnace on your Accord? One of my friends has a blue 89 Accord - I'm willing to bet he pays 3 times what you do. My parents are paying about $2500 a year for my and that's not too far from the bare minimum on liability, and on their plan. Your highest cost where I live is your insurance, not your car. From talking with Vahalla1, I pay TWICE what he pays for his Camaro, all do to political location. And contrary to what you think it *is* a necessity to own a car. I dare say that you physically cannot work without a car, at least where I live. Unless you happen to be along one of the few DART Light Rail lines, you'd have to rely on the DART bus system - and anyone that tried to rely on it would not have a job for long given DART's &quot;timely&quot; bus schedule.

Unfortunately not all people are as lucky as your friend was. My cousin's best friends were killed when they hit head-on at 40 mph in an 88 Olds...if they had air bags and properly designed bumpers and crush zones they would have survived. Of course their parents drove new luxury cars, but tried to teach their kids the meaning of money. Now they have no son. Unfortunately roof support has not changed much in the last two decades (it's a physically much simpler design than frontal collisions), so your example, while valid, does not relate to the issue at hand.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
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I pay roughly $2,000 a year for insurance.

Having a car may be a necessity if you work, but working is not a necessity. The parents' responsibility is to provide food &amp; shelter, &amp; an education. A car, a job, spending money, etc. are to be earned. When my parents gave me my first car, it was a necessity. I was not in school, so I had to have a full time job. That $300 POS got me to &amp; from work for 9 months before I wrecked it. I paid my insurance, gas, tires, having the brake rotors replaced &amp; turned, etc, etc, etc.

I am not trying to discount the advances in safety that have been made in this decade, nor am I trying to excuse the tragedy that is a child dying. I'm saying that millions of people drove and are driving those vehicles that you deem unsafe, &amp; are perfectly fine. Are newer vehicles safer? Yes. Can everybody afford them? No.

Personally, I do intend to provide my children with their first vehicle. It will be something along the lines of what I'm driving now. After that they are on their own. If they screw it up, it's their responsibility to get it fixed, replace it, or whatever.

Viper GTS
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
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Val -
<In a Lumberg voice from Office Space> I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with you there...hmmm yea...</voice>

Where to start...let's see. First of all, Viper's situation was much like yours. Look at cost of living. Remember our insurance discussion? Yup, my Contour is $2500/year, cheapest I could find for my area.



<< let me tell you my situation.. when I turned 16, I was working at a sh!t fast food job for like $6 an hour/30hrs a week. I also was on the football team, which practiced week days 1:00-5/6:00 pm, of course friday nights was game night.. anyway this only left me a few hours to work each day. but I did it anyway. >>



Yup, much like my situation. Except, take Lacrosse. And the fact that it's NOT school sponsored == practice from 7 to 10 == physically impossible to work on days I have practice. That would be, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday evenings, and saturday mornings from 10-12. Of course I work Saturdays from 2-9:30, too. When am I supposed to work? Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday? Yup, already do.



<< but it was my f*cking car, dammit, and I paid for it, the insurance, the gas, my clothes, food, and everything else. this instilled in me a sense of pride, understanding and appreciation for money. It also made me into a very driven person to succeeed.. I didn't have things handed to me free, so I had an urge to work harder and better jobs to make more money for myself since no one was giving me sh!t, I had to get it myself. >>



And you assume that I don't have that apprection or motivation? I was working IT jobs when I was 14. What have I done with that money? Invest it. I've more or less broke even now but it was doing good for a while there...Now, as a 17 year old, I have a working knowledge of the basics of an AS/400 architecture, network interoperability, and specialized LAMBS accounting software. Oh, let's not forget NT4 server farms...and of course the standard NT WS/Win2k Pro. I worked every damn day my last three summers. Hell I didn't even take a vacation the last two, so I could work and get money. I sat inside an office when my friends were sitting poolside. Fair? No. But do I have that pride? Yes. And I have at 17 more or less what you have at 19.



<< that is what led to me today, working 2 (really 3) jobs, 40-50+ hours/wk, also putting myself through college full time.. I have an appreciation for success and money, and confidence in my future.. I have rich friends whose parents give them $50 here and there for food or entertainment money, they bought the cars, they pay for the gas card, they pay the insurance.. and those guys are gonna be screwed when they step into real life. >>



And I totally agree with you. My parents NEVER hand me money. I have the money myself and the brains to go with it. I feel much more confident in my IT skills than anyone else at my 1800 person school. I'm set.



<< perhaps, perhaps not.. a relatively late model car with safety amenities can be had relatively cheap these days. >>



Define cheap in this context. Then define cheap as a high school student. They won't be equal. 94 was the first year to require dual air bags.



<< I laugh at friends who have everything paid for.. and you saying its jealousy is just a cop-out.. I'm not jealous by a long shot! Hell, by working hard, and advancing my knowledge on the side in IT and computer networking, it allowed me to make the kind of money at 19 years old that will afford me cars and things that none of my friends who mooch from daddy are driving. In fact, I think they should be jealous of the hard-working, driven people who don't have things handed to them, because they are the ones succeeding and not sitting on their ass. >>



Couldn't agree with you more there. I'm in the same boat. Only I've been doing IT long before you were, assuming our ages were equal. And I'm not even out of HS.

My point is that you can still work and be motivated without being burdened by debt as a high schooler. Let's take your 83 Celica. What if you had gotten into an accident? Would you have survived? Or would you have ended up like my cousin's friends. All I'm saying is that students forced to buy everything are putting themselves at risk, in this case.

And I would like to hear your time management breakdown. Of course the biggest difference betwen your schedule and mine is that you could work on the nights you had athletics; I can't, simply because of the timings. Think about it.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
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Viper -

For the moment I'm doing to not respond to your last post, with the exception of one quote.



<< I'm saying that millions of people drove and are driving those vehicles that you deem unsafe, &amp; are perfectly fine. Are newer vehicles safer? Yes. Can everybody afford them? No >>


OK so the student can't afford them, but the parents can. Note that I am not talking your case, but rather the people I know personally. Their parents have the money to buy them a safe car. But they won't because they are trying to teach spending. I had a friend driving a 91 sable that among other things had an ignitition that would randomly turn off while driving (dangerous) and a passenger door that would swing open on left turns (more dangerous). His parents drove a Camry and a Lexus. They finally got rid of the death trap (as we nicknamed it) this past week when he flat-out refused to drive it for fear of his life.
 

Valhalla1

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
8,678
0
76
Okay, so you make the money, have the jobs, then what are you waiting for? buy a car.

you said you didn't blow all the money, therefore you should have enough to buy any damed car you please, and you'll appreciate the car a lot more if you buy it than if daddy does.
 

If you live downtown in a large city, a car is not a necessity at all.
I just used my parents cars until I bought my first 2 years ago.
Its nice to own a car, but its RAPE on the wallet.
But I would rather earn it myself, then have my parents give it to me.
In extreme cases, like in high school, that car can be used as a tool against you.
Which is rather sad, but in reality they own that car.
Now when your name is on that title and the insurance is addressed to you.
Then well, you can tell anyone to kiss your a$$.
The idea of kids having more time for extra cirricular activities is good.
But everything can be managed in. And I think that having to go to school and work your a$$ off is a more accurate dipiction of real life.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
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<< Okay, so you make the money, have the jobs, then what are you waiting for? buy a car. >>



Unfortunately I work my desk job for a grand total of about two months a year. About six weeks for summer vacation; a few days on my fall and spring break and maybe one or two days on my Winter break (since we go on vacation as a family back home every winter break).

That is no way enough time to pay for a new car. Enough to cover some stuff, but not a new car and the expenses to go with it.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
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Sammy -

Unfortunately I don't like in the downtown of a large city. Somehow if I could afford that a car wouldn't be a big issue. And where I am public transportation in suburbs leaves much to be desired.

Therefore a car is required.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
I had a friend driving a 91 sable that among other things had an ignitition that would randomly turn off while driving (dangerous) and a passenger door that would swing open on left turns (more dangerous).

Note that I said properly maintained. Age does not make a car inherently dangerous. If a parent is going to provide ANYTHING, it needs to be in good mechanical condition. If they subscribe to the other theory, &amp; require their children to purchase their own vehicles, then they need to set a requirement for mechanical condition. Driving a &quot;deathtrap&quot; is dangerous, driving an older car is not.

Viper GTS
 

Valhalla1

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
8,678
0
76
well heres what I think..

I think that deep down you are disappointed that you are going to have to have your father pay for most/some/all of your car and expenses, and are just trying to rationalize it and make yourself feel better about it.

what if you did this..

make an agreement with your dad, that he is giving you a loan for the car. make it official, write it up and both sign it.

and when you do have the time, like in the summer, to work more hours, then you can make payments to your dad to repay him for the car.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
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Viper -



<< Note that I said properly maintained. Age does not make a car inherently dangerous. If a parent is going to provide ANYTHING, it needs to be in good mechanical condition. If they subscribe to the other theory, &amp; require their children to purchase their own vehicles, then they need to set a requirement for mechanical condition. Driving a &quot;deathtrap&quot; is dangerous, driving an older car is not. >>



I couldn't agree with you more. Although, I don't think that a faulty ignition and a loose door are signs of poor maintenance; it is the sign of a car that is past it's prime. For Hondas it's about 200,000 miles; in this case it was about 90,000.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Although, I don't think that a faulty ignition and a loose door are signs of poor maintenance; it is the sign of a car that is past it's prime.

Maintenance means fixing things like that when they happen. It's really no different than alignment, brakes, etc.

Viper GTS
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
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<< I think that deep down you are disappointed that you are going to have to have your father pay for most/some/all of your car and expenses, and are just trying to rationalize it and make yourself feel better about it. >>



Becoming a pysch major now, Val? That must be some double major you have going on there! Please don't analyze me. You don't know me, don't try to make an assumption on my life without knowing me as a person. I got pissed off when my girlfriend of two years and friend since elementary school used to try to analyze me. I still said to her that SHE didn't know me. Obviously, you don't.



<< make an agreement with your dad, that he is giving you a loan for the car. make it official, write it up and both sign it.

and when you do have the time, like in the summer, to work more hours, then you can make payments to your dad to repay him for the car.
>>



Actually this is going on now. I will owe him some &quot;make up&quot; money come summer; how much has not been determined.
 

HAhah nice.
Well, hey, thats life in the 'burbs man.
When you live on your own, you don't live in the burbs. :D
Little too pricey.
But lots of kids get assistance from their parents.
I don't know why middle class or upper middle class kids would feel bad about taking things from their parents. They have been doing it their entire lives, what makes it different with a car?
I say, take the car if its the only way you can swing it.
Forget about people being bitter that your not on your feet at 19, heh

 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
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<< Although, I don't think that a faulty ignition and a loose door are signs of poor maintenance; it is the sign of a car that is past it's prime.

Maintenance means fixing things like that when they happen. It's really no different than alignment, brakes, etc.
>>



Actually the ignition was a recall that was made in California but not honored in Texas. Ford bastards.